Necromancer build - useless?

[Bullett00th]

I've played through the original with the Harbinger build and it was great. Teleport slash alone made for an amazing offensive/evasive ability which Death direly needs due to the simple evade move not being as reliable as War's block.

Now that I've started Deathinitive I decided to go with the Necromancer build to see how it plays and... well... it's been relatively useless so far (though I'm only lvl 8).

Aegis Guard is somewhat helpful and I imagine it will become better further on, but the ghouls are only good at tanking smaller enemies so that I have an easier time dealing with larger groups. They die quickly though and overall don't seem like too much of help.

Am I doing something wrong, will it get better later on or is the Necro tree blatantly worse than Harbinger?

[fallofman]

from what i remember its level 20 when it shines and buffing magic with the bklue stone combos you get a few ghouls kicking butt at lvl 40 with a arcane orange sycthe its like a flood of nephliem death!

[DeathWantsMore]

It's just utility build, it loses in raw damage to harbinger for sure, but later you'll be be just summoning stuff and watch enemies die. Just get arcane gear with A/ACD.

And... Level 8? Tbh harbinger lvl 8 sucks just as well.

[Bullett00th]

is there a skill branch you'd recommend ignoring in the necro tree? cause I'd really love that teleport slash, especially seeing that it will benefit from arcane boosts

[DeathWantsMore]

I'd recommend to max everything gholus related and skip crows or shield, it's your personal preference.

[studdugie]

First a little correction. Arcane does not boost teleport slash damage directly. The only effect it can have is if teleport slash's elemental effects (fire, frost, explosive) proc. So if u want to make teleport slash stronger invest in strength, crit damage, and crit percentage instead of arcane. But if u did that u might as well do a harbinger build instead.

Now to your specific question about a necromancer build. Early game, summoning ghouls is not great compared to the same skill points spent on teleport slash. But once u get to lvl 15 the power of necro will start becoming apparent if you do the following:
1. Work the "Sticks and Stones" quest and start boosting arcane crit dmg (never boost acrane crit chance w/ stones).

2. Kill Beathir and get his lvl 15 Beathir's Talon scythe (this weapon will out damage a possessed inferno scythe until u get to about lvl 20; that's how good it's special ability makes it).

3. As best u can wear gear that boosts acrane crit dmg, arcane crit chance, and arcane.

The reason why this is effective is that the dmg multiplier effect on Beathir's talon starts getting nutty as your arcane and arcane crit dmg stats increase. That said arcane crit chance is absolutely essential for this or any necromancer build to be effective because if arcane crits aren't procing then the arcane crit dmg boost will never get applied.

As for where to spend your skill points, go straight down the ghoul tree. Do not go down the right branch of the ghouls because in practice it has been my experience that those skills are useless compared to spending them on Ageis Guard.

Once u get to lvl 22 and NG+1 the arcane, arcane crit dmg, and arcane crit chance stats that u can apply to possed weapons will take your necromancer from good to INSANE! Your ghouls will wreck sh*t. They'll kill things so fast sometime that you won't even have a chance to hit the enemy w/ your scythes. For an example of this search YouTube for "op crit necro build" and a vid from KnightV777 should be in the results. Skip to the end to see the havoc a crit necro Death will wreck on his enemies.

Finally, I had the same questions you asked when I started playing this game. Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation on the net about this game and its mechanics. To that end I was thinking about doing a playthrough video covering this stuff. If anyone is interested let me know.

[Bullett00th]

thx for the advice.

I did mean boosting the teleport slash elemental traits, therefore I'd like to invest some points into that and ignore some stuff from the necro tree.

why are crows useless though? I've actually been thinking about ignoring Aegis guard instead

[studdugie]

Crows are not useless at all. The one weakness ghouls have is that enemies w/ high damage A.O.E attacks can take out your ghouls in one blow (e.g., Archon). The crows don't have that problem. Plus crows can freeze enemies in a block of ice and hit air borne ones. So in combination ghouls and crows allows Death to walk into a room and summon them then turn his back and make a phone call or eat a sandwich. And by the time he presses send or takes a bite everything is dead. Of course this is all prediicated on having an insanely high arcane stat, arcane crit dmg % (> 350), and 100% arcane crit chance. Because what is happening here is EVERY hit done by your minions is a critical hit boosted by your insanely high arcane crit dmg stat. In essence the DPS that your minions can deliver is significantly higher than what you can achieve by just swinging your scythes.

Aegis guard is good because its sub-skills jacks up your arcane and arcane dmg stats even more, plus it has lightening. Come on, who in their right mind doesn't want to wield the power of lightning? In all seriousness though lightning is a good defensive skill because it has the ability to interupt an enemies attack (think stun). Plus you can walk into a room full of breakable objects and the lightning will break them for you. Which is pretty darn cool.

[Migz - DH]

Originally posted by studdugie:

Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation on the net about this game and its mechanics. To that end I was thinking about doing a playthrough video covering this stuff. If anyone is interested let me know.

Have you read my Guide which covers how stats are used in DSII? If not, you might find it covers a lot of what you're thinking about.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=548601339

[studdugie]

Originally posted by Migz - DH:

Originally posted by studdugie:

Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation on the net about this game and its mechanics. To that end I was thinking about doing a playthrough video covering this stuff. If anyone is interested let me know.

Have you read my Guide which covers how stats are used in DSII? If not, you might find it covers a lot of what you're thinking about.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=548601339

I did read it but I discovered it after reading the garbage on the net and a couple non informative YouTube videos. But let's be honest, most gamers aren't on Steam and will search YouTube first. So if I want to be helpful to the most people a YouTube video may be the way to go. But if there is no interest then I won't waste my time because people won't find it.

[Migz - DH]

<shrug> Either way.

I have had over 10,000 people view the one I made for the original release though (I have one in each game's Guide section).
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=125935238
That one is the top google result when searching for "darksiders ii stats".

[Bullett00th]

thanks for the guide.

Still, I'm having a terrible time without the teleport slash. I've barely survived a small arena in the Nook that spawns a load of prawlers that lunge themselves towards you and you have no chance of avoiding EVEN if two zombies are tanking several of them.

And then it spawns two stalkers with a few more prawlers right after. I don't remember a single fight that difficult in the original just due to being unable to avoid damage no matter how much you jump around and try stunning the bastards.

[Lord Lovius]

Originally posted by Bullett00th:

thanks for the guide.

Still, I'm having a terrible time without the teleport slash. I've barely survived a small arena in the Nook that spawns a load of prawlers that lunge themselves towards you and you have no chance of avoiding EVEN if two zombies are tanking several of them.

And then it spawns two stalkers with a few more prawlers right after. I don't remember a single fight that difficult in the original just due to being unable to avoid damage no matter how much you jump around and try stunning the bastards.

That fight gave me trouble too. the biggest weakness that necro has at low levels is that you really need your ghouls to do most of the damage and it's hard to have enough wrath to keep casting them. I would recommend having the ability that makes them generate wrath and then let them do the work and just dodge alot. it's rough but doable. also keep in mind you can always come back and do the quest later it's not a required one.

Also keep in mind that teleport slash doesn't recover that much and leaves you slightly vulnerable afterwards. try to use it right after an enemy attack so you have time to recover from it and dodge their next attack. It also usually takes you through enemies so make sure there's clear space on the other side so you aren't charging right into another attack. The problem with that fight is the small size of the arena. You can try getting some of the AOE attacks that just hit around you, it might work bettter in the small area.

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by Lord Lovius:

That fight gave me trouble too. the biggest weakness that necro has at low levels is that you really need your ghouls to do most of the damage and it's hard to have enough wrath to keep casting them. I would recommend having the ability that makes them generate wrath and then let them do the work and just dodge alot. it's rough but doable. also keep in mind you can always come back and do the quest later it's not a required one.

Also keep in mind that teleport slash doesn't recover that much and leaves you slightly vulnerable afterwards. try to use it right after an enemy attack so you have time to recover from it and dodge their next attack. It also usually takes you through enemies so make sure there's clear space on the other side so you aren't charging right into another attack. The problem with that fight is the small size of the arena. You can try getting some of the AOE attacks that just hit around you, it might work bettter in the small area.

It's not JUST the size of the arena, but i'd say the sheer amount of enemies. No matter how much I try controlling them and even keep my wrath levels high enough to keep spawning ghouls, I get lunged at from offscreen which is annoying to say the least. After dying like 5 times and finally beating them, my game froze. Just epic)))

As for the teleport slash - I know about recovery - but at least it lets me evade THROUGH enemy attacks.


Come to think of it, I find it ridiculous how little crowd control Death has compared to War weilding Death's scythe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AOzQTUvP-I

[Lord Lovius]

Originally posted by Bullett00th:

Originally posted by Lord Lovius:

That fight gave me trouble too. the biggest weakness that necro has at low levels is that you really need your ghouls to do most of the damage and it's hard to have enough wrath to keep casting them. I would recommend having the ability that makes them generate wrath and then let them do the work and just dodge alot. it's rough but doable. also keep in mind you can always come back and do the quest later it's not a required one.

Also keep in mind that teleport slash doesn't recover that much and leaves you slightly vulnerable afterwards. try to use it right after an enemy attack so you have time to recover from it and dodge their next attack. It also usually takes you through enemies so make sure there's clear space on the other side so you aren't charging right into another attack. The problem with that fight is the small size of the arena. You can try getting some of the AOE attacks that just hit around you, it might work bettter in the small area.

It's not JUST the size of the arena, but i'd say the sheer amount of enemies. No matter how much I try controlling them and even keep my wrath levels high enough to keep spawning ghouls, I get lunged at from offscreen which is annoying to say the least. After dying like 5 times and finally beating them, my game froze. Just epic)))

As for the teleport slash - I know about recovery - but at least it lets me evade THROUGH enemy attacks.


Come to think of it, I find it ridiculous how little crowd control Death has compared to War weilding Death's scythe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AOzQTUvP-I

there is a combo that you can get for the scythe that will allow you to send it spinning around you to help a bit with the crowd control. besides even though death has less range with his small scythes then war had with the big one, it also swings alot faster.

By the way what are you using for your secondary? you might think of switching types just to let you get in and out of combos faster and avoid those off screen hits

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by Lord Lovius:

By the way what are you using for your secondary? you might think of switching types just to let you get in and out of combos faster and avoid those off screen hits

I am, and they're gauntlets. I haven't really used them during my first Harbinger-specced walkthrough so I'm focusing on them now. Great tools for fast attacks and getting back wrath, also quite effective in air combat.
Terrible at crowd control obviously.