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The first game focused on Lara becoming a badass. It followed an emotionally satisfying hero's journey arc. The second game just had her being a badass, and it's a missed opportunity. A more introspective story, where Lara comes to grips with the fact that she is a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ scary person, would have suited better. And I don't think that it would have been difficult to tweak the story to include those sentiments.
This game needed more of Lara being like "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I kill a lot of people," Jonah being like "I am a little worried about how good you are at killing," Jacob being like "I made a bunch of people into unstoppable killers once... It never works out," Sophie like "teach me to kill like you do," and Trinity going from "eh, it's just one woman" to being more scared of her than they are of the deathless.
You might be onto something there. With 2013 TR I felt more engaged with the characters aswell as the story, the whole game just felt great and played even better. I don't feel the same way with ROTR though. Maybe Iam exaggerating, but I really think the ROTR storyline is plain horrible. It just looses it's way right after the first few chapters...it's like the devs stopped caring for the main storyline half way through the game, to me it feels forced and tacked on. What's more troubling the whole gameplay suffers because of it. Tomb Raider 2013 was just better in so many aspects.
I agree with this, especially Shadowhope's quote. The story of Rise is off, and they lost track of the very nice character development of Lara they had set up in the first game. If I were going for story alone, I would say Tomb Raider 2013 is the better game; however, I do believe Rise (gameplay wise) has many good improvements and is the better game in that aspect. The additional game modes Rise has (Score Attack, Endurance, Cold Darkness, etc) are excellent and much better than the poorly designed multiplayer we got with Tomb Raider 2013, and those 3 game modes can easily be transfered to the next game, even if it ends up in South America like the tease suggested: Score Attack is very easily transfered and improvements can be made, Endurance can easily be transfered if you change the "Warmth meter" into a "Water meter", and Cold Darkness can find it's own variation in the jungle.
Overall, they need to set up some improvements for the next game (some for all difficulties, others maybe just Survivor):
1. Focus back on the story now that you have excellent gameplay modes that you can continue to improve upon.
2. Return to developing Lara's character from the whitewashed "ralatable" Lara back into a strong, unique personality Tomb Raider. That's the biggest insult they have done.
3. Give the next game a NewGame+ system instead of Chapter Replay (Elite). Have everything transfer into the new game (outfits, weapons, upgrades, special ammunition, gear (inventory bags), etc) except for skills/attribute points, which would reset to allow for a new class/build for the new playthrough, greatly adding to replayability of the main campaign (see #5).
4. Remove the "signposting": I mean the "white" climbable rock walls, white painted ledge grabs, all rope arrows stands having ropes, etc. They are practically glowing and beyond easy to spot, and Survival Instincts "glowing yellow" isn't helping either. Remove the glowing white so they naturally blend in and make people think and search, especially on Survivor, it would make exploration more rewarding. Limit Survival Instincts, perhaps just to certain game modes. Remove the UI prompts on higher difficulties, I know Lara is picking up a healing herb or tree wood.
5. Split up the skill trees into "classes" or "builds" rather than the current setup: you have a few "basic, all-round" skills, then you get to the point where you have to "focus" your skills into a "class/build", and once you choose a "class/build" you cannot take it back until you "finish" the game and restart with NewGame+. Examples of classes/builds: Commando (focuses on open combat, no stealth skills, only "class" with rifle/shotguns available as "skills"), Hunter (best bows in game, especially natural ones, "some" stealth abilities, given traps of all kinds), and Stealth (no good spotted, only class that can "sneak" through without killing anyone, only class allowed silencers, best pistols in-game). Other classes/builds can be added. Also, give a separate "attribute" tree, where you can apply points to different things like strength, dexerity, stamina, etc allowing Lara to gain muscle tone (strength) - which would actually show on Lara's model - just increase bow damage/hold time, dexerity for better dodge maneuvers and sneaking (stealth), and stamina to allow her to run longer (#6).
6. Make the meters from Endurance manditory for all aspects of the game, including the main campaign. The food meter would make hunting down food/animals much more meaningful. Warmth meter (or water meter in warm climates) would be more realistic and definately add the "survivor" feel, adjusted for each map, and a stamina meter for how long Lara can run (it's ridiculous that she can run forever without passing out). The Stamina meter can turn into an air meter underwater.
7. Instead of combat difficulty altering the damage ratios of how much damage you and the enemies do (it's such a cop-out difficulty change), have it alter other things: number of enemy troops, quality of enemy weapons, "special" ammo counts (grenades and their quality and such), armor level, communication skills, sophisication of tactical maneuvers, and so on.
8. Have only the very rare, story-reasoned "forced" combat encounters, where they are the only ones the enemy "automatically" knows you're there. Otherwise, perhaps have multiple points of entry into combat, one better for Commando Lara (open combat) or another allowing Lara to not alert all enemies and perhaps sneak through without killing, but it's longer and more difficult.
9. Have the map remain under "fog" until you've explored the area. Have no documents, relics, artifacts, and other important collectibles appear on the "tab" map (even if you stare at them at one point) until you find the archevist map. the map can be your "I cannot find this last document" save, where survival instincts can still reveal it all to you afterwards.
10. Add underwater tombs (some mandatory), so Lara can explore underwater without a re-breather. Make it so you have to think on your timing underwater, what order to do things, and if you think you can advance without running out of air (air meter from #6).
Those are just examples, I have more.
That is the problem, the gameplay isn’t all that interesting or engaging either. There is nothing pulling your thourgh to get to the end of the game, at least it was for me. I played the game in short game sessions for over 2 months…I just couldn’t be bothered with finishing the game, the gameplay felt too repetitive, the enemie AI was laughably bad and the “stealth” felt tacked on. Everything just felt not good with this game. I personally don’t care about those boring endurance or horde modes. Iam all about the single player game with great storyline.
1. Yes the focus on the story is essential, however they must improve the gameplay aswell. I don’t know what it is but the shooting in this game feels off and just not enjoyable at all.
2. I kind of liked the scared Lara in TR 2013 and how she developed into a fearfless Lara throughout. In Rise of TR it started off great, but then the character development just went completely out of the window somewhow…
3. Hmm, the only game I remember playing again that had this new game+ was The Last of Us, I remember playing through it multiple times on various difficulty settings. I don’t think it would work at all in TR game, especially when you have all the equipment leveled up like in ROTR
4. This is something I would really love to have in this game, I hate all these kind of features that are meant for one thing only, to hold your hand through the entire game, just remove it from the game completely or at least have it as an option that you can enable or disable.
5. This is another good idea, although I don’t really care much for this kind of character leveling up, I though it was done right in the TR 2013 reboot. In ROTR it felt a bit overwhelming, especially at the start, some of the skills were completely useless aswell…
6. No. The whole idea of this is just bad, it’s a single player story driven game, not some survival early access crappy “game”.
7. Another great example is The Last of Us when it comes to the difficulty settings, where one shot to the head means death to you but it also means a death to the enemy aswell, I think that is how it should be done when it comes to the highest difficulty.
8. This is the thing, the game’s stealth mechanics feel artificial and sometimes it even feels like there is no other way but to go all gun-ho. I don’t think it would work great if the devs made a stealth game out of tomb raider.
9. That is a good idea and it would be fantastic if you could discover a treasure map where the treasures/documents/relics would be marked on the map as a sort of puzzle, something similar they did with the gold in Red Dead Redemption.
10. I thought some of the optional tombs were designed almost to perfection when it comes to art design, they all felt very different to each other and were awesome to explore, I especially liked the frozen ship. I think there was an underwater tomb in ROTR, I think there were two of those actually.
I'm not. I'm just listing some of the "recommended" changes I came up with for Mato1987 so I could get his opinion. You're referencing my own posts in other threads. I think it's going to move in a positive direction and am looking foward to it.
It's the way they had to balance the weapons probably. That's why I suggested #5, at least when it's "unique" to a "class" you're a little more inclined to try it.
My comment about work on the story was because I believe they focused so much times on the additional game modes they almost forgot the story. They have a good basis for both, now take your time and fix the issue with both.
I agree, on both. I've been discussing with shs in the "best Tomb Raider to date" thread about how this could be explained, but it's all theory, as interesting as it is.
I respect this. Most others I have seen disagree with your view though. I think the equipment all being leveled up isn't going to break the game, especially if you have all your skills reset to try a brand new gameplay system. That would help.
Exactly. I was thinking that it would apply to the higher levels, like in Rise it would be Seasoned Raider and especially Survivor, as newcomers to the series might want the option to learn what to look for before they have to go find something that they aren't sure what it is. Although, you're turn it on/off idea would work as well, but I still think turning it "off" should be mandatory for Survivor difficulty (whatever it's called in the next game).
It think this would work better for Tomb Raider, especially given the strangest of the combat system. Tomb Raider 2013 had very few skills and there wasn't much to it. In Rise, there were too many skills and while some were more "useless" than others, it was more that their were too many and it makes combat too easy, even on Survivor. I think this would help that, and it would add much needed main campaign replayability, especially given your comments on the combat system.
I respect that, but you and I are going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not saying make it so you have to pause every 2 minutes and search for food or a fire. I'm saying since they are focusing so much on forging and surviving in the wild, why not take the next step?
They should add the stamina bar if nothing else, as Lara running forever without passing out is truly ridiculous. It would also make you pause and think about what you can accomplish after running for a while. You could miss a key jump. The air meter would only apply if my 10th suggestion is implimented, otherwise, the re-brether might as well return.
The food meter I still think is a good idea, as it would make hunting much more important. I can get enough fur from supply boxes and inside huts to cover my fur count. This way, the surviving the wild feels more real with needing to get meat every once in a while (not ever 2 minutes and in certain areas it might be disabled), but it would add to the realistic and already established survival aspects of the game.
The warmth/water one I have to admit is weak. But if they ever had another endurance mode for the next game, they all definately need to return for that.
Eaxctly. Agreed. Stop taking the laziest way through. Make it actually harder, rather than what truly amounts to cheating annoyance.
This game should be stealth, first and foremost. It feels like that kind of setup, at least to me, despite the stealth shortcomings. Remember, this is what the options are for. You could have a class that can never sneak through (open combat) and always fights in the open with no stealth, or you can actually do your best to sneak through, killing everyone without them realizing, or even sneaking through without killing anyone (which is missing from this game).
It would work, they just need to put the time and effort into it.
This is how it should have been in the first place. Also, you can find a "map" that reveals certain things to you in the map you're currently in. I'm suggesting this map is very, very well hidden and should display everything of note in the map, and completely remove the "fog". No early sneak peaks. If you find something, good, but no easy hand overs.
In art design, yes, I especially liked the Catacomb of Sacred Waters tomb. I forgot to add that some tombs should be mandatory, and I honestly think they should have multiple levels and if nothing else: make you pause and actually think about how to solve it. I means, seriously, the game is called Tomb Raider. You shouldn't play this game if you don't want to solve tombs or think about solving the puzzles.
Furthermore, some of the tombs have water in them, and some have water "access", but I'm talking about a tomb that is actually underwater, and you have to hold you're breath to see any of it. You have to solve the puzzle underwater, managing your air to even just look around, and finally, advancing through you need to think carefully if you have enough air to make it all the way through.
It was made up of almost no gameplay and entirely way too many QTE's (Quick Time Events) which to me, is not a game.
I think QTE make sense for certain parts of the game, but they shouldn't interfer with the pacing of the game.
They also need to decide on a simple means of letting you know a QTE is happening, and decide once and for all on either bashing the key or tapping the key... no switching off. No UI promts either, common sense should be enough.
Don't get me wrong, ROTTR is a very good game, but TR2013 is much better.
Just started the 2013 one again tonight in lovely 3440x1440.