Surrender System SUX and needs overhaul.

[Naturgewalt]

This game needs one major improvement: Democracy.

Surrender votes should work like this:

3 YES, 2 NO -> Surrender
3 YES, 1 NO -> Surrender
0 No Votes, no matter how many Yes (up from 1 ) -> Surrender

Why? Because you can hardly play Solo/Random queue at all, because there are always 1-2 Trolls/Feeders/Flamers who constantly sabotage the surrender vote. That way you are STUCK with a game where the enemy is leading 10k gold+ for 20-30 mins just to watch people fail and surrender votes constantly fail. Ofc you cant do much of your own, because its a team game and u are constantly facing 5 ppl with only 1 or 2 allies -> game is complete torture.

The broken Surrender system of 3 YES 2 NO -> NO SURRENDER was already one of the major causes of outrage, flaming, leaving, afk or intentional feeding in League of Legends. BUT for some unknown reason Hi-Rez decided to copy that system.

MOBAs bred their spiteful and hating communities by themselves and that surrender vote system is one of the major reasons for that.

Also, there should be a 5 min surrender vote, where there are 4 YES Votes needed to surrender (or 0 No Votes). Because some people start feeding or trolling even from the Game Lobby.
Like 2 Mid, 2 Solo, 2 Jungle, No Jungle, AFK, intentionally feeding from start.

This would greatly improve the gaming experience. Its also not FUN from the winners perspective to endure such games.

[Beta Delta]

I disagree with you. I hate when people surrender because it then ruins the game. Everytime my team has surrendered it just ruined my fun just because they thought they would lose and quit too early. When my team is winning I don't like when the enemy surrenders because the match then ends to early and I am not satisfied. People say it is a waste of time to keep trying but when you surrender, you wasted everyone's time just by playing the entire match up to that moment. I like that it can't happen if 2 people vote no and the other are 3 yes. Now if a situation like yours was described, it would end pretty soon unless the enemy is intentionally stalling out match.

[Sully]

I've had multiple situations where people have tried to surrender, but 2 people F7, and we go on to have an epic comeback. You ask me, this game shouldnt really have a surrender option outside of conquest. My two cents though.

[Naturgewalt]

I agree that there can be comeback games. But from my experience out of like 250 games, that games are only like 10% of the games u most likely lose.

There is usually a "shift" in winning probability when the "lane phase" ends and the "team fight" phase or whatever begins. Teams can completely change the outcome then. But its still every 10th game of the ones you most likely use.

I feel its more common that people who are 0/4 - 0/10 before minute 10 will also be useless later. And that it stands no chance of winning if there are 3 of that kind. And still no surrender.

If I played 200 matches, won 120 (in my case with 1 god) and lost 80, only 8 of that lost games were really tight or close or could have been decided by just 1 good gank in mid/late game.
72 are lost in the first 5-10 mins with zero chance to come back ever.

EDIT: I also noticed, that beeing 4 vs 5 (for whatever reason like Solo Loki, ego playing noob or just AFK/Leaver) the chance to win teamfights is almost zero in mid/late game, while in early game to early mid game you can still win due to individual class or beeing fed. In mid/late u just screwed.

[Sully]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Naturgewalt:

I agree that there can be comeback games. But from my experience out of like 250 games, that games are only like 10% of the games u most likely lose.

There is usually a "shift" in winning probability when the "lane phase" ends and the "team fight" phase or whatever begins. Teams can completely change the outcome then. But its still every 10th game of the ones you most likely use.

I feel its more common that people who are 0/4 - 0/10 before minute 10 will also be useless later. And that it stands no chance of winning if there are 3 of that kind. And still no surrender.

If I played 200 matches, won 120 (in my case with 1 god) and lost 80, only 8 of that lost games were really tight or close or could have been decided by just 1 good gank in mid/late game.
72 are lost in the first 5-10 mins with zero chance to come back ever.

EDIT: I also noticed, that beeing 4 vs 5 (for whatever reason like Solo Loki, ego playing noob or just AFK/Leaver) the chance to win teamfights is almost zero in mid/late game, while in early game to early mid game you can still win due to individual class or beeing fed. In mid/late u just screwed.

If someone flat abandons, then the surrender button should be there, but only after an abandon. Much like CS:GO

[Naturgewalt]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Hitler Was My Hero:

If someone flat abandons, then the surrender button should be there, but only after an abandon. Much like CS:GO

I disagree. There are often players who are even worth than one Leaver/AFK. They do not understand even simple gameplay and do not even stack assists until the game is over. The dont put their gods to any use but still soak gold and XP away. And they are the ones most likely voting "No" because they want to "learn" the game. o_O
JUst an example. There are worse. Like those Premade Duo Laners pushing their lane non stop even in late game, not helping in team fights at all, but beeing ganked all the time.
Or the solo Lokis or Apollos "Split pushing" all the time while u lose any 4vs5 gank in the meantime.
List can be continued to the infinite.

[RecalledDread]

Oprindeligt skrevet af The Track Scout:

I disagree with you. I hate when people surrender because it then ruins the game. Everytime my team has surrendered it just ruined my fun just because they thought they would lose and quit too early. When my team is winning I don't like when the enemy surrenders because the match then ends to early and I am not satisfied. People say it is a waste of time to keep trying but when you surrender, you wasted everyone's time just by playing the entire match up to that moment. I like that it can't happen if 2 people vote no and the other are 3 yes. Now if a situation like yours was described, it would end pretty soon unless the enemy is intentionally stalling out match.

I personally think the surrender system is fine. But it really is wasting more time than neccessary if the game is just going to be a slow grind to a loss anyway. I would rather surrender, have break/queue up again, than spend another 20 minutes or so for a loss anyway. Now, it is possible to come back from a huge loss depending on situation, but I still don't want to have to spend 20+ minutes getting to that point since it isn't usually going to be fun if you are behind drastically. Sometimes both teams might be good, but one is just slightly better, not neccessarily stalling out the match.

[Naturgewalt]

Stalling matches are even fun and I enjoy them very much. I do not talk about stall, I talk about the fact, that you often need 20-30 mins to win if you are not the best organized winning team, even when the other team has ZERO chance to win on the field outside of the phoenixes.

[Hippopotamus]

There's a difference between asking to surrender with a 3k gold difference and 10k gold. In the latter it's going to be an automatic surrender for me unless we've pushed to the phoenix on 2 or more lanes / or if we have a superfed hypercarry (like a fed freya can win an entire match for the team against players having bad match/poor team composition). Continuing playing just because of a possible comeback is a waste of time in almost all cases. It's better to lick your wounds, learn from your mistakes and then try again. It has nothing to do with defeatist attitude, it's a game, not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ superbowl.

I'd just recommend playing ranked, there's probably less of this garbage "never surrender" attitude since people are already lvl 30. I've only done one match so far which ended with surrender (We didn't really play terribly tho tbh).

[Potato Doge ( ★ ★ ★ )]

Tbh, get five friends who don't mind doing a surrender, Me and one other friend who play a lot decided we would never surrender, he hates the mentality of it because to him it's giving up, and I originally decided not to surrender because there was some jerk who was like, "Oh, I've seen too many games where people surrender when it could have been pulled back." and then we proceeded to lose anyways after some time. So I was pretty annoyed his reason was he was overconfident, so I decided, "You know what, ♥♥♥♥ surrendering" and then overtime I realized there's a lot more reasons not to surrender. If you're playing a god you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate(I.E. I hate Apollo or Aphro) and the only reason you are playing them is you got them from a random roll in assault or to get that one more good in free rotation up to mastery, I could totally understand it if you honestly think your team is going to lose. And good for you, if I'm playing with only one of my friends who doesn't want to surrender, all you need is the other 3 votes and you've got it(Although one time we were laughing a bit when the surrender vote wouldn't get through because our 2 F7 votes were faster than their three F6 votes, so yeah, that needs some def work if we can abuse it like that)

But I have plenty of reasons why I don't surrender now compared to them.
First example if one game where me and one of my buddies were playing with some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Au Puch, he died like 3 times then suddenly quit and wouldn't move from under the phoenix, and actually went afk more often then not because of it. But then guess what happened? Me and my friend started doing a successful 2v3 and actually killed the enemy team two to three times by just us two.

And what happens, the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is afk/doesn't move from under the phoenix because he's too stupid to realize if he could have helped we could have won. So fast forward 10 minutes and they ended up figuring out how to deal with us two, and we lost.

Another reason why is I'm testing out custom builds or ideas, I had this one aphro ♥♥♥♥ who called me an idiot because I was joking around and seeing what I could do, then when I legit asked them if they wanted to 1v1, they got chickenshit and didn't reply(Probably because I winning 12-4 in 1v1 with bastet, even tho if they had intelligence they could have accepted, banned Bastet and I would have lost) after I unhid my profile so they could see my recent games.

Another reason if I know my team is bad and I want to make their day miserable because they are being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about losing(blaming others, etc), this one doesn't happen as much and generally happens in a blue moon where this reason is the biggest reason I don't surrender.

Point is, if you don't want to play games where you can't surrender, play with 1-2 other friends who will do the same as you, or play joust with 1 friend. Otherwise it's entirely up to the game to decide who you will get as teammates, and then it's up to them if they want to surrender or not.

P.S. Is sort of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that the surrender vote can get canceled by people voting now, I think it should last a full minute so everyone gets a decision in it, then if it gets 3 votes no or yes, it can be cancelled. Otherwise the scenario can happen where me and my friend were just hitting F7 faster than the team could hit F6.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Blezza:

I'd just recommend playing ranked, there's probably less of this garbage "never surrender" attitude since people are already lvl 30. I've only done one match so far which ended with surrender (We didn't really play terribly tho tbh).

I can't speak for Conquest Ranked, but 1v1 joust the majority of the time the enemy doesn't surrender.

Also, if you do play 1v1 Joust, learn multiple gods, I once had 5 games in a row against the same guy and he banned the only god I knew how to play on the 3rd match forward, then resurfaced his earlier salt because on one of the games I won I backdoored him and started going, "Oh, you suck as Bastet, you can't play because you backdoor, blah blah blah". Yeah no, it was more like I beat him because he couldn't defend against a backdoor properly coming from Bastet/Loki apparently(when he could against Mages)

Also, 9/10 anybody who says anything negative towards you is really just salty/pissed and thinks they are better than you, I've only seen one to two specific cases where I've seen someone actually help someone else in terms of playing after saying something negative towards them.

The good players who generally aren't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ won't say a thing to you unless you say something to them because it's commonplace for someone to be an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in this game.

Also, feel free to be salty towards an enemy who won, they shouldn't really care, because they won, and generally it's a small stress relief towards you from an aggravating match.

[Naturgewalt]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Blezza:

I'd just recommend playing ranked, there's probably less of this garbage "never surrender" attitude since people are already lvl 30. I've only done one match so far which ended with surrender (We didn't really play terribly tho tbh).

This game is almost 100% like LoL in 3D and so I dont have ANY hopes for ranked beeing any different too. But its maybe the only reason I want to reach lvl 30 (lvl 28 now) to see if its true.

Just had another of those matches. We lead all the way through midgame, but because people NEVER stick together we start falling back and then it takes almost another 20 mins to finally surrender.
Without surrender we would ve endured it for another 10 mins.

Fun? Not at all. Lane Phase was OK, but then it was pure torture. People doing Buffs, while the team is losing. GREAT!

[Hippopotamus]

I won't be playing 1v1 joust, seems pointless to me. This game isn't a 1v1 game and I have no idea how that even is a thing tbh. Seems very counter productive to what the game is about - teamwork.

[Hippopotamus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Naturgewalt:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Blezza:

Fun? Not at all. Lane Phase was OK, but then it was pure torture. People doing Buffs, while the team is losing. GREAT!

I've done that a few times, It's simply a lack of communication. If people started using curse voice that'd be a great start (Unless they use open mic, ♥♥♥♥ that, i'd rather die by torture)

( ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up quoting but whatever)

[DaniDelayed]

I agree with OP on the 3-1 and 3-2 votes being a surrender.
In almost every match that I do try and surrender, there is that one person who F7's and that other person that doesn't vote at all, thus making 3-1s VERY common and VERY frustrating.
If people have already F6'd, they don't see a comeback from the win, and will probably keep the "those f**ks f7'd this obviously-lost match", and not do as well.
I can understand wanting a comeback and that they do happen, but that's only about a 1/25 chance, really, and that chance, at least for me and others, aren't enough to subject to the pure torture of just slowly losing when you can do literally nothing.

[Jin-]

Trolls are those who spam surrender option all the time when there is still a chance. They just want quick escape without penalty. Fight to the death or not at all.

Just had amazing 50min match and we hold the Titan for 20 minutes while enemies had 3 towers + 3 phoenixes. In the end we won it by great come back and good defence. If it would have been those surrender when it looks hopeless trolls that game would have been boring, but now its my fav game i had in 20h

[Naturgewalt]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Jin-:

Trolls are those who spam surrender option all the time when there is still a chance. They just want quick escape without penalty. Fight to the death or not at all.

Just had amazing 50min match and we hold the Titan for 20 minutes while enemies had 3 towers + 3 phoenixes. In the end we won it by great come back and good defence. If it would have been those surrender when it looks hopeless trolls that game would have been boring, but now its my fav game i had in 20h

Those games happen, but they are extremly rare and I dont see that justifies an abysmal surrender vote system as it is now.