Next Tomb Raider game: Could we go back to the old type of TR games please?

[Nihil]

This is only a wish....a preference...a hope for the future of TR! (not a troll post)
I'm curiouse how you guys feel. Especially the people who played and grew up on the old TR games. (without trolling again.)

For the nex Tomb Raider, could we go please back to the roots of Tomb Raider?

Long post coming!! For the main points about the differences of the new vs old TR games, scroll down!

I just started to replay the old TR games again because these games were one of my biggest gaming experiences back then. (apart from 1-2♥♥♥♥♥♥titles like Angel of Darkness)
And I have to say.....how strong I wanted and how hard I searched for the well known Tomb Raider feeling, I didn't found it in the last 2 reboots.

Well yes, we have to admit, the new Tomb Raider from 2013 was pretty awesome! It's a fantastic adventure game with a good story and with enough mysticism. (Well I can't say thet of Rise of the Tomb Raider....it was just a boring story boring gameplay open word adventure game)

And it was a nice move from Square Enix and Crystal Dynemics to please the femal gamer audience in the social justice aspect, so the game is more fitting into the current social acceptance treshold. And with that, also the feminist gamer society could get their requested changes. (I don't mean it in a sarcastic or negative way. I mean it in a literal fully objective way)

BUT!

The new games are not Tomb Raider games anymore and here is why the real Tomb Raider feeling is missing...which made the series great.
Here are the

bulletpoints:

- Lara: Lara is a bad♥♥♥♥♥Tomb Raider not an "average everyday girl". That's why we loved her, that's why also so many girl gamers made her as their favorite female protagonist. She never felt fear or regret or doubt. And she had always a cheeky or even badass comment to everything.

- Locations: Every game tooke place on a bunch of locations. It was so interesting to travel to the tropicals and than to the arctics or even into the desert of Nevada and all this in a single game. (The new game are taking place on the same location....it makes the game boring)

- Visuals: Every TR game had a specific visual artstyle. Yes it was blocky and triangular in texture, and with time, the graphics got more polished...but the artstyle stayed the same.

- Gameplay: Every Tomb Raider game was about raiding tombs, and not about survival. Every map was a tomb which had to be explored. With a bunch of puzzles, platforming sections and also combat where you had to fight with the natural dangers (not mainly with other people)

- Story:Every game had a very unique mystical story which was well written (again..apart from Angel of Darkness) Even the last 3 games had a connection, so it was basically a trilogy. And the story was awesome

- Maps and exploration: None of the games was open world. But that was the beacuty. Every map was precisely hand crafted where every mm of terrain or texture had a purpose. And I can still remember almost every map section of every game. (I can't even remember 1 from the new games and I replayed the 2013 version 2,5x)

Bonus: Lara's look. Let's admit, Lara looked awesome. The beauty of her was that she was so oversexualised, but because of her artstyle, she was not realistic at all and we all knew it that it's totally out of place.



Crystal Dynamics you know why the Tomb Raider series went down with the last games ( Annyversary and Underworld) ? Not because the people wanted more realism. It was because the games had so many bugs and technical issues.....they were almost unplayable sometimes.

[NGCHunter2]

Postat inițial de Jrpg Girl:

Whos trolling? you or me? a selfish kid who complain about optional feature that is really useful to other people. Just dont play this game kid, while i enjoy this

You are trolling, because you're giving the same and the same and the same old arguments which don't withstand a second. For it isn't optional; the game hints for you, with character dialogue/monologue or even text messages when you're looking for a puzzle solution instead of pressing Q right away. So you can't really play this game without it. So disabling it forever and designing the game in a way Survival Instincts wouldn't be needed or an option to turn those off is something useful for non-casual gamers or Tomb Raider fans. So it's not selfish to complain about a feature literally playing the game for you.
So if you enjoy this feature, be pleased, and there's no need to offend those of us who want to play the game on their own instead of getting it played.

[NoobMaster69]

Postat inițial de ShenWolf:

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

I guess just the outfit choices make her look overly slutty IMO.

Her top in 2013 was similar so it comes down to shorts I guess. Men also wear shorts. Her shorts are, well, shorter and tighter but she's just "sexy". What you choose to say makes you sound like you aren't used to or approve of women in shorts.

And if we're talking realism, I don't think her current clothes would do much better against getting hit, impaled and especially shot unless she's wearing kevlar or something.

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

a more realistic figure is more appealing to my taste

Well, take the 3D models of both reboot games, enlarge the boobs a bit and it would still be realistic because naturally big boobs do exist.

I think it comes down to how she's portrayed in the older games vs the new ones. Old games make a point of her looking like a sexy badass chick, new games focus more on her character, which I personally prefer.

Lets be honest- wearing a short top and thigh high shorts is far more impractical than wearing a winter jacket with a hood and long pants in most situations.

Also- don't take me the wrong way, I have no problem with women wearing shorts lol. I personally like it, but here I'm talking about Lara in particular and how they have portrayed the character in the old games.

My personal preference is the newer Lara. I like her character, looks, and outfit more... simple as that :)

Postat inițial de AC:

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

Bottom line is I'm not a fan of cartoons so naturally a more realistic figure is more appealing to my taste... and which is why I actually tried (and feel in love with) both TR and ROTTR. I never touched the older games for said reasons.

The only realistic thing in this game it's graphics, everything else is still cartoon/unrealistic... because it's a game after all, not a real-life simulator.

At least old games were honest on its looks and more fun too.

But honesty is something many gamers and developers don't have today,
everyone is fake and have an agenda to push. It's sad.
I liked her looks in Legend, should I feel guilty for liking sexy womens?
I didn't expect her to be real, she's a game character.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1166613721Spoiler Alert! this is a REAL woman, she does cosplays, her name is Irine Meier...

Obviously the game is unrealistic in terms of what would happen in real life. Lara would probably have been dead and buried with the ship that went down in TR. My point is that I like the more realistic gritty feel the newer games have vs the cartoony feel the old games have.

...and that chick does look a lot like her! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[NoobMaster69]

Postat inițial de AC:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1284621153]

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

... new games focus more on her character, which I personally prefer...
... I like her character, looks, and outfit more...

compare the two videos and tell me wich one is has more character. https://youtu.be/WATG0cAp5CU https://youtu.be/ifeqA7dGWs4
this new Lara is shallow as hell, empty threats, weak motives, floating consciousness
one scene she's feels bad for the killing, other she's liking it...

Haha that old Lara clip was pretty hilarious. You could argue all day about Lara's choices in the new games but to be honest, the way I see it, she never wants to kill but she does get mad at times and that makes her seem to swap between "not wanting to kill" and a "cold sociopath".

Postat inițial de AC:

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

... wearing a short top and thigh high shorts is far more impractical than wearing a winter jacket with a hood and long pants...

that is some serious BS right there, and you know it, but anyway...

Welp, if you'd rather wear a short top and short pants in a sub zero environment while getting attacked by a bear, be my guest.

Postat inițial de AC:

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

... more realistic gritty feel the newer games have vs the cartoony feel the old games have...

https://youtu.be/8cnv8CJilnI

Is that Underworld? I did buy that one because it looked less cartoony but haven't played much of it yet (think I just got past the Kraken).

Postat inițial de AC:

sorry about this, but you are just a fake gamer/person as many others, you said you like the
"more grounded Lara" yet, you reply this:

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

...and that chick does look a lot like her! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

you know this girl is hot and you like her, so it was Lara before! Stop being a hypocrite.

Nah, I'm not fake. Lenny face was for memes. The real chick in the picture does look hot, yes, but that doesn't mean I'm head over heels about the outfit. I still prefer the design of Lara in the new games.

[NoobMaster69]

Postat inițial de ShenWolf:

Actually, jackets and long pants are good mainly for cold places. Otherwise, the less clothing you have the more mobility you get. Think of sports, try playing basketball with a winter jacket, it's harder and less comfortable. Also think of what athletes and gymnasts mostly wear.


I still don't see what made you consider her a " slut " if not the revealing clothes but anyway...

Yep, which is why I like how they designed Lara's outfits in the new games. TR had Lara in the tank top and cargo pants, which made sense from how she ended up in trouble (was in her room when the ship crashed, from memory). In ROTTR, she swaps from winter gear to tank top and cargo pants in Syria, which again, while it may be more hot than shorts, is probably a better idea if you're gonna be scuffling along dusty passageways or climbing up sharp rocks.

Either way, it's not just about mobility. Ever tried walking through sharp or prickly bushes in shorts? It makes a hell of a difference to wear long pants and a lot of time is worth the trade off.

As for me saying she looks a bit slutty, it's just my first impressions. Probably from a mix of her outfit + how they show her in the games (and that TR movie with Angelina Jolie).

Either way, you guys can still have your opinion lol, I'm just stating mine.

New Lara > Old Lara.

If you guys have a prob with that not much I can do.

[NoobMaster69]

Postat inițial de AC:

wow... what a mental stable person she is...

I guess that would be about right after you've killed hundreds of people and had your best friends die in front of you. Keep in mind she is taking revenge on Trinity who have killed/hurt everyone she knows... I'll give her a bit of leeway there.

Postat inițial de AC:

nah.. I rather kill thousand of undead warrioirs you know, like you do in real life!

Lol, that genuinely made me laugh. I'm not saying the games supposed to be a realistic Survival Simulator 2018, my point is that I like that they make her outfits suit the environment she's in. Adds to the immersement in the story/game world IMO.

Postat inițial de AC:

ok, I can give you that one, every men have diferent tastes, so it's ok...

;)

[Nihil]

Postat inițial de Jrpg Girl:

get rid survival instinct????? are you serious? So you want to spent 1000 hrs to get all collectible?

If you dont like it then DONT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ USE IT, Easy right?

And you see buddy there you nailed it! Why in the ♥♥♥♥'s sake are there even collectibles in the game? The old TR games had 3 secrets /level and that was it. The gameplay was long enough without searching for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ collectibles. Just play the game maybe? And yes, if you play a game called TOMB RAIDER, ten would you please act like a tomb raider and actually search for the things you want?

[NoobMaster69]

Postat inițial de ShenWolf:

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

Ever tried walking through sharp or prickly bushes in shorts? It makes a hell of a difference to wear long pants and a lot of time is worth the trade off.

It's not like she constantly runs through bushes and thorns you know. And the few times she does, it shouldn't be a big concern since this is just a game. Just use your suspension of disbelief like how you use it to not mind enduring multiple bullets, undead warriors, centuries old spirits, immortality relics etc. I don't see why a bunch of scratches you'd get in real life matters that much. I mean, you are literally fine with instantly healing bullet wounds, bush scratches are nothing compared to that.

Postat inițial de AC:

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

I guess that would be about right after you've killed hundreds of people and had your best friends die in front of you. Keep in mind she is taking revenge on Trinity who have killed/hurt everyone she knows... I'll give her a bit of leeway there.

Is that a good lead character in games now? She's about to have a mental colapse, a depression, she's weak and have no buiseness in Tomb Raider! She isn't Lara Croft! But if it is, then no wonder I didn't like the recent games like the previous...

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

I'm not saying the games supposed to be a realistic Survival Simulator 2018, my point is that I like that they make her outfits suit the environment she's in. Adds to the immersement in the story/game world IMO.

Does the clothes she wear matter then? No.
I rather have her clothed with something ridiculous, something to remind players it's a game, many of them today confuse reality with video-games too often, it's scary...

I dunno, I think Lara's doing pretty well considering what she's been through in the last two games.

Anyway, both of you keep thinking I'm trying to argue that the game is realistic because her outfits more practical for the environment (ROTTR specifically). I never said that.

All I am saying is this:

I like the new Lara better because:
- Less exaggerated figure is more asthetically pleasing because it looks more like an actual woman and not cartoonified/exaggerated.
- More of a quiet personality but still kicks butt when in a tight spot
- Outfit and character design is more realistic and as such, makes the game feel more like I'm watching an action movie, and again, not a cartoon.

But to each their own. You guys can keep liking the old Lara, I don't really understand why you want to keep arguing about my personal preferences. I guess it's the internet so I really should've known better than to state what I think, people will always try to argue about something...

I do know though that I've spent too much time arguing about such a silly topic that I'm gonna head off now & unsub. All the best & no hard feelings, everyone has their own opinion on Lara and I respect that.

Peace.

[E41St0rF1rE]

Im 47 and liked the old tombraiders, angel of darkness the mother of all bugged games for obvious reasons excluded, but i am a huge fan of the latest two with the, new approach and think they are the best in the whole series.

[paulclark669]

i hear the rumored 2018 TR will be developed by crstal dinamics again id like to see a tr based on either the ark of the covanant or the holy grail

[Vayne]

Postat inițial de paulclark669:

i hear the rumored 2018 TR will be developed by crstal dinamics again id like to see a tr based on either the ark of the covanant or the holy grail

Then you heard wrong. New tomb raider WONT be developed by Crystal Dynamics as they are working on Avenger project. Rise of the tomb raider is developed by crystal dynamic. Please DONT spread false info

[Arvaos]

Postat inițial de ShenWolf:

Postat inițial de Skr3bL0rD:

Outfit and character design is more realistic and as such, makes the game feel more like I'm watching an action movie, and again, not a cartoon.

Well, it's just that your brain seems to want to defend the reboot so much that it's coming up with irrational excuses.

Bullets & Knives not leaving deep bloody wounds = NOT important, does NOT break realism & NOT cartoonish
Leaves not leaving scratches on naked legs = important, breaks realism & cartoonish

Anyway, have fun. I just wish that you people weren't the majority so that in order to appeal to you our fun didn't need to get butchered. If I wanted the feeling I get from watching an action movie, I'd simply go watch an action movie, not play games which ended up creating a demand for interactive movies.

We can dream but yes, Lara Croft should be the female equivalent of Indiana Jones.

Unfortunately, the new Lara does have a soft look about her and an experienced rock climber would have a more lean and muscular physique in reality. Trust me, the new model would not be able to do a few pull ups let alone climb mountains.

I hope we will see the old Lara return at some point in the future or at the very least, they could develop and mature her character model.

[Arvaos]

Postat inițial de Peculiar_Shenanigans:

I just quit Rise Of The Tomb Raider (again) with the "Defeat Trinity Forces" mission. It's just all shooting and i suck at it :( That's not why i bought this game.
I bought it because i've read alot of people say this game had less shooting than the previous but to me it doesn't feel that way.
So yeah, less shooting (or atleast spread it out in smaller parts) and more puzzles.

Not going to give it a negative review though. It's just not what i hoped for.

Sadly, I was disappointed in the same way that you were.

There wasn't enough parkour or puzzles compared to the old games, Assassin's Creed Origins and Mirror's Edge are both better parkour games.

[Dixieeyy]

I 100% agree!!!

[tm0Lif3]

I played quite a number of older Tomb Raider games. It has underwater exploration. It has T-Rex.. it has wild animals.. and it has platforming and it has puzzles! It was so awesome that i move section to section and that i solve those puzzles!. And gosh it's not about realism.. the graphics at that point in time it was so beautiful.

Now the aim is to make Lara an "average" girl.. reduce her bust.. make her chubby so she is "stronk". This is Crystal Dynamic logic. And also making her gay and pew pew pew.. killing as many "mens" as possible.

They get it all wrong. I support feminism but feminism isn't about "men" hating or making women looks ugly so they become "stronker".

[DrNewcenstein]

Tomb Raider started off as "Indiana Jones with a vag and D-cup implants", period. Yes, they cut her chest down to a realistic size and expanded her waistline to a realistic size and she doesn't do handstand splits when she climbs up a 500 foot cliff and she doesn't run around in boy shorts.

Grow. Up.

Anniversary was a straight reboot of the original, including the tower with the multiple rooms and traps, and coming out of the cavern on top of the Sphinx with the dramatic camera pullback. They were finally able to make it the way they wanted to originally but couldn't afford to, and for the time it looked awesome.

Once they started doing the holy grail and the relic hunting and Lara's Mom and all the personal story and personal drama and shadowy organizations and wave after wave of special forces attacks and all that Hollywood stuff, and got away from actual tombs filled with puzzles and traps, the series went downhill. They tried to integrate the stuff from the movies with the game plot and it's just not working as a Tomb Raider/Lara Croft title.

They could have called it anything else in the world but Tomb Raider, and named her anything other than Lara Croft, and it would have been a much better game. It would have been referred to as "Tomb Raider-ish" and people would have called her "a Lara Croft wannabe", but the game would still have been fun to play on its own merits as a "kinda like TR, but with....".

However, whoever owns the rights to it can call it whatever they like and make it however they want. There are those who will buy it because of the TR name on it.

Given that, it's easy to explain certain things, like why we're not jetting from Tibet to Egypt to Peru to Antarctica all in one game; it's more believable for her to crashland in Syria and hike through Turkey and into Russia. You find a trail where you find it, and you follow where it leads. Apparently they've got a storyline and they're dragging it out, which means more games in the series, and more cohesion to the story other than Lifestyles of the Rich, Athletic, and Busty.

As well, there's only so much you can do with a Tomb Raider plot: how many Egyptian tombs can you realistically find that are impressive enough, with each one having to out-do the last? How many ancient Greek sites are there to explore below ground? How many times can you do the "yet another Land That Time Forgot map with a T-Rex"? Not more than once.
After that, you have to go for smaller less impressive targets like we see in Rise (all that work to get explosive arrows and tow chain arrows so you can bust open a cubby hole to get 3 copper coins, or to open a "cave" that is only about 100 square feet, if that, and nothing but some mineral deposits).

However, where the 2013 reboot was "learning to walk", Rise was "learning to ride a bicycle". Hopefully the next one will be a little closer to the seasoned combat vet who isn't gun shy, but not quite the prancing tiger with superhuman agility and stamina of the original 1990s blocky Lara.

Open World is still the best option for any game other than track-based motorsports (NASCR, Gran Prix, etc) or something involving a _ball (base, foot, basket, etc), especially if there is reason to not follow the beaten path, whether it's finding an alternate route or bypassing an entire area or finding sweet loot. Open World with nothing to it other than being open is ok, but if you only have one possible path to an objective, it's not open, it's just a larger field of play.