name a god more unfun to play against than persephone

[Dikshit Koomar]

you cant

[Fury2112]

Originally posted by Mossy Snake:

Originally posted by Fury2112:

she actually got nerfed and buffed so, you're wrong

Her ult got nerfed bad and in turn she got some small buffs to her plants, which are still easy as ♥♥♥♥ to juke and solve literally none of her problems. She's not a very strong goddess past the early game

you obviously have not played against a good persephone

[Mossy Snake]

Originally posted by Fury2112:

Originally posted by Mossy Snake:

Her ult got nerfed bad and in turn she got some small buffs to her plants, which are still easy as ♥♥♥♥ to juke and solve literally none of her problems. She's not a very strong goddess past the early game

you obviously have not played against a good persephone

I'm talking about the functionality of her kit

Regardless of how good a Persephone is, that does not change the fact that the way her plants function is terrible. The plants AI and behavior are so poor that you can literally run through them (or make an L shape if they come from the side) and their hitbox cannot hit you. This is not based on the skill of the player, this is AI out of their hands. Combined with her intentional weakness to rushdowns, this is a glaring issue that seriously hurts her viability and usability and needs to be fixed.

So much of her power budget went into her now-nerfed ult + passive and so much of her design went into her growth mechanic that they forgot to make a god who can function otherwise.

[Fury2112]

Originally posted by Mossy Snake:

Originally posted by Fury2112:

you obviously have not played against a good persephone

I'm talking about the functionality of her kit

Regardless of how good a Persephone is, that does not change the fact that the way her plants function is terrible. The plants AI and behavior are so poor that you can literally run through them (or make an L shape if they come from the side) and their hitbox cannot hit you. This is not based on the skill of the player, this is AI out of their hands. Combined with her intentional weakness to rushdowns, this is a glaring issue that seriously hurts her viability and usability and needs to be fixed.

So much of her power budget went into her now-nerfed ult + passive and so much of her design went into her growth mechanic that they forgot to make a god who can function otherwise.

you have no idea what you're talking about

[Smaugi]

Originally posted by Mossy Snake:

Originally posted by Fury2112:

you obviously have not played against a good persephone

I'm talking about the functionality of her kit

Regardless of how good a Persephone is, that does not change the fact that the way her plants function is terrible. The plants AI and behavior are so poor that you can literally run through them (or make an L shape if they come from the side) and their hitbox cannot hit you. This is not based on the skill of the player, this is AI out of their hands. Combined with her intentional weakness to rushdowns, this is a glaring issue that seriously hurts her viability and usability and needs to be fixed.

So much of her power budget went into her now-nerfed ult + passive and so much of her design went into her growth mechanic that they forgot to make a god who can function otherwise.

He's trolling you , is it so hard to see? Just stop arguing with him.

[Grok 3]

Originally posted by NOVOJ:

The rat before his rework. I miss the days of being able to 1v5 a team with a god so squishy and laugh in their faces while I do it...

[Grok 3]

all nerfs can be countered with builds stop using the old staple builds that are designed for conquest's long drawn out mode. unless you're a conquest player of course

[Fury2112]

Originally posted by Lord Gwyn:

Originally posted by Mossy Snake:

I'm talking about the functionality of her kit

Regardless of how good a Persephone is, that does not change the fact that the way her plants function is terrible. The plants AI and behavior are so poor that you can literally run through them (or make an L shape if they come from the side) and their hitbox cannot hit you. This is not based on the skill of the player, this is AI out of their hands. Combined with her intentional weakness to rushdowns, this is a glaring issue that seriously hurts her viability and usability and needs to be fixed.

So much of her power budget went into her now-nerfed ult + passive and so much of her design went into her growth mechanic that they forgot to make a god who can function otherwise.

He's trolling you , is it so hard to see? Just stop arguing with him.

Im trolling??

[Gambit]

for me it's playing mid vs anubis. that god is cheap and op early game. to make it worse most junglers are bad and don't help mid by ganking him a lot so he can fall behind but instead of helping they just say you are trash if you do bad. funny though when they do end up running into him alone they get wrekt too lol

[Mossy Snake]

Originally posted by Fury2112:

Originally posted by Mossy Snake:

I'm talking about the functionality of her kit

Regardless of how good a Persephone is, that does not change the fact that the way her plants function is terrible. The plants AI and behavior are so poor that you can literally run through them (or make an L shape if they come from the side) and their hitbox cannot hit you. This is not based on the skill of the player, this is AI out of their hands. Combined with her intentional weakness to rushdowns, this is a glaring issue that seriously hurts her viability and usability and needs to be fixed.

So much of her power budget went into her now-nerfed ult + passive and so much of her design went into her growth mechanic that they forgot to make a god who can function otherwise.

you have no idea what you're talking about

??? This is something people are complaining about all over the subreddit and something I've personally been able to do easily vs every persephone I come across. Her kit doesn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ work and the one actually functional ability she had - her ult - got nerfed hard over several updates. She's an actual ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ liability to a team because she requires so much setup to reach a point where she can earn the ability to fire off minions with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ AI and hitboxes than Nu Wa soldiers.

Actually pay attention to the awful functionality of her plants, until they aren't mechanically broken she's just an ult bot who's annoying to fight in the early game where she can set up more easily.

Originally posted by Lord Gwyn:

He's trolling you , is it so hard to see? Just stop arguing with him.

He's not trolling, he just disagrees with me and that's fine.

[NOVOJ]

Originally posted by Agent Zero:

for me it's playing mid vs anubis. that god is cheap and op early game. to make it worse most junglers are bad and don't help mid by ganking him a lot so he can fall behind but instead of helping they just say you are trash if you do bad. funny though when they do end up running into him alone they get wrekt too lol

Anubis is a tricky one. Good ganks are helpful for stopping him early yes but he is definitely easy to shut down by yourself. if you know for a fact the anubis is going down your lane grab purification and anti heals. His life steal is his biggest ally so if you slow that down and maybe use runic shield (if you are physical) to nerf his power he is pretty useless and easy to kill.

[Function (Malee7)]

Persephone isn't that bad in my opinion.
Nox however...

Nox is a soft counter to every single other god in the game.
Having an AOE silence is powerful enough, making it deal damage as a bonus to that is insane, let alone the amount of damage it does, Now filtering in that it's an incredibly powerful ability given that it does 90/160/230/300/370 + 100% of her magical power as damage that means it is insanely broken.

In the way it operates it's built as a utility ability - Ranged AOE Silence - and it works like a damaging ability.

I would argue that it's literally the best ability in the game because it's the best of both worlds in every situation with the only down side being that that in order to get an enemy god in it they need to be rooted/stunned or absent minded.

Which isn't an issue because you can still clear minion waves with it, Nox has a root (obviously) and so does almost every other god in this game.

So even if you can't land your root you can take advantage of your allies rooting and stunning enemies.

So essentially for an ability which isn't even her ult Nox can do upwards of 1270 damage with a single attack which silences enemies every 13 seconds (Provided no cooldown) which with 40% cooldown would be 5 seconds between bursts of 1270+ damage.

that's 370 + 900 power (Visual Cap) and 13 seconds reduced by 40% for the calculations.

For example of how powerful this is. Scylla's Crush(2) given the exact same circumstance deals 1230 (320 + 90%) and has a 6 second cooldown (10 seconds + 40%)

So Nox does more damage than scylla, has less cooldown than Scylla and her ability also silences.


(Scylla chosen because Nox and Scylla have basically the same abilities with a damaging line attack root, a AOE explosion, a escape/engage and a high damage ult design to melt enemies.)

However whenever we compare that to a mage who is known for high ability damage such as Anubis.

Nox's AOE Silence has almost the same damage as Anubis' full ult (43 damage every 0.1 seconds for 3 seconds, 1290 full damage + 15% Magical power)

Anubis's ult with 900 magical power doing 1425 damage. Which is a mere 155 damage difference between a god who is known for being high damage, low everything else and Nox who also silences with the same ability.

Now with that concluded the damage a GOOD Nox will do is further increased starting at 640 damage making the effective damage of the ability combo on enemy gods 1930.

Before filtering in the effects of items like Rod of Tahuti, Soul Gem or Soul Reaver.

And that's just from her Root and her AOE which are designed to be used together.

So that is now 1930 damage every 5 seconds which also silences and is a ranged AOE.

Nox mechanically speaking is insanely powerful, versatile and is a soft counter to every god you can theoretically get into her silence whilst being a hard counter to any god that stands still for the duration of any ability. That is before you filter in the damage. And even still that's the damage of two out of four abilities, neither of which is her ult and it's not the damage alone which makes her broken it's how spam-able that damage is and the fact that so long as she's with another god she's essentially safe because of that whole Shadow Step ability.

In other words you could shadowstep into a backing god and be brought back to base / along for the right with a jump/dash

What makes all this worse is that her passive grants her up to 12% additional magical power added on to everything.

As it is Nox because her entire win strategy is to silence and insta kill is literally a god designed to strategically, mathematically and methodically kill the enjoyment of any god she's playing against. She literally hold you in place, silences you and kills you just to make sure you literally, mechanically cannot do anything as you die.

Finally my biggest gripe with Nox is that from what I see of her she's really easily balanced though it would take some effort. It's just that Hi-Rez don't want to put that effort in.

(back on topic)

Comparably speaking Persephone is a walk in the park. I mean what does she do? She has a line attack, a dash, a plant and a large scale AOE Crowd control which is incredibly easy to counter both by getting relics/items and without needing to.

The only annoying thing about her is her minion-plants which can soften you up for her and the fact that she doesn't die until after she dies in most cases.

Like I've seen a lot of Persephones, played a lot of them too and they've been annoying but they've never been the reason they're annoying. it's always been someone else on their team taking advantage of their abilities like a Neith ulting those taken to low health by her sprouts, a vulcun ulting those caught in her ult or a Ymir freezing enemies so that sprouts can gang up on them.

Persephone herself isn't annoying, it's that other gods can stack their annoying factor off of her. She's like a catalyst.

But she's not inherently not fun to play against. She doesn't lock you do and she's doesn't do (What I would consider) high damage outside of meeting certain requirements. If you're aware of what's around you and know how to side step or even just play Geb/Odin/Nemesis/Sylvanus/Tyr/Janus/Neith/any god who has the ability to heal on the field and/or create temporary health then Persephone is really easy and simple to fight.

I seriously don't think I've ever had a game where I thought "this isn't fun because of that Persephone" or even "They're winning because of their Persephone"

The times I've lost bad to a Persephone have been because of the skill of the player, not the abilties of the god. Things like being able to predict and counter incoming attacks ahead of time or side step incoming basic attacks. The ability to be able to reason where a jungler is without wards, the awareness to prevent and avoid ganks, etc.

These are all down to the skill of the player and anytime a Persephone I've seen has done exceedingly well it has generally been because of these.
I'm not saying Persephone is a bad god, far from it but it's because of the way her ability works that other gods often get the credit for her work.

Also I'm fully aware how easy it is to just say "Nox" in response to question like this, I'm hoping that my more detailed run down of the hows and whys as to why she's the most unfun god to play against makes up for and explains why I'm saying it.

[Mossy Snake]

Nox is a complete joke to lock down as long as she misses her grab. She's arguably the most one-dimensional god in the game: she places silence, throws raven, gives you a good suck, then ults or backs off. If any part of that chain is interrupted she's in trouble because she shares the same weakness to pressure that most mages share. Dodge her raven and kit-dump on her and she's usually toast if her ult isn't up.

Doesn't help one relic makes 3/4ths of her kit unusable

[Function (Malee7)]

Originally posted by Mossy Snake:

Nox is a complete joke to lock down as long as she misses her grab. She's arguably the most one-dimensional god in the game: she places silence, throws raven, gives you a good suck, then ults or backs off. If any part of that chain is interrupted she's in trouble because she shares the same weakness to pressure that most mages share. Dodge her raven and kit-dump on her and she's usually toast if her ult isn't up.

Doesn't help one relic makes 3/4ths of her kit unusable

This isn't actually right.

1. She's as difficult to lock down as every other god in the game is, no easier. it requires for you to have a certain combination of items / relics or be a certain god.
She's actually harder to lock down than most gods because she can escape out of almost any situation provided she has a sensible friendly god nearby more easily than 90% of other gods in the game.

2. She's not in trouble if she messes up that combo because you listed a combo which isn't the way she works. She can very easily kill with only two abilities but you've listed three which seems to imply that either you're trying to subvert the claim that she's overpowered by underestimating her abilities or that you simply haven't played against many Nox.
But this entire point falls apart the second you realise she has the best dash in the game.
Yes there are other dashes which do extra things and which can go further if her dash isn't being used right but her dash has the capacity of travelling literally from one side of the map to the other with no other abilities or items needed for her.

3. "She shares the same weakness to pressure as most mages" Honestly? I really don't want to start a fight or anything but it sounds like you don't really play as or against mages.
Most mages don't have issues dealing with pressure unless it's in an extreme due to the ability to take an entire minion wave in a single ability which most mages have. this means they can level with ease and in the extreme without putting themselves into danger.
The only kind of pressure mages have an issue with is if they're caught in lane alone or are too far from their tower which would imply you're playing against inexperienced mages since the first thing anyone learns whenever they play a god is to compensate for the weaknesses of that individual god.
Nox would certainly be more prone to issues regarding pressure due to the nature of how her damage is dealt but she's also one of the best mages for dealing with enemies under tower or with allies nearby so I'd say that more than makes up for her personal weakness.

4. The only reason you could say "Doesn't help one relic makes 3/4ths of her kit unusable" is if you were oversimplifying it. I can't think of a single relic with the versatility to counter her so hard because every relic is focused on a specific thing and as such there is literally no relic which could counter her so hard because if such a relic existed it would be nerfed and removed because nobody would use anything else but this relic which negates damage, rooting, silencing and so on.
Even if one existed Nox specifically would be the best god in the game to counter it because her damage is done via a silence.

And as anyone who has played as or against any god with a silence knows a silence prevents the activation of items including Relics.
So not only is there not a relic which counters 3/4ths of her kit but you cannot use any relics whenever you'd normally need them.

5. Even if none of the above mattered, even if I was wrong on every single point. Your entire comment is missing the point. You're trying to say that Nox isn't powerful because she can be dodged or miss. Well every god can be dodged, every god can miss but that doesn't filter into whether or not they're broken. If it were particularly easy to dodge her or for her to miss you may have a point but it isn't.
Your comment is based on the premise that Nox can be countered, not that Nox is unfun to play against whenever to my knowledge nobody said Nox cannot be countered. So essentially you're responding to a comment which doesn't exist.

Nox is incredibly powered and could even be described as overpowered or broken by the nature of her abilities crossing the threshold between Mage and Guardian. (Damage vs Utility)
with the formula of mages being damage over utility and guardians being utility over damage. Nox is a mage with Utility over Damage but still more damage than most mages.
However she can still be countered but this discussion isn't about whether or not a god is literally invincible or the weakest in the world. It is based on whether or not that particular god is fun to play against or not. Something which you haven't made any argument for or against.

Essentially what my point was is that Nox and her kit is specifically designed to remove the fun out of the game for whoever she targets because it literally prevents them from playing the game.
Or... would you argue that stopping an enemy from moving, using abilities, using items and then killing them before they can even damage you thus causing them to sit with a grayscale screen for anywhere between 10 seconds and 1 minute+ is somehow not preventing them from playing the game?

By the definition of what the original poster said in their obvious frustrations over a game of Smite you're pretty off topic with your entire point, especially given that I put the time and effort into explaining why it's unfun to play against her from a mechanical level.

Even if Nox were completely unkillable it could still be fun to play against her if her abilities were different and even if she died to the first damage dealt by anything ever and nothing could stop it she could still be the most unfun god to play against if her abilities were different.

Whether or not it's possible to defeat her simply put isn't a part of this conversation, neither is how easy it is to do or whether she has counters or what items work best.
This discussion is just how unfun she is.

[cybercena89]

nox, phersephone, Baron, Loki, Achilles

[Geardo]

Persephone, the plant juking I think could be fixed by making damage in a wider arc or even a cricle AoE, right now it is a small arc in front of where the plant goes off, dodge that arc and you are fine.

Nox is more dangerous than people realize, just 2 things prevent that. First a number of Nox players do not know how to hit the 1 right. Second, part of her kit to be used to full effectiveness requires a team on voice comms who work together and at least 1 ally with a global or semi-global Ult.