Oxenfree

Oxenfree

View Stats:
Is there a real ending? [obvious spoilers]
I'm kinda unwilling to believe there's no other ending than the loopey-loop one.

The general premise of the story is that you can't change the past and that fate governs happenings. I mean, the dead submarine crew say they've witnessed the world's demise countless times and that all they have is their anger (as in, they're unwilling to accept that their death and the fact they've been forgetten by society).

Also, of the three key decisions only telling Michael no to leave has direct influence on the outcome; whether to break up with Clarissa and whether Jonas should see his mom have no effect. Hence I'm thinking there must be a way of configuring them to cook up something different.

So, what exactly is the "vanilla" way of recreating the past? I made one mistake in my last playthrough, because in a flashback I told Michael to stay with Clarissa when in fact when angry at Alex she states "Michael was going to leave" rather than "we were going to leave".

Then again, I was unwilling to believe there was no other ending to Mass Effect 3 and we all know how that turned out ;) Anyway, anyone got any thoughts on this?
< >
Showing 1-15 of 29 comments
sashimi taco Jan 18, 2016 @ 2:44pm 
The reason Alex is stuck is because this all has already happened in every single way possible. That's why you see glimpses of the alternate realities (Ren jumping off the bridge and stuff).

Alex has long ago already chose to sacrifice herself to stop the others from crossing over. So she repeats the same night. Forever.

Lots of horror stories end like that.
Volatile Schemer Jan 18, 2016 @ 3:39pm 
I dunno. The condition of submarine crew evidently deteriorated after they've been stuck in their own loop and Alex seems to have kept all her senses. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if what you wrote is what devs cooked up - it holds water and all - but I have to say it's kinda underwhelming. Like, those three big decisions mean nothing? Those tests mean nothing? Also I was wondering, do you have a theory what the magnetophones meant?

As a side note I have to admit I'm getting kinda tired of multiple-reality games and movies because they offer an author's vision without any proper explanation and you can only rely on what you believe they meant and you can rarely get to the bottom of things. I mean, it was kinda cool at first with Inception and stuff but it's getting kinda old at this point.
Kappa Jan 18, 2016 @ 4:24pm 
Originally posted by sashimi taco:
The reason Alex is stuck is because this all has already happened in every single way possible. That's why you see glimpses of the alternate realities (Ren jumping off the bridge and stuff).

Alex has long ago already chose to sacrifice herself to stop the others from crossing over. So she repeats the same night. Forever.

Lots of horror stories end like that.

That's a creepy theory, but why would she keep repeating the same night to fight the same evil when they've already got what they wanted? It would explain the mirror Alexs though.
Volatile Schemer Jan 18, 2016 @ 5:01pm 
I played through one last time and I think Sashimi's theory is correct. It's a bit of a lazy cop-out explanation on developers' end but I suppose that's all we can expect these days. I love a story when at conclusion all pieces just come together and I realise I could've figured everything out myself had I been smarter or more attentive. Here I've read all the letters, listened to all tour guide stuff, and the explanation is the good old "oh we're so secretive and convoluted booyah" and it turns out all the big decisions meant nothing because "she's just reliving this again".

I dunno, I kinda hope I'm wrong and there's something there waiting to be discovered but you know, if Mass Effect 3 tought me one thing it's not to have high hopes with this kind of stuff.

All in all Oxenfree is a great game but I'd have enjoyed it more without the secretive multiverse nonsense.
Gremlin [GWJ] Jan 18, 2016 @ 8:14pm 
There's some gaps, still, though I don't know if the game ever resolves them.

The ghosts aren't in control of the time loops, and accuse Alex of being the the one to cause them.
Anna is still gone. The sub is still sunk. The ghosts say that you can't change the past...but then what about Michael?
Was the sub sending a distress signal before it was spotted? I'm going to have to go back and check that, but there may have been something else going on there...
Clarissa forgets that she has a dog?
Anna is communicating with Morse Code. Was Maggie aware of that? It seems like she wasn't...
Volatile Schemer Jan 18, 2016 @ 11:24pm 
Originally posted by Gremlin:
The ghosts aren't in control of the time loops, and accuse Alex of being the the one to cause them.

I must have missed that part. When do they accuse Alex? They do resent her for being a part of humanity in general, I mean humanity which wiped them from memory, but they're appreciative of her dabbling with their signal because it gives them a shot at leaving the other side.


Anna is still gone. The sub is still sunk. The ghosts say that you can't change the past...but then what about Michael?

I don't think Anna is one of the ghosts. I remember one of the diaries I think mentioning that it was the nuclear detonation that anchored the crew. Since Anna died from ghosts trying to take over her body too hastily I don't think she's become one of them; at least there seems to be nothing to indicate that. On the other hand though, one part I don't get at all, why is Jonas' mother anywhere near the happenings? I mean, she died far away from the island and I guess it wasn't through nuclear disintegration so why is she there at all?

Was the sub sending a distress signal before it was spotted? I'm going to have to go back and check that, but there may have been something else going on there...

One of the letters says that submarine sent a distress signal which was jammed and Maggie went for the textbook response (rather than analysing it thoroughly) and had the sub hunted down. That's why the ghosts blame her for their situation.

Clarissa forgets that she has a dog?

U got me taken aback here. I only remember Alex talking about Clarissa getting a dog in the epilogue.


Anna is communicating with Morse Code. Was Maggie aware of that? It seems like she wasn't...

You mean anomalies? I felt that anomalies where smaller versions of ghosts' frequencies. I mean, I must''ve missed any indication of Anna becoming one of the ghosts.
Gremlin [GWJ] Jan 19, 2016 @ 9:59am 
Originally posted by Volatile Schemer:
Originally posted by Gremlin:
The ghosts aren't in control of the time loops, and accuse Alex of being the the one to cause them.

I must have missed that part. When do they accuse Alex? They do resent her for being a part of humanity in general, I mean humanity which wiped them from memory, but they're appreciative of her dabbling with their signal because it gives them a shot at leaving the other side.
I don't know if it varies, but in my second playthrough as they're going to the Catbird station, when the Ghosts are trying to make a deal with Alex for Clarissa, if she asks them about the time loops they blame her for them.

Originally posted by Volatile Schemer:
Anna is still gone. The sub is still sunk. The ghosts say that you can't change the past...but then what about Michael?

I don't think Anna is one of the ghosts. I remember one of the diaries I think mentioning that it was the nuclear detonation that anchored the crew. Since Anna died from ghosts trying to take over her body too hastily I don't think she's become one of them; at least there seems to be nothing to indicate that. On the other hand though, one part I don't get at all, why is Jonas' mother anywhere near the happenings? I mean, she died far away from the island and I guess it wasn't through nuclear disintegration so why is she there at all?
Jonas's mother does seem like another loose end. For that matter, why is Michael linked up in all this? Is it just that they're both in the past, and time has gotten unhinged?

Originally posted by Volatile Schemer:
Was the sub sending a distress signal before it was spotted? I'm going to have to go back and check that, but there may have been something else going on there...

One of the letters says that submarine sent a distress signal which was jammed and Maggie went for the textbook response (rather than analysing it thoroughly) and had the sub hunted down. That's why the ghosts blame her for their situation.
So why were they sending a distress signal in the first place?

Originally posted by Volatile Schemer:
Clarissa forgets that she has a dog?

U got me taken aback here. I only remember Alex talking about Clarissa getting a dog in the epilogue.
When they're at the Adler house, Clarissa asks Nona what the name of her own dog is. It's the...third conversation I think? I could be misremembering it, but it stood out to me because of memory loss being a symptom.

Originally posted by Volatile Schemer:
Anna is communicating with Morse Code. Was Maggie aware of that? It seems like she wasn't...

You mean anomalies? I felt that anomalies where smaller versions of ghosts' frequencies. I mean, I must''ve missed any indication of Anna becoming one of the ghosts.
Regarding Anna, watch this video: http://steamcommunity.com/app/388880/discussions/0/451850849197314207/
Volatile Schemer Jan 19, 2016 @ 1:03pm 
Okay, regarding loops I kinda have a running theory here. First things first though. I found that line which you're talking about. Ghosts say "The 'time loops', as you've taken to calling them which we do find so adorable are of your own making". This is a very vague statement which doesn't really confirm these are actually time loops (they kind of make fun of Alex for calling it so).

Let me tell you my theory now. The game is based on the concept of "eternal recurrence", which generally assumes that the world will re-occur infinite amount of times in a fashion that's similar, but not identical. Unlike the classical theory though which portrays timeline as a single circle in Oxenfree it's multiple recurring cirles or knot; parallel universes and each of them endlessly repeating themselves. For some evidence on this: during Aldler house trials Clarissa wants you to find a knot and when you do she refers to it 'eternal recurrence'; also in Adler house ghost-controlled Clarissa says "We've watched the universe's conception fly to its demise over and over and over again"; about Maggie they say "We've... watched her. In every timeline, watched her try and... understand".

This means that this story has been played out in all possible scenarios across all existing planes of existence. In our particular timeline Michael died but in others there's a slight difference, like Alex telling him to stay. As the ghosts say you can't actually change the past "No. You can't change... before. You can't change anything.", so Michael living simply means she moved on to another timeline.

All doppelgangers are versions of Alex who decided to sacrifice themselves and ended up in limbo alongside Anna and submarine crew.

Finally I have a theory about that final loop. In my opinion it's not actually a loop back, but a fast forward. Like, an eternity fast forward. I mean, the temporal tear has been fixed so she can't really be spontaneously ported back. I think it's like, we're at the end of the game's timeline, it's skipped, the eternal recurrence hourglass is turned, time before the game starts is skipped and we're like an eternity forward.

Theorycrafting aside there are so many questions I feel there isn't enough data to answer. Primarily we're given next to nothing to work with as far as magnetophones are concerned. I think that all "local" time loops are a result of timelines interfering, like a glitch or something, but we're not given the slightest explanation on why magnetophones are setting things straight. I mean, the running theory here is that the glitch is cause by interfering waves from different timelines. Music and sound in general are also waves so a specific frequency could theoretically fix the glitch. I dunno, I can't wrap my head around how they actually appear there.

Tons of other questions. At first Jonas - unlike Alex - doesn't realise that a time loop has happened but as more of them occur he starts to notice that. Why is she faster to realise things? What is the deal with Jonas hearing his mother's favourite tune? Infuriatingly nothing to work with here as Jonas' decision seems to have no influence whatsoever. When Alex is about to get the WAL radio she's glitched into alternative version of Truth of Slap but this time they don't need a magnetophone to exit the glitch. Why? When Ren cites Mark Twain at the end Alex has a deja vu. What's the significance of this? Upon convincing the ghosts to release Alex and her friends they say "Take care with the time you have left Child. And take notice of what you choose to-" which cuts off. Again, nothing to work with.

I like to analyse stuff and all but in case of Oxenfree it's like everything is open for interpretation and each guess is as good as any other. It could really have used some more substance to actually write some theories off.

And geez sorry for the length of this.
Crax Jan 19, 2016 @ 11:47pm 
I think the 'take notice of what you choose' is a way to ... How do I put this... Unite all the Alexs of parallel timelines to form a single, strongest timeline of events. You know, like many streams forming into a river. For what purpose I am not sure - the most logical explanation will be to use that combined river to break away from the loop, I guess?

I have a theory regarding the megaphones. So, when you glitch into a small time loop you need to adjust them to make it right again, correct? As you spin in a circle, it is akin to slowly syncing the small time loop with the larger one until they match each other and sync, thus equalizing both times and 'pop' you back to the bigger time loop.

So, okay, whoo. This is going to be hard to write. Anyway, what I want to say is that this bigger time loop Alex is trapped in, as the ghosts say is caused by none other than herself.

Let me put this from the beginning. There are 3 types of time loops here. One, the True Timeline where the universe loops in an endless cycle of death and rebirth. Two, the time loop Alex is trapped in where she infinitely replays her experience in the game, and also the one the ghosts are trying to escape. And finally three, the smaller time loops that traps her for a brief period in the 2nd timeloop.

So, pheeeeeew this is going to be huge. As you know, in the game Jonah is the one who got engulfed by the final megaphone, correct? However, I am going to make a bold theory here saying that during the First Encounter in the True Timeline, it isn't Jonah who got engulfed by the megaphone, it was Alex. In fact during the First Encounter, Jonah has never been to the island in the first place.

But back to that in a minute. The reason here is Michael. We never understood why he came into the picture, and the only link - the direct link to the equation is the megaphones. Remember how Jonah complains that he had heard tens of times the familiar tune of his mother's voice? That was what happened to Alex. She was lured by MICHAEL'S VOICE every time she passes by and uses the megaphone, experienced incredibly real dreams where she went back to the past, and in the end at the bomb shelter she succumbs to the temptation and uses it, which established the second eternal recurrence and the completion of the 2nd timeloop (the game).

So, a short summary of my First Encounter events.

1) I believe that during the first Encounter, only Alex, Ren and Clarissa AND CLARISSA'S DOG are the ones who went to the island. Alex was attracted by the light, and by coincidence and curosity she accidentally traps all of them in the time interference the ghosts created.

2) The ghosts are trying to escape a time loop, although I can't say for sure which one until I've gotten all the Addler letters and secret messages. Most likely the True Timeline, since they have witnessed the end and rebirth of universe.

3) Remember that your first task is to save Ren or Clarissa? I emphasis again that that's the original gang. Jonah or Noona are not a part of it. In fact, Noona... No I will talk about that later. Moving on, Alex saves Ren and then goes to save Clarissa.

But she failed. Clarissa jumps off the building and kills herself.

4) Blah blah blah, moving on, Ren and Alex gets in the Addler Estate to try and escape with the boat. But at the Addler Estate the ghost challenged Alex to a puzzle, and Alex FAILED, causing Ren to vanish (I'm fairly certain the last person to disappear, the one that really matters is Ren, right?).

Then Ren drowned, matching her failure to save Ren.

5) In the cavern Alex finally figures out what the ghosts are planning, and came up with an insane plan of her own. Throughout the journey she has been turning the megaphones and causing the time interference / rip caused by the ghosts to LOOP ON ITS OWN, and if she performs the last acts then she can complete the 2nd time loop and go back to the past. So that she can FIX HER MISTAKES.

Do you get it? Alex INTENTIONALLY COMPLETED the second time loop so that she can reverse Ren and Clarissa's death. Have you ever played the rope puzzle where 2 people are tied together by ropes looping around their wrists? If it's too hard then think simpler: 2 circles looping around each other that can never be separated, and in this case 2 eternal recurrences, Alex's and the ghosts'.

6) Everytime the 2nd loop restarts, Alex doesn't remember anything. However, she gets premonitions, dejavus, and the recognition of a timeloop before anyone else because she is the creator of this 2nd timeloop.

This makes me think that the original Alex, the first Alex is a rude and complete ♥♥♥♥♥. We saw in Alex's dreams that Clarissa is actually a great person who cares deeply for Alex, but in the game the most prevalent thing you notice from her is her blaming Clarissa, IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT!' 'Saw the man but not the dog' indicates that Alex may even have HURT the dog, heck, she might have KILLED the dog - remember that scene where Noona told Alex to stay away? Yeah, that - causing THE unhealable rift between the two.

8) Okay, now for more explanation. I said before that Noona is not originally part of the First Encounter, right? That's because she isn't. She is a replacement for Clarissa's dog to keep Clarissa from remembering the decisive factor that broke Alex and her relationship decisively. Let me explain why.

Over the course of many loops Alex subconsciously grows up and wants to make amends for all the wrongs she has done. Like the players who reloads trying to create the perfect ending, that is EXACTLY what Alex is trying to do.

At first, well, she just wants to make Clarissa suffer and you get to make her as bloody miserable as possible with the Michael breakups. Then, she grows up a little and wants to make amends with her, but this is impossible because of the dog's death.

That is where Noona came in. From Ren's description and her own memories, she remembers Noona and at the beginning of a time loop, subconsciously pulls her into the loop. But it is impossible for her to pull Noona in permanently since she can't fight the Original Timeline, so what can she possibly use to bind Noona permanently into her timeloop?

She used the megaphone. Just like how Jones wanted to talk to his mother, Noona wanted to talk to her grandfather. Therefore by using the megaphone not only she stabilizes her own timeloop, she also integrated Noona into her own. Noona, the 3rd eternal recurrence of her loop.

9) Finally we come to Jonah, who is the latest victim of Alex's timeloop and also THE game that we are playing. As you know it is ultimately impossible to change time and since Michael died, he can never appear in her timeloop. So it's not hard to see that Alex wishes for a stepbrother, or perhaps a stepbrother turned into boyfriend since Ren and Noona are like, such a pair...

I don't need to say what she used to stabilize his existence in her world. The megaphone, ayup.

10) So finally we're at the end of a full circle. The megaphones, I theorize are stabilizers that appear naturally in any distorted timeline (such as the one caused by the ghost to escape the Original Timeline) in order to rectify the error.

However. Because Alex is originally a person of the Original Timeline, when the ghosts enlisted her help they unwittingly screw themselves because she keeps operating the stabilizers and correcting all of their distortions.

What they did not expect however, is Alex wanting to fix her own mistakes... No, wait, maybe that was the plan all along...? Completed the 2nd time loop and caused it to be detached from the Original Timeline. The stabilizers that are supposed to correct this error instead became tuned to stabilize ALEX'S WORLD instead, so even if time distortions and rifts appeared they are patched up by Alex's own hands.

If this is the escape the ghosts truly wanted... And I believe it probably is, then they absolute bloody succeeded. They are no longer trapped in the Original Timeline and they no longer have to face the end of the universe. They have Alex to fix any distortions so they can continue this existence of their own choosing forever...
Volatile Schemer Jan 20, 2016 @ 12:15am 
I really don't believe the theory Alex is re-living that one night over and over as there is plenty of evidence against it. Crew members who are in limbo are definitely not re-living the day their ship sunk. They are torn away from all timelines and seek a way to return. Also, any entity in limbo is perfectly aware of its condition.
Volatile Schemer Jan 20, 2016 @ 12:25am 
Two, the time loop Alex is trapped in where she infinitely replays her experience in the game, and also the one the ghosts are trying to escape

Ghosts are not trapped in game's timeframe. They claim to have seen world from its inception to its demise. They just want out from limbo.

But at the Adler Estate the ghost challenged Alex to a puzzle, and Alex FAILED, causing Ren to vanish (I'm fairly certain the last person to disappear, the one that really matters is Ren, right?).

Well.. It's up to the player to either fail or not those puzzles. Failure is not set in stone.

We saw in Alex's dreams that Clarissa is actually a great person who cares deeply for Alex, but in the game the most prevalent thing you notice from her is her blaming Clarissa, IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT

I think the game firmly established the fact that Clarissa and Alex's relationship took a nosedive in the 'vanilla' timeline because Clarissa blamed Alex for Michael's death.

So finally we're at the end of a full circle. The megaphones, I theorize are stabilizers that appear naturally in any distorted timeline (such as the one caused by the ghost to escape the Original Timeline) in order to rectify the error.

Nah, we are given a hint that they are from 1940s but in mint condition. They appear in the same manner as the chair or armoire. There has to be a direct link between the explanation and that bit we've received. They don't just 'pop up naturally' and since it's a piece of technology it's a human intervention. My working theory is that it's Anna's hand (the only other inhabitant of limbo other than submarine crew and proficient with that era's tech having died in 1950s) but there's nothing to support or invalidate it.

Throughout the journey she has been turning the megaphones and causing the time interference / rip caused by the ghosts to LOOP ON ITS OWN, and if she performs the last acts then she can complete the 2nd time loop and go back to the past. So that she can FIX HER MISTAKES.

As you said yourself "time interference / rip" was caused by Alex and not by the ghosts. Also, there's no indication Alex has an idea on how to create a loop which would allow her to fix the past. Moreover ghosts confirm that past cannot be changed. All different outcomes are simply Alex venturing on to different timelines which is only possible because of a nearby temporal tear.
Last edited by Volatile Schemer; Jan 20, 2016 @ 12:56am
Crax Jan 20, 2016 @ 12:51am 
Wait a second, the ghosts want IN on the original timeline? I thought they want to ESCAPE it.
Volatile Schemer Jan 20, 2016 @ 12:58am 
Originally posted by Crax:
Wait a second, the ghosts want IN on the original timeline? I thought they want to ESCAPE it.

Ghosts want in on any timeline. They say it themselves: this time we only want time. They just want to return to existence, be a part of time-space continuum again. They want to escape limbo (my inaccurate term for simplicity's sake).

Also, there is no 'original timeline'. Player's timeline is just one of endless similar parallel ones as symbolised by the knot puzzle in Adler house.
Last edited by Volatile Schemer; Jan 20, 2016 @ 1:18am
Crax Jan 20, 2016 @ 2:08am 
You are correct on the parallel timeline. But every existence must have a beginning, so in my opinion it's up to the players to piece one by one from these flawed timelines what truly happen on the first-to-be-eternity night.
Volatile Schemer Jan 20, 2016 @ 4:37am 
You are familiar with theory of relativity, right?
< >
Showing 1-15 of 29 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Jan 18, 2016 @ 1:46pm
Posts: 29