Ymir is a bit OP dont you think?

[Pak0tac]

I tried pretty much all the gods in the game, many of them are mastered.
Im pretty good with most of them, but i must admit, Ymir is probabley the esiest God and the top most OP. as Guardian he have high defence and sustain, and strong de-buffs, just like any guardian should have, but... his passive is X2 damage to all chilled targets, which is WAY OP, considering his ulti does a normal 1K damage...

Now to compare, Ra is a nuker, all his skills are focusing on pure damage with a little bit
fo healing on the side, but ALL HIS SKILLS doing half the damage of what Ymir do.

Artemish, even with her criticals, she will need at least 5 critical hits to get the damage
Ymir do in a single ulti, and even then it will be to just to a single target.

Thenatos, assasin, his 1 + 2 combo do a total of about 700 damage, to a single target

Ymir: 1000+ damage and slow debuff to ALL ENEMIES around him
if chilled its 2000+ damage

Yesturday i had 7 games in a row with Ymir where we completley dominated the enemy
even when there were noobs and feeders in our team, hell, we won 3 vs 5....
5 out of those 7 games, the enemy team surrended after 15 min beause we just raped them so hard

[TheGooeyBeans]

Origineel geplaatst door Proprietor:

Hes OP...but in a good way...been saying this forever

There's a difference between "strong" and "overpowered." Ymir is strong.

Being OP implies that a god has a set of skills so incredibly broken that if your team has that character and they are played remotely competently, odds are your team wins. In no way does Ymir match this criteria.

[Yumeno]

I personally hate fighting Ymir the most out of all gods. I find him annoying and I always lose against him, but I don't think he is OP.

[TheGooeyBeans]

Origineel geplaatst door Yulen:

I personally hate fighting Ymir the most out of all gods. I find him annoying and I always lose against him, but I don't think he is OP.

^This. He is a pain to face as he is so well rounded.

[BinBagLover]

Origineel geplaatst door The Gooey Beans:

Origineel geplaatst door Flandre Scarlet:

Not forgotten, it's just really bad and a complete waste of an item slot.

It's a luxury item for late game supports. I would hardly say +60 Magical Power and +50 Physical Protections with a sweet passive is "really bad."

Just because something isn't used often does not mean it doesn't have a place. Do your research.

I say this all the time but you may as well whisper it in a dead tramps ear. If it isnt at the SPL then its complete junk. Even though you see plenty of bad builds at the SPL, some really trash ones as well (top marks for buying valor when you are already capped on CDR and they have one physical).

Its a solid item. Hide of the Urchin is another great item, rarely see it used. Mail of Renewal is another great one. I also notice Greeves are rare to see, yet they are the only item in the entire game that offers CC reduction, yet people act like they are crap.

I think a lot of people just copy builds or have a few core items they know and just chuck them on any god they use. They never check the scaling on the abilities or the hit chain or the scaling on their inhand attacks, just stick rage and deathbringer on anything that can use it, regardless if it works for the god or not.

[TheGooeyBeans]

Origineel geplaatst door Atra Mors:

Origineel geplaatst door The Gooey Beans:

It's a luxury item for late game supports. I would hardly say +60 Magical Power and +50 Physical Protections with a sweet passive is "really bad."

Just because something isn't used often does not mean it doesn't have a place. Do your research.

I say this all the time but you may as well whisper it in a dead tramps ear. If it isnt at the SPL then its complete junk. Even though you see plenty of bad builds at the SPL, some really trash ones as well (top marks for buying valor when you are already capped on CDR and they have one physical).

Its a solid item. Hide of the Urchin is another great item, rarely see it used. Mail of Renewal is another great one. I also notice Greeves are rare to see, yet they are the only item in the entire game that offers CC reduction, yet people act like they are crap.

I think a lot of people just copy builds or have a few core items they know and just chuck them on any god they use. They never check the scaling on the abilities or the hit chain or the scaling on their inhand attacks, just stick rage and deathbringer on anything that can use it, regardless if it works for the god or not.

Mail of Renewal, even with its current "nerf" (lost 50 HP) is one of the best defensive items in the game, bar none. Statistically, a support can strike a great balance between tankiness and offensive capability by purchasing Hide of the Urchin (like you said, underrated) and Heartward Amulet. Tack on offensive items like CDR Boots, Gem of Isolation, and Ethereal Staff and you will be fearsome.

Copy paste builds are the worst - it shows a complete lack of understanding of game mechanics. The entire game is about counterbuilding...look at Smite like a more advanced version of "Rock, Paper, Scissors."

[TheGooeyBeans]

I strongly encourage all Smite players to look at Krett's (pro coach) YouTube videos and weekly discussion on the Smite Reddit. You will learn so much, and just applying some basic tips from him will result in instant improvement.

[BinBagLover]

Origineel geplaatst door The Gooey Beans:

Origineel geplaatst door Atra Mors:

I say this all the time but you may as well whisper it in a dead tramps ear. If it isnt at the SPL then its complete junk. Even though you see plenty of bad builds at the SPL, some really trash ones as well (top marks for buying valor when you are already capped on CDR and they have one physical).

Its a solid item. Hide of the Urchin is another great item, rarely see it used. Mail of Renewal is another great one. I also notice Greeves are rare to see, yet they are the only item in the entire game that offers CC reduction, yet people act like they are crap.

I think a lot of people just copy builds or have a few core items they know and just chuck them on any god they use. They never check the scaling on the abilities or the hit chain or the scaling on their inhand attacks, just stick rage and deathbringer on anything that can use it, regardless if it works for the god or not.

Mail of Renewal, even with its current "nerf" (lost 50 HP) is one of the best defensive items in the game, bar none. Statistically, a support can strike a great balance between tankiness and offensive capability by purchasing Hide of the Urchin (like you said, underrated) and Heartward Amulet. Tack on offensive items like CDR Boots, Gem of Isolation, and Ethereal Staff and you will be fearsome.

Copy paste builds are the worst - it shows a complete lack of understanding of game mechanics. The entire game is about counterbuilding...look at Smite like a more advanced version of "Rock, Paper, Scissors."

I cannot count the number of times Mail of AWESOME has saved my life. So many unhappy thanas, end game when the kills and assists start rolling in and it keeps you nicely topped up.

I think people greatly undervalue how effective a large health pool can be as well, mages dont get crit so you can kinda plan their damage and know what you need. I used to go pure power on everything bar tanks and whilst you could kill things easy enough, I would often die during that. Bit of defense in mind on every build and I can just keep pushing and pushing. I honestly think most of the items in this game are of use, just have to work it into the right build and as you say, pay attention to the enemy comp and builds (mages NEVER get defense, so even a full on tank with a single offensive item can eat them up)

[Flopple]

Origineel geplaatst door The Gooey Beans:

Origineel geplaatst door Flandre Scarlet:

Not forgotten, it's just really bad and a complete waste of an item slot.

It's a luxury item for late game supports. I would hardly say +60 Magical Power and +50 Physical Protections with a sweet passive is "really bad."

Just because something isn't used often does not mean it doesn't have a place. Do your research.

Magical power is not good on tanks (Obviously), so why would I want it on a tank item? 50 physical protections is alright but the item doesn't give any health, so you're basically just buying it for it's passive and the 50 protections. On top of that the passive negates the damage on one crit once until six seconds has passed, which is not good, you'd be far better off just buying a Midguardian and getting an amazing passive with better stats.

You tell me to do my research but it seems like you are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about.

[EmethSAS]

Origineel geplaatst door Flandre Scarlet:

Magical power is not good on tanks (Obviously)

Not sure why this is so obvious. I think this is the disconnect here...

Origineel geplaatst door The Gooey Beans:

It's a luxury item for late game supports.

I'm not sure that magical power is "not good" on tanks, just more often that it is more important for tanks to be tanky... Hence why Beans classifies it as a "luxury" item. You aren't going to build it early, because magical power is not efficient enough on tanks over the course of the whole game (and therefore less valuable). But, if you need 1 last item that gives you a little extra offensive power to siege their Titan when you're already winning with the defensive items you already have? That can still be useful.

Blanket statements like "Tanks should never build damage" are just shortsighted. Yes, tanks need to be tanky, so you want to make sure you're covering your bases in that regard and in 95% of games you won't need to buy it (hence it being a "luxury" item), because magical power is less valuable on tanks. However, it is still a great option to have in game for those few times when it can actually be useful. More variety in options is better than less variety just because of some silly restrictive build rules, especially if you are actually counter-building rather than copy-pasting from a guide...

[Flopple]

It honestly is straight up a bad item, it'll negate a single crit once every six seconds, and for that you give up protections and health that would likely more than make up for that single negated crit, plus a passive for whatever item you took over Celestial. In addition to that, it's more expensive than the four core physical protection items other than Mystical Mail. So yeah, bad item.

[Here->profiles/76561198014546125]

Not a discussion I expected from one of the first Gods in the game. There are much more powerful tanks than Ymir, he just has a good crowd control. When you could build phys items on him, yes, he was OP with a Deathbringer; fun times though.

CD/Aura Ares is much more annoying with his defense AOE and the ability to almost spam his ult and force buy beads on the enemy team. His chains are just as potent as Ymirs freeze when used by a good player. (There are more examples, but Ares has stayed just about the same and has been around as long as Ymir)

All have their role, and it sounds like you were outplayed. No offense.

[TheGooeyBeans]

Origineel geplaatst door EmethSAS -TPF-:

Origineel geplaatst door Flandre Scarlet:

Magical power is not good on tanks (Obviously)

Not sure why this is so obvious. I think this is the disconnect here...

Origineel geplaatst door The Gooey Beans:

It's a luxury item for late game supports.

I'm not sure that magical power is "not good" on tanks, just more often that it is more important for tanks to be tanky... Hence why Beans classifies it as a "luxury" item. You aren't going to build it early, because magical power is not efficient enough on tanks over the course of the whole game (and therefore less valuable). But, if you need 1 last item that gives you a little extra offensive power to siege their Titan when you're already winning with the defensive items you already have? That can still be useful.

Blanket statements like "Tanks should never build damage" are just shortsighted. Yes, tanks need to be tanky, so you want to make sure you're covering your bases in that regard and in 95% of games you won't need to buy it (hence it being a "luxury" item), because magical power is less valuable on tanks. However, it is still a great option to have in game for those few times when it can actually be useful. More variety in options is better than less variety just because of some silly restrictive build rules, especially if you are actually counter-building rather than copy-pasting from a guide...

I think Flandre is grasping at straws here. Magical power on tanks end game is hilarious. Power is never "bad" - I would be annoyed by a support that builds like a mid-laner (Rod of Tahuti, etc.), but a bit of power gives some extra bite to your abilities.

Celestial Legion Helm IS NOT the best item in the game, it's pretty average, actually, which is why I classified it as LUXURY. Get that through your skull, dude.

Also, tanks SHOULD build some damage or pen. Protections are a depreciating asset.

100 Prot ---> ~50% Reduced Damage
200 Prot ---> ~33% Reduced Damage
300 Prot ---> ~25% Reduced Damage

People who build into the 200-300+ range of protections are hilarious because they are tough to kill (obviously) but sacrifice so much and end up being a hugely reduced threat for damage output. Someone like Ymir who has very powerful abilities could technically get away with this, but Sylvanus DEFINITELY could not. Every support benefits greatly from building some damage. If I have 225 Prot each on Ymir and one item slot left open, I'm building a power/pen item.

Something overlooked all the time to is effective health. Something like Ethereal Staff can take the place of protections based on the huge amount of health and mana it gives you, plus it's passive gives a decent chunk of power.

[TheGooeyBeans]

100 Prot ---> ~50% Reduced Damage
200 Prot ---> ~33% Reduced Damage
300 Prot ---> ~25% Reduced Damage

By the way, this is rough math. It does not factor in penetration but is just being used to demonstrate that the more you spend on protections, the less you get for your money. This is why items like Titan's Bane and Obsidian Shard are so potent end game on super-tanks.

[Flopple]

Origineel geplaatst door The Gooey Beans:

Origineel geplaatst door EmethSAS -TPF-:

Not sure why this is so obvious. I think this is the disconnect here...


I'm not sure that magical power is "not good" on tanks, just more often that it is more important for tanks to be tanky... Hence why Beans classifies it as a "luxury" item. You aren't going to build it early, because magical power is not efficient enough on tanks over the course of the whole game (and therefore less valuable). But, if you need 1 last item that gives you a little extra offensive power to siege their Titan when you're already winning with the defensive items you already have? That can still be useful.

Blanket statements like "Tanks should never build damage" are just shortsighted. Yes, tanks need to be tanky, so you want to make sure you're covering your bases in that regard and in 95% of games you won't need to buy it (hence it being a "luxury" item), because magical power is less valuable on tanks. However, it is still a great option to have in game for those few times when it can actually be useful. More variety in options is better than less variety just because of some silly restrictive build rules, especially if you are actually counter-building rather than copy-pasting from a guide...

I think Flandre is grasping at straws here. Magical power on tanks end game is hilarious. Power is never "bad" - I would be annoyed by a support that builds like a mid-laner (Rod of Tahuti, etc.), but a bit of power gives some extra bite to your abilities.

Celestial Legion Helm IS NOT the best item in the game, it's pretty average, actually, which is why I classified it as LUXURY. Get that through your skull, dude.

Also, tanks SHOULD build some damage or pen. Protections are a depreciating asset.

100 Prot ---> ~50% Reduced Damage
200 Prot ---> ~33% Reduced Damage
300 Prot ---> ~25% Reduced Damage

People who build into the 200-300+ range of protections are hilarious because they are tough to kill (obviously) but sacrifice so much and end up being a hugely reduced threat for damage output. Someone like Ymir who has very powerful abilities could technically get away with this, but Sylvanus DEFINITELY could not. Every support benefits greatly from building some damage. If I have 225 Prot each on Ymir and one item slot left open, I'm building a power/pen item.

Something overlooked all the time to is effective health. Something like Ethereal Staff can take the place of protections based on the huge amount of health and mana it gives you, plus it's passive gives a decent chunk of power.

As a support your job is to frontline for your team and use your CC to lock the enemy down or otherwise disrupt them, your job is not to do damage unless you're a damaging support like Ymir or Ares, otherwise power has next to no benefit for you, and giving up an item slot for a Celestial legion helm over an item that gives you more protections and health for less gold makes no sense. I get that you seem to have a superiority complex that doesn't allow you to admit you're wrong, but I'm really just trying to stop new players from picking up bad items instead of things that actually benefit themselves and their team.

[TheGooeyBeans]

Origineel geplaatst door Flandre Scarlet:

As a support your job is to frontline for your team and use your CC to lock the enemy down or otherwise disrupt them, your job is not to do damage unless you're a damaging support like Ymir or Ares, otherwise power has next to no benefit for you, and giving up an item slot for a Celestial legion helm over an item that gives you more protections and health for less gold makes no sense. I get that you seem to have a superiority complex that doesn't allow you to admit you're wrong, but I'm really just trying to stop new players from picking up bad items instead of things that actually benefit themselves and their team.

Luxury item. LUXURY. As in, it won't make sense to buy it in 95% of games, and it's SITUATIONAL as a LAST ITEM.

Supports come stock with CC. Damaging as a support is essential, it's just important to know when to lay off so your teammates can grab the kills.

I get that you seem to have a superiority complex that doesn't allow you to think about things in a different way, but I'm really just trying to stop new players from using cookie cutter builds that are not appropriate in every game.