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Wrong, she represents a brainwashed sheep. Seriously.
BlazBlue is built around one big theme - the relation of characters towards the fake world they live in. This relation of every single character is built off their own themes.
Try to pay attention to some of he moments of CS story where Hazama appears, you'll notice one very interesting thing.
BE, RH and CF spoilers We're talking about the character that made up his past and mission twice(remember when we all have thought that he's just a body for Terumi and his task is to fuse with Noel to become a Black Beast?), who appeared in BE for some reason and later on in CF Naoto was really shocked to see him in the Embryo, who probably still has Crimson Grimoire at his disposal, whose dream was admired by the Nine and who made Terumi his pawn in Act 3. Yet we still don't know who\what he actually is and what he is after.
So yeah, he's versatile and mysterious.
It was Rachel's\Rachel's dad's job.
You seriously underrate other fg's story modes. There are fighting games with better story modes around.
I agree.
Doesn't matters, she still exists.
Watch CP's gag reels.
They're a female robots that only do fighting. None of their poses are sexualized. Having breasts barely counts as fanservice.
Read Phase Shift 4.
Noel always was all fanservice. That skimpy Jill Valentine cosplay that she wore in the first two games doesn't really help.
She's a joke character. I.e. she's not supposed to have any depth. Yet unlike Celica she isn't being forced to be "important". In fact, she becomes almost irrelevant in CF since we've got Jin the Trinity instead now.
What happend to Tsubaki representing Justice? Now she suddenly represents a sheep?
Are we even reading the same story here? Or am I reading a story, and are you reading story building components?
You grossly overestimate the value that ''themes'' have in a story like BlazBlue.
This isnt a Disney story.
So basically if a woman is diminished to nothing but a combat servant, only then do they lack fanservice applied to them? Question, can we even consider those two, women?
Isn't the only real difference between men and women to begin with, their sexuality?
Why are you giving CF spoilers when the game isnt out yet for most of us? Anyway.
I think you might be using the wrong word here.
Because you are describing plot, it has little to do with the character itself.
There's nothing mysterious about Hamaza or Terumis character (personality). He isnt very versatile at all, hes got Trollmode and Seriousmode and he basically only goes Seriousmode if Triggered. Mysterious would be Rachel, who through the first 3 games managed to spoil absolutely nothing about her real agenda, or what's really going on with her.
Versatile would be Tao, who can be funny, silly, but also serious or considerate, and often at unexpected moments.
Hazama trolls people a lot. I guess that's the main reason why people like him as much.
But that's just as much of a ''cliche'' as any of the other characters personalities. You know other then Tao who's just...Tao. I guess you could call her cliche too, since she's a cliche of a character voiced by Saitou Chiwa.
Ofcourse, since its pretty much literally impossible not to be cliche at this point in time, who cares really?
Since when does Rachel have an actual job in the story, instead of having a purpose/agenda of her own? Young Rachel/Clavis have less of an actual purpose in those events then Celica, Nina, Platinum or Mitsuyoshi do.
Or is this ''themes'' again? If that's the case I'm kind of wondering if you arent just removing anyone from the plot that feels ''unneeded'' to you.
Might as well remove Mitsuyoshi and Platinum, they were unneeded too, right?
Which brings me to the interesting thought, what would happen if Ragna went back without Celica. Because for Ragna the biggest thing about Chronophantasma was gaining a new purpose, and learning to use the grimoire in moderation.
Or would you also say, that Ragna is also unneeded for the story?
Sorry, I only watched half of them, my apologies. I mean they are gag reels, not ment to hold plot relevant information.
Unless Ragna x Jin is canon? Or Relius x Hazama (lol)
No idea what those are.
Perhaps I'm not experienced enough, for enough. But I think it's a fair estimate that there arent many. Or if talking better stories, none. Ofcourse, that's just my guess.
I'm not really one to dedicate myself to read every sidework of a franchise.
I guess thats your perspective on that then. Noel didnt particularly strike me as ''over fanservice-y'' for a fighting game. Quick lacking (haha) in that regards in fact.
Contrast Litche, who more fits the picture you describe here.
Or Bang (why are we only talking about female characters when mentioning fan service?).
She has quite a bit of depth. With your favorite Hazama, in fact. Remember, she's one of the six heroes. In fact, the presence of her character provides extra background for Hazama.
She was also ''forced to be important'' because she was made needed to attack Terumi.
Again, I wont bother reading CF spoilers, since you know: most of us havent played that yet. This isnt the CF forums. For us here its still ''Fiction''
Celica is literally forced to be important, in the story, by Kokonoe who ressed her for that exact reason. So yeah, you are right about that. But how does that make her less of a ''real character with a place in the story'' then anyone else?
Because she is just a fake character? (haha)
You know I just realised the parallells of this discussion and some of the story.
Ah...how to say..to some extent, those lovely girls' "task" is to abtract people. However, I don't think the themes they cover are dull and simple. Especially Noel and Tsubaki. Noel has complicated abilities and stories, moreover, she is a girl who need to overcome her hesitating nature and get the real courage to do sth. Tsubaki also has her shortcoming though she persents herself as a excellent student. Yes, those dark style man like Hazama have their unique charm but you can't deny other character's charm because of "Fans Service". I think fansservice is only a part of the girls, their themes comprise much more.
Get. On. My. Level. :3c
3 acts are released long ago, all the translations are available on the Dustloop. And they are hidden under the spoiler forum code, no one would see them if they wouldn't point right at them.
Sorry, but why do you even argue about BB's plot\characters when you don't know a huge slice of it?
"Sheep" in its political meaning. All these people who are being brainwashed by their country and have a false idea of justice based on it. Tsubaki fits right in.
Depends on what do we mean under the fanservice. Usually it is everything that was made to please audience. BB generally uses two types of fanservice - typical skimpy\cute females and references. I can see BB's dolls being a reference to Persona or JJBA. To answer your question - I was mostly refering to how they are animated without of thought to "sexualize" them, I didn't mean what you're trying to imply.
Looks like you can't really see the difference between Hazama and Terumi. More than that, you're treating them as one character with two sides. That was relevant during CT\CS, not nowadays.
Hazama kept the fact that he's far more than just Terumi's body for 3 games. Even from the person who, according to the story, created him. Only Jin managed to realize that something is weird and asked Hakumen in CP about who Hazama was in Haku's timeline. That tops Rachel easily.
Your guess is wrong, but it is a matter of preference. Give a shot to other japanese fighting games and find that out for yourself.
No. Then I would remove Taokaka, Platinum, Azrael, Arakune and few others characters. They are not very important to the plot and their themes are rather simple yet I find them well-made and entertaining with Azrael being my favorite BB character.
He's the main character and will play a major role in CF, so we can only wait for our Lord and Savior Naoto to replace him.
Noel's personality is extremely fanservice-like too. Poor, shy girl with revealing clothes, to me that's not a very good character design.
He can only be considered as fanservice at the reference department(which apparently makes him one of the best BB chars). I've never seen a female that liked Bang in a sexual way lol.
Kazuma = Hazama is a myth. It was confirmed at the Bururaji BlazBlue Radio long ago. So, she does not. And you're mistaking Trinity Glassfield and Platinum the Trinity, we would get Kazuma's background even without of Platinum.
It's not a fiction for anyone who was following the arcade release for quite a while already. It's okay to wait for the console release, just don't act like arcade version does not exist.
Let's sum it up:
Celica is a character that has pure fanservice personality and schoolgirl appearance. She is not suitable as fighter, so the doll fights for her instead. That already feels kind of forced, even though the concept is interesting(yet, she ends up being a very basic character with low learning curve, in order to appeal to the new players who got the game because they like the fanservice that she provides, makes sense right?). And to top this, she acts as a plot device both in CP and CF and in the both cases the changes that she brings in cannot be classified as the logical or positive ones. Therefore, I don't think that she is a well-made character story-wise.
No one argues that both Tsubaki and Izayoi are well-made gamepay-wise. It's just their story counterparts, they're not on the same level.
I always get that feeling whenever I end up against Carl again. He feels so insignificant in the story, and then in Arcade/fights he's like ''oh you thought I was a none factor! Haha! Nee-San!''
And then I'm like ''oh yeah he's actually kind of annoying to fight''
And Tager's even worse. Hell Tager, pfff.
She is indeed not suitable as a fighter. In fact the only reason she is a playable character is precisely because of Fanservice. Just like Kokonoe. That's also the reason why both have rather silly/over the top moves.
But why is her having a ''schoolgirl'' appearance a bad thing, exactly? What about her personality makes it a ''fanservice personality''. And why is this a bad thing?
I don't quite get that.
People important to the plot tend to also function as a plot device. That's kind of natural, I would think.
Well, bearing in mind I dont know what happens in CF yet, so I might feel either way about that. But in Chrono Phantasma, I found the changes she brought to Ragna's perspective to be positive. It added more to Ragna's character.
Then you should know quite well that the arcade version has 3 (chapters?), and that the arcade Arcs are always only a small portion of the entire story. And often different realities/shifts/interventions from the main story.
If someone were to play all the Arcade Routes in Chrono Phantasma, but not the Story Mode, the story would make no sense at all, because of the background and contex would be missing.
Anyway, I never acted like Arcade doesnt exist.I just think its pointless to use arguments of things that happen in games that arent even released here.
Oh, some sidestories I've never heard about are suddenly important parts of the plot?
Playing the main games should be good enough for anyone that wants to argue about the plot or characters, I would think.
"Sheep" in its political meaning. All these people who are being brainwashed by their country and have a false idea of justice based on it. Tsubaki fits right in.[/quote]
Don't need to be literal, your meaning was understood.
The question was why Tsubaki, who you previously said had the theme of ''Justice'', is now themed as a ''sheep''.
Isnt that exactly what I said tho? Hakumen is literally Justice. (force of order) Tsubaki only believes to uphold Justice. So while you can definately say Hakumen has Justice as his theme, in Tsubaki case its more like part of per personality, rather then ''the sum of what she is''
Then your perspective on Fanservice is pretty narrow, if you mind me saying.
Because I dont see you taking note of skimpy/cool males. Azrael with his beard, and bared chest. Bang with his bared chest. (did you noticed he loses most of his cloths after using his Astral Heat?) The way Carl looks all cute and hugable in the flash backs.
Like all of the dialogue from Jin to Ragna.
Thing is tho, games like these have some level of fanservice applied to everyone. Female or male characters both.
In addition references asides, half the dialogue (almost all the dialogue thats not directly plot related) is pretty much fanservice.
That said, you mentioned Noel's early looks being fanservicy when compared to 'other contenders' like Litchi she was rather...plain looking.
Her clothes were not that revealing earlier in the story tho, back when her personality really was 100% shy. I cant really call her personality fan-service much because she is one of only three characters to experience actual character growth over the course of the series.
(the other two being Jin and Ragna) Nothing wrong with being a shy person either, and they did actually give her a background that makes sense to why she would be like that.
But indeed, her other forms clothing is 100% fanservice. I dont want it detracting enough from her value as character tho.
Question, why would you consider Azrael a well made character but not Noel?
Azrael doesnt give a damn (100% opposite of shy), his cloths are more revealing then Noels (apart from her other form) and because of plot importance where others need OP magic weapons, he uses his hands.
(that's not my dislike of the character speaking by the way, just trying to put things in perspective)
I'm not sure how you can take that from my post, considering the things I previously wrote about the two.
I've played XBlaze. Altho I'm quite aware of things not being the same, because of that story I'm now quite aware of the differences between Terumi and Hazama (or rather, confirmed my suspicions)
If you think Hazama only trolls and is never serious ever, perhaps its you that doesnt know him as well as you think. ;p Terumi on the other hand is never serious, or trolling. He's just crazy.
That sounds like a yes. :P
Still, if someone doesnt like Ragna as a character, it makes sense that characters closely related to him, like Noel or Celica, or also disliked.
Fanservice is not just sexual stuff. Take the Gag Endings. Pure fanservice, but what happens isnt usually something in a sexual way.
Altho yeah, Bangs exposed chest is just as sexual as Noel's skipy ''what I transformed! I'm stronger now, why do I have less clothes?!''
Just to (mostly) different people.
That doesnt matter. They were still closely related in regards to the Six Heroes 'story'
I wasnt even referring to Kazuma with my earlier remark.
As for mistaking the two. Platinum is pure fanservice. But it's pure fanservice of Trinity Glassfield. You can't really disconnect the two...in Chrono Phantasma or Continuum Shift.
A good metaphore would be...Platinum is like Noel's skimpy outfit. There's no reason for it to be there other then fanservice.
I mean obviously Trinity would need a vessel, and Noel would need *something* to wear. But it doesnt have to be a loli mahou shoujo or a skimpy outfit. But I dont think either detracts from the value of their respective characters. Even if they are both unquestionably fanservice.
I mean do you judge women by that wear that much? Meanwhile Azrael can appear in front of you half naked but its fine?
(dont take that too serious, again its just to provide perspective :P)
ps:
Sorry if my order of responding is a bit confusing~
Barely anyone finds this design interesting. That's about it. Her personality is just way too nice to the point when it's actually annoying. Characters generally have a skeleton in their closets, but the only skeleton that Celica has is her sister.
I'll just say that CF's arcade works totally different compared to the previous games that were meant to be the "teasers" with a bit of "what if". Story is probably going to have first 3 Acts remastered with VN cutscenes and Act 4, Act 5 and so on.
Yes, they are important, and no, they are not the side stories. Phase Shift series are the prequel and Bloodedge Experience is very important for CF story. There's even a CD drama about Hakumen's timeline and it's pretty important too. ASW loves to milk their fans so why would they ever include everything in the main games? Though I'm pretty sure that we're getting Bloodedge experience VN adaptation for CF.
He has a great voice, I like his design, I find the idea of the characters that limit themselves very interesting, he constantly does something amazing and the main selling point there is that he's the fanservice character done right - a walking reference to Hokuto no Ken.
Yet, he is very plain and simple story-wise, I just personaly like him more than he objectively deserves.
Then, your previous post was "unclear" for me and I didn't get what did you try to say. Still, Hazama isn't that simple, but since you didn't read\see some of BB "sources" I can see why you think of him like that. Also I wouldn't try to analyze Terumi until the story will actually reveal why did he change from Amaterasu's guard to this.
Did I even say a word about Litchi, Bullet, Murakumo Units, Makoto, Kokonoe and other females with fairly revealing outfits? I didn't, so why are you asking this? Even if Celica and Noel wore something more conservative, we're still dealing with their personalities that, as I already wrote many times, are quite flawed.
Once again, I'm against body shaming of drawn characters. Lol.
That's basically how I feel about Celica. She's no character like Rachel or Hazama that activates plottwist after plottwist.
Or you could say she's more plot device then plot device-user.
But, I do like her design, her character, her voice. And the idea of a character cares mostly about others instead of themself, which is quite rare in the BlazBlue story. I think she fits nicely as a character that brings the others closer to eachother, and makes them seem more 'normal', or 'human'.
I do not think naoto will become the new protagonist of the series.
Because probably after CF will have to return to his world, and even if I become, we should say goodbye to 99% of the current cast.
At this point, better to finish the series blazblue and restart with a new franchise.
nice spoil xd
Mori stated that this is the end of the Ragna's story. And we all know that BB is going to get through the Xrd style reboot(no one is going to bother with the extreme high res sprites for the new consoles, BB looks pretty meh on PS4 already), and what better place than the BE timeline you can find? Not only it has some of the playable fan favorites already, but it allows to add some other BB characters by some bs reason too.