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Try Romancing SaGa: Ministrel Song and you'll see what's "worst griding".
What's 'ideal team' to you?
And it's way better than just hit the attack button and see lvls goes up...
On the contrary, not only is it exactly as I've said, my comment isn't superficial at all. FAQs for the ideal outcomes have suggested this strategy.
The best team for combat obviously. What did you think I meant? I don't level up my team to see how weak they can get. I level them up to get them strong.
Very superficial comment. In this game, for the most part you just level down. While it might be cool to some people like yourself, for people like me, when my level goes up I expect an actual benefit.
If you play smart you have already leveled up/grinded.
I felt they hinted at the opposite. Before you graduate you're evaluated by how well you performed on a mission. One of the categories to evaluate your performance is how much monsters you've killed. The more, the better.
Furthermore Seifer tells you to let him have the last strike on monsters so he can get the lion's share of EXP so he can level up to get stronger.
Heck, even the tutorial system encourages you to visit the training ground. Nowhere does it discourage you from grinding even though that might be the worst thing you can do.
They NEVER hint that killing monsters will make you weaker, but that is certainly the case.
No, if you play smart you DON'T level up or grind. If you play smart you get seifer to kill you so he can level up your GFs without leveling up you.
You're literally going off of what you read online. I had to do the testing myself, using a save file editor. Enemys magic scales with your level, their strength/ health, and so on, does not.
Further more, what your saying makes no sense. I've never run into any of the problems your describing in any of my 15 playthoughs of this game lol
"In order to get an ideal team you must avoid and run from battles constantly and transform creatures into cards."
What??? You can literally grind any of the characters to be what you want them to be through stat + abilitys from GF's.
"At one point in the game you need to make your own rival knock you and your other companion out to prevent yourself from gaining exp while he levels up constantly grinding guardian forces for AP and cash."
Dude what game are you playing lol? I have, NEVER, had to do this, ever, and i've done everything from beat the game with as little grind as possible, to being lvl 100 before the end of disk 1.
"Effectively this system means you don't level up. You level down and need to take advantage of stupid flaws and loopholes in the system to be at an ideal level.
Name the stupid flaws and loopholes please. Im genuinely curious to see how you're so bad at this game haha
FYI, all final fantasy have pretty much given you the option to over grind if you want too. Look at 15 for example, the sleeping at Inns for an XP multiplier can allow you to mega over grind making the game a walk in the park, if you want too that is.
lol. You really didn't know this?
https://www.neoseeker.com/finalfantasy8/faqs/126925-final-fantasy-viii-max-stats-girlwithpigtail.html
Your base stats don't go higher than 50. Even when you get to level 100 with the best weapon in the game, your base strength won't be higher than 78. To get AP for your GFs to get higher stats you'd need to have Seifer and other temp characters knock you out.
To compare, a G soldier
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/G-Soldier#Stats
His base stats at level 1 are 45 hp and the rest no greater than 5.
His lvl 100 stats are 3040 hp ~75 STR and MAG and about 10 everywhere else.
I've already described the flaws, I hope I managed to teach you a thing or two about the game.
The fact that you played the game so much and never noticed this is very telling about you.
Also, yes, enemies do level up alongside you. Seriously check the wiki.
What im trying to say is, why WOULD you play the game this way lol?? I've never been less than all lvl 100 before defeating ultimica, and have always been able to get max stats on characters just by leveling up, using bonus abilities, and junctioning / grinding magic.
The fact that you would play this game in this confusing, somewhat broken manner, is very telling about you lol.
I think I already explained that part. I'm not the only one too. Perhaps you should reread what I said about ideal stats.
No... You didn't get "max stats." If you even level up 1 time without massive junctions you got a lower version of max stats because you didn't do the method on the previously linked guide. I shouldn't have to explain this to you again.
First you said you did some testing and implied what I said was wrong. Then after proving it correct you backtrack and insult me for making an ideal party by the games battle system. Can't you just get over it? It's the holidays, just admit you were wrong and shut up.
However, if you do want to play for the easiest game possible, then this fantastic game offers you a unique system to be the most powerful you can be at the cost of some clever use of game mechanics instead of mindless grinding. Nowhere, except for the achievement, is it stated that you are prohibited from gaining ANY exp and levels.
And to be fair, I was 11 when I first got through this game, fresh from FF7 and the only thing I knew was that higher level meant stronger characters. And at 11, I beat both Omega and Ultimecia at level 100. If you in any way, shape or form struggle with this game, it is not because of the leveling system.
Also, at level 100 many bosses are given level caps to prevent them from being too hard. Showing off winning against a boss with a level cap at 65 is not that impressive.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ultimecia_(boss)
And granted Omega scales into 100, but his primary damage stats (STR and MAG) stop growing after level 40. He just gets more hp. His lowered returns mean he doesn't scale as well.
This is the one FF that actually works without needing a certain level to get past a certain area. You sound like your min-maxing which is your choice, you dont need to do any of that at all to complete the game, if you havent been levelling you dont even need high junctioned magic to beat the last boss or area.. Hell even if you level up and only use GFs (which i did my first time playing it), youll still be able to beat the game with just casting GFs lol, with no issues.
Also if you get the Str,mag,vit bonus abilities you actually become much much stronger as you level up than the enemies do.
GFs are stupidly strong in this game. That's another criticism I put in my review. Not only do they offer you insane protection, but they can be cast repeatedly.
I think they were most likely included to sell the GF dolls they marketed with this game.
Granted you don't need to min/max but doing it means having to work around a broken grinding system. Ever since I found out about it the game has felt like a drag because I feel the need to run from everything.
Don't get me wrong, the graphics are pleasing judging by the ps1 era, the characters are memorable but that doesn't excuse the overall broken gameplay from GFs to grinding.
The intent is to keep enemies in earlier/easy areas relevant to the player when they revisit those areas later on as well as to prevent the party from easily over leveling and completely outpacing the enemies to maintain a suitable balance. While you can get a few perks to gain X stat and stuff on level the leveling system for raw stats is mainly meant to have the enemies keep up with you. There are some caps for a few bosses at some points for various balance purposes, but the general idea is to have the player never totally outpace bosses.
To better support this the enemy level is based on the average of the three currently active heroes so if you swap out weaker characters it will not punish you heavily for this and supports using other characters.
Further, as you progress it acts as lever onto the GF junction system which is your primary way of growing stronger in the game both in terms of story and actual gameplay. The higher level you are the higher level enemies are and thus the higher ranking magic they carry to draw from them.
Understanding the game's mechanics in detail will, of course, allow an experienced veteran to completely trump the system by gaining cards and mod abilities to reach outrageous performance stats regardless of level such as instant death on normal attacks at the start of the game or even 9999 damage and 6-8k HP for easy safe limit break spam. This is an advanced system treat for those who invest in learning these mechanics and the locations of what you need to achieve various efforts (such as specific rare cards), typically not first time through players. The system has no way to keep up with at veteran, though, but it is arguably the most balanced of any FF system to date if not for uber junction setups and the one big flaw of infinite limit break spam.
For a first time through player you don't need to be dying to prevent exp, just level and as you and the enemy level up you get more magic and upon properly junctioning will easily keep pace with enemies. If you struggle it is because you did not junction properly or use the correct strategies in combat. There is really no need to prevent leveling because both sides grow stronger. In theory, the highest peak of battle performance would be you at lowest possible level with the highest end junction setup but in practice this doesn't translate to reality because of instant death on attack, the amount of damage you can do with limit break spam, meltdown status effect, etc. will allow even a level 100 enemies to drop like flies against a top tier junction setup, and honestly even a only half decent setup as long as they have some semblance of what they are doing.
Incorrect, leveling up actually provides stronger magic to draw and junction which drastically boosts performance. Higher tier magic far outstrips level scaling when properly junctioned so the players should be consistently a bit or a lot ahead of enemies when leveling. The smartest way for first time players or those not abusing card mod system is to simply level at a normal progression rate through the story, with a bit of minor grinding on the side for AP as needed. The system doesn't want you to overgrind but you are not penalized for it, but rewarded with better magic. The only time it is considered as you becoming weaker in contrast to enemy growth is specifically when you use card/mod abilities to achieve uber stats hitting a peak early where enemies then start growing while you don't significantly past that point, because you are already sitting near the peak of performance. Enemies getting stronger at that point isn't an issue, either, because they can never match a high end setup.
Not quite. You can boost base stats via stat bonus upon level abilities.
Example Str bonus +1 str per level: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Strength%2B
Also for the entire list see: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VIII_support_abilities
In addition, you can use Str Up and similar items to permanently boost it continuing until you hit the max without any junction needed: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VIII_items#Str_Up
There are also % stat boosting abilities you can equip that work regardless of junction setup: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Stat-enhancing_ability
Literally irrelevant, because if you have actually ever played anywhere near higher end stats you will know max stats is totally pointless because you can walk all over everything already. A true optimal setup is truly pointless in this game as even a properly setup mid-game disc 2 setup + Meltdown can dumpster anything you come across (not even talking card + mod abilities used, but a first time normal progression player). I'm guessing you haven't tried it though as this is pretty obvious based on your post. You talk about having to die to prevent leveling because of difficulty increase but that isn't a problem at all. You also talk about getting weaker with high end stats like that matters but anyone who has played at level 100 or higher levels with proper junctions know it is totally meaningless because you become so strong it really doesn't matter what level the enemy is.
Once again proving you haven't actually done any of this because you would have known that a level 7 party can walk over ANYTHING. We are talking complete total Steamroll. If that party is level 100 with the exact same proper junction setup they wont even notice it basically because the difficulty doesn't increase hardly at all, but their stats barely climbed if you didn't boost their stats growth.
You simply misunderstand and think leveling is supposed to always strictly strengthen the player over the enemies and that they shouldn't be able to get stronger or stay relevant but that is a pretty bad mindset that only results in horrible balance. In FF8's case the intent is mainly for junctioning to be your power growth while the leveling system exists merely to fine tune balance on multiple fronts to prevent it from dipping too easy or too difficult (tho in the face of extreme junctioning veterans it fails to retain a challenge for obvious reasons).
False. GF's are actually hyper weak in this game. In fact, summons are a bane in battle in all FF games as every FF game has other ways to play that are simply far more efficient than using summons. The sole exception is using KotoR after paralyzing Ruby Weapon in FF7 as that was an intended design strategy, the primary way to defeat him by devs and is part of Ruby's AI even.
They are fine as a protective means but that is never necessary because you can get decently high HP, protect, shell, you can blind enemies, silence them, get invincible status (Holy War/etc.), heal all to mitigate damage. Mostly though... you can outright kill everything in 1-2 turns, and the more critical your character's health is the more powerful they become allowing infinite limit break spam and the most powerful versions of their limit breaks (allowing even Omega Weapon to be 1-shot, for instance).
Typical attacks come out faster and do high damage at a higher DPS rate then GF's can output. You can also junction instant death, spam limit breaks even without crazy junction stats, and use double/triple magic. The only good thing about GF's is the ability to soak damage but that isn't actually relevant anywhere except Omega Weapon, to which there are strictly far better methods to do this as well.
I can understand why the system baffles you but you are merely misunderstanding it and, in the process, very very wrong.
EDIT: Also, if you want to know the worst grind ever check the PS1 title Legend of Legaia where there are several spots first time players generally are considered to need to grind for literal hours (talking 2-5 hour grinds) just to tackle a boss and it happens several times throughout. For more versed veterans of the game it is much more doable but there are a few tight spots that even players on subsequent playthroughs can seriously struggle with or be forced to grind unless they truly know certain mechanics of some bosses and certain OP methods.