Game needs changes.

[The Gut]

I think there are two major changes that need to happen with Tomb Raider,

First is the Game design, it needs to be more old school hard mode with less player tutorial, this will allow the player to figure out how to play the game without insulting anyone's intelligence.

Secondly, I think the new Lara is a bit too plain and ultimately has been redesigned to look sub par compared to the old model Lara, which is a problem for fans who love the old games as well as to the overall cool look to the character itself.

[Lowernios]

But her old look and my idea of a modern female protagonist are simply out of sync.

Same. She was way too male-gaze-y. New Lara seems like an actual person.

ut the vast majority of men want bigger than normal Rise of Tomb Raider size breasts, sorry, that's how it is, and always will be.

I am not certain that this is correct, either for the present or the future. To a significant extent (obviously not entirely), sexuality is culturally constructed, as are beauty standards.

Even if what you say about breast size is true (perhaps it is!), it does not necessarily follow that we as male gamers would want every female character we play to be our perfect sexual fantasy.

But it's not as if the new Lara is not still extremely attractive by any conventional contemporary Western standard. Of course she is.

flat Lara as an alternate costume, but they should really just have her original hot design

She ain't flat bro *mic drop*

[The Gut]

Beauty standards for men aren't entirely cultural.
It's something instinctual based on sexual desire with women.

I can agree Lara isn't ugly, I mean she looks pretty, but the problem is they made a bow cover her boobs, which I don't like, and her face is dirty like a bum too often.

Publicado originalmente por Lowernios:

But her old look and my idea of a modern female protagonist are simply out of sync.

Same. She was way too male-gaze-y. New Lara seems like an actual person.

ut the vast majority of men want bigger than normal Rise of Tomb Raider size breasts, sorry, that's how it is, and always will be.

I am not certain that this is correct, either for the present or the future. To a significant extent (obviously not entirely), sexuality is culturally constructed, as are beauty standards.

Even if what you say about breast size is true (perhaps it is!), it does not necessarily follow that we as male gamers would want every female character we play to be our perfect sexual fantasy.

But it's not as if the new Lara is not still extremely attractive by any conventional contemporary Western standard. Of course she is.

flat Lara as an alternate costume, but they should really just have her original hot design

She ain't flat bro *mic drop*

[Ninja Max!]

*sigh* Lara Croft is not your porn star. In fact, if she goes back to the old look. The feminists would kill her for good.

I was trying to use data and logic to tell you what mature adults would think.

It is just so sad to see guys like you to be so shallow.

I rest my case.

[The Gut]

Lol.

Shallow?

I'm a man, and I like to view hot women, and that's regular.

Feminists can make a game if they want female characters to look like men, or have no feminine qualities or be boyish.

Lara doesn't have sex with anyone in the games so what's all this talk about porn stars?
I just don't want to look at a lame or ugly character, so they should make the character look good again.

Feminism has no place in video games anyway. They should stick to teaching ideology in the university where it doesn't belong either... oh wait... I guess Feminism just doesn't belong at all?

Hmm, well I suppose it was useful when women were oppressed, but now they aren't in the US, so need for their complaining BS.

Publicado originalmente por mlowthue1:

*sigh* Lara Croft is not your porn star. In fact, if she goes back to the old look. The feminists would kill her for good.

I was trying to use data and logic to tell you what mature adults would think.

It is just so sad to see guys like you to be so shallow.

I rest my case.

[Lowernios]

RIP slightly-better-disguised troll thread.

[Artoriaz]

Publicado originalmente por Polite & Respectful Forums Man:

Beauty standards for men aren't entirely cultural.
It's something instinctual based on sexual desire with women.

I can agree Lara isn't ugly, I mean she looks pretty, but the problem is they made a bow cover her boobs, which I don't like, and her face is dirty like a bum too often.

Publicado originalmente por Lowernios:

Same. She was way too male-gaze-y. New Lara seems like an actual person.



I am not certain that this is correct, either for the present or the future. To a significant extent (obviously not entirely), sexuality is culturally constructed, as are beauty standards.

Even if what you say about breast size is true (perhaps it is!), it does not necessarily follow that we as male gamers would want every female character we play to be our perfect sexual fantasy.

But it's not as if the new Lara is not still extremely attractive by any conventional contemporary Western standard. Of course she is.



She ain't flat bro *mic drop*

You are complaining about a game you havn't even played. If you had you would know that her bow only covers her boobs when its equiped. Just swap to one of the many other weapons in the game and its gone. You might actually want to play the game or at least have an understanding of how the game works before criticising it.

[The Gut]

That's not the point.

Publicado originalmente por JonathanWhiting13:

Publicado originalmente por Polite & Respectful Forums Man:

Beauty standards for men aren't entirely cultural.
It's something instinctual based on sexual desire with women.

I can agree Lara isn't ugly, I mean she looks pretty, but the problem is they made a bow cover her boobs, which I don't like, and her face is dirty like a bum too often.

You are complaining about a game you havn't even played. If you had you would know that her bow only covers her boobs when its equiped. Just swap to one of the many other weapons in the game and its gone. You might actually want to play the game or at least have an understanding of how the game works before criticising it.

[NNNN]

maybe they need to change the targeted audience.

because the fans of lara is geting older and lara is geting younger.

part of the problem is lara use to be a badass lady young people admire but the young peoples grew olders and badass lara is too sacry for them now .so they reboot lara and switch her back to when she was weaker and younger so they can catch up to thier old audiance wiout spook them away or shatter thier hopes for make them realize thier incompetence in life.

in away its like they telling you "lara wasn't always a badass she was young and inexperienced once. its just like you were once young and full of energy and dreams. and you are not allway what you have became."

i think the Tomb raider will get major changes and reboot agian once majority of the older fans die out or became too incapacitated then they can swtich to new targeted audience with more suited changes . possibly for the younger audiance of today so they can live long enough to see the evolution of lara going back to her badass self. depending on your age and time left to live . the younger one will literally grew up with lara.

[The Gut]

I don't think it was a major hit success compared to the other game buddy.

Why don't we join forces and get these changes made so Lara can come back?

Publicado originalmente por JonathanWhiting13:

Publicado originalmente por mlowthue1:

I am sorry if you are referring to "Rise", 3 million is about right.

Its also sold another 1.4 million on PC

[Artoriaz]

Publicado originalmente por Polite & Respectful Forums Man:

I don't think it was a major hit success compared to the other game buddy.

Why don't we join forces and get these changes made so Lara can come back?

Publicado originalmente por JonathanWhiting13:

Its also sold another 1.4 million on PC

It took years before SE where satisfied that TR 2013 had sold enough copies. This game will continue to sell well (just like 2013) and probably just as many as the last game once the price drops as people usually wait to buy games like this at a much lower price because they are single player so it dosn't matter when people play them. The reason this game didn't sell as well initially is because of the xbox exclusivity, but now its out on all platforms its selling well, or at least on PC it is. This game is still probably square enix's biggest release in along time if you compair its sales to other recent SE games.

ROTTR - 1.4 million
Just cause 3 - 1.1 million
Deus Ex MD - 650,000
Hitman - 600,000

I would call that a pretty big success when compaired to the other 3 which are the best selling SE games released recently that I can find.

Even much older SE games like sleeping dogs and thief have only shipped 1.4 - 1.5 million copies which have been out for years. TR 2013 had a much smaller launch initially as well with only 9,700 players on launch day, compaired to 44,000 for Rise's launch day.

Rise by no means sold badly, at least on PC, so I don't see the point in arguing over its sales anymore.

[The Gut]

Interesting stats. Thanks for the info buddy, I can count on you for stuff like that.

I need to go dig up some stats of my own now I guess.

Deus Ex was kind of a flop, I know. I wonder why that is though....

Dude I have a serious question for you John,
Do you like the current gaming industry right now?

More specifically the aspects about the gaming world today such as DLC, agenda filled games, moron proof tutorials, and games with no pay off, ( lacking in fun ) and poor design.

Just from one gamer to another I'd like your opinion on these things we now deal with due to the ever changing world I know, but can the gaming industry do better with fun and actual game making instead of these incomplete kickstarter lie funded games?

^not commenting on Tomb Raider specifically about the Kick Starter thing, just in general.

Let me know what you think huh.

Publicado originalmente por JonathanWhiting13:

Publicado originalmente por Polite & Respectful Forums Man:

I don't think it was a major hit success compared to the other game buddy.

Why don't we join forces and get these changes made so Lara can come back?

It took years before SE where satisfied that TR 2013 had sold enough copies. This game will continue to sell well (just like 2013) and probably just as many as the last game once the price drops as people usually wait to buy games like this at a much lower price because they are single player so it dosn't matter when people play them. The reason this game didn't sell as well initially is because of the xbox exclusivity, but now its out on all platforms its selling well, or at least on PC it is. This game is still probably square enix's biggest release in along time if you compair its sales to other recent SE games.

ROTTR - 1.4 million
Just cause 3 - 1.1 million
Deus Ex MD - 650,000
Hitman - 600,000

I would call that a pretty big success when compaired to the other 3 which are the best selling SE games released recently that I can find.

Even much older SE games like sleeping dogs and thief have only shipped 1.4 - 1.5 million copies which have been out for years. TR 2013 had a much smaller launch initially as well with only 9,700 players on launch day, compaired to 44,000 for Rise's launch day.

Rise by no means sold badly, at least on PC, so I don't see the point in arguing over its sales anymore.

[sling_shot]

Publicado originalmente por Polite & Respectful Forums Man:

First is the Game design, it needs to be more old school hard mode with less player tutorial, this will allow the player to figure out how to play the game without insulting anyone's intelligence.

I have the solution for that: the good old training mini-mission with access to every gadget you can think of.
why did devs stop making those? oh I know, because they started integratin the discovery of a new gadget/skill into the plot -- which btw didn't make sense in this game : Lara went to Syberia for a dangerous expedition against an armed cult, you'd expect her to have all kind of gadgets on her. pff

[Artoriaz]

Publicado originalmente por Polite & Respectful Forums Man:

Interesting stats. Thanks for the info buddy, I can count on you for stuff like that.

I need to go dig up some stats of my own now I guess.

Deus Ex was kind of a flop, I know. I wonder why that is though....

Dude I have a serious question for you John,
Do you like the current gaming industry right now?

More specifically the aspects about the gaming world today such as DLC, agenda filled games, moron proof tutorials, and games with no pay off, ( lacking in fun ) and poor design.

Just from one gamer to another I'd like your opinion on these things we now deal with due to the ever changing world I know, but can the gaming industry do better with fun and actual game making instead of these incomplete kickstarter lie funded games?

^not commenting on Tomb Raider specifically about the Kick Starter thing, just in general.

Let me know what you think huh.

Publicado originalmente por JonathanWhiting13:

It took years before SE where satisfied that TR 2013 had sold enough copies. This game will continue to sell well (just like 2013) and probably just as many as the last game once the price drops as people usually wait to buy games like this at a much lower price because they are single player so it dosn't matter when people play them. The reason this game didn't sell as well initially is because of the xbox exclusivity, but now its out on all platforms its selling well, or at least on PC it is. This game is still probably square enix's biggest release in along time if you compair its sales to other recent SE games.

ROTTR - 1.4 million
Just cause 3 - 1.1 million
Deus Ex MD - 650,000
Hitman - 600,000

I would call that a pretty big success when compaired to the other 3 which are the best selling SE games released recently that I can find.

Even much older SE games like sleeping dogs and thief have only shipped 1.4 - 1.5 million copies which have been out for years. TR 2013 had a much smaller launch initially as well with only 9,700 players on launch day, compaired to 44,000 for Rise's launch day.

Rise by no means sold badly, at least on PC, so I don't see the point in arguing over its sales anymore.

I have no problem with DLC if its done well to a high standard like in the witcher 3, or its usless microtransactions for outfits and emots as long as it dosn't effect gameplay, but if its obvious pay to win or content cut from the game to resell then I have a problem.

Agenda filled games depends on what agenda your talking about.

Moron proof tutorials are fine if you can turn them off.

Games with bad design and no pay off are obviously bad and I don't really care about kick starters as i have never given money to one and if people are stupid enough to waste money or things that get cancelled thats their problem for giving away there money without thinking.

And as for whether I have a problem with the gaming industry at the moment, the answer is yes. There are far too many games that launch broken and unfinnished or with cut content like deus ex, or are just simply copy and paste jobs like COD.

[The Gut]

Right?

I mean her whole gimmick is the female Bruce Wayne with all the equipment and being prepared. Doesn't make sense to me either.
I guess they tried to make some kind of progression based system, but if they need progression they can always use the maps and difficulty for that.

Publicado originalmente por kill-chan:

Publicado originalmente por Polite & Respectful Forums Man:

First is the Game design, it needs to be more old school hard mode with less player tutorial, this will allow the player to figure out how to play the game without insulting anyone's intelligence.

I have the solution for that: the good old training mini-mission with access to every gadget you can think of.
why did devs stop making those? oh I know, because they started integratin the discovery of a new gadget/skill into the plot -- which btw didn't make sense in this game : Lara went to Syberia for a dangerous expedition against an armed cult, you'd expect her to have all kind of gadgets on her. pff