The Problem with Smite

[AnalBuccaneer]

For starters, i have played off and on since 2012 (it's origin). smite has always been that guilty pleasure of mine... i played thousands of hours in the first 2 or 3 seasons and was ranked quite highly (although i don't/haven't ever consider myself a pro). i often found myself matched with and against many pro players. on no less than 3 occasions, i implemented unique strategies against streamers, only to find them copy the strategy and their viewers then would as well. one of these strategies was hard nerfed several times and finally removed. another one of my strategies was successfully used in the launch tournament (not sure if they got the idea from "me on the ladder" or not).

I don't want to make this post a history lesson on how and when smite started trending in the wrong direction (it was the official launch), but you have to understand that it is the root of the problem: essentially, hirez paid a group of game designers/programmers to make this game... and as soon as the game was launched, the people who actually made the game were long gone. the game was making money though... lots of it. the owner of hirez, who was very hands off up until this point, got excited and started steering this ship to make more of it. they fired what few programmers they had and replaced them with designers (lots of them). they started producing skin after skin... they had to so many designers and so few programmers, they had the designers creating and programming the new gods. he then took all that money and reinvested it in different games. he spent a lot of it on the esports scene, trying to force smite to compete with games like league of legends and starcraft. point is, all those reinvestment ended up being a big waste of money. every decision that the owner of hirez made, ended up being a bad one... i could go on about how much he liked dmbrandon, or his overreaction when smite almost got canceled because it was "gods" fighting. or when he sold out, first to china and then again and again. long story short: the game had huge problems ever since the people who actually made the game handed it over to this rich dude who didn't have a clue.

i know my audience on here is probably a bunch of fan boys who cant take an inch of criticism... and i'm sure most of them haven't made it this far and are probably already writing a heated reply. but now that the history lesson is out of the way, this is what i really wanted to say and The Problem with Smite :

Skill and Strategy. this game requires very little of each. what does that mean? this is a casual game... not competitive. since launch, the game has become easier and less complicated to play. this season, with the release of the new map marks the only time i can think of, where some aspect of the game got more complicated. new gods have bigger aoe, more mobility, more cc, more utility. new items have a great balance of defense, damage and utility. yeah, a lot of the new passives take forever to read, but essentially if you press buttons and buy items, you'll be fine. most new gods are so similar, there's no need for synergy. most of them, despite having really complicated passives, aren't really all that unique when you break it down. and my personal favorite are the new gods that are exactly like the old gods, but better in every way.

how would i fix it?
how to fix the gods - give gods weaknesses. right now, in competitive play (if you can call it that), everyone picks whoever is the most powerful at the time. there's very little need to worry about counters or synergy because there are enough gods who have everything already built into their kit.
how to fix the items - hybrid items should be weaker than specialized items. you shouldn't have enough slots to build everything. there should be a risk/reward for building full damage or full tank. in short: if you build the same items every game, that's boring. or if the end result is the same no matter what you build, that's also boring.
side note on items - league of legends has components that turn into larger items. this is a very unique way to add complexity and strategy to the item system. it's always been my thought that hirez inverted the system just to be different without realizing what made it so special. the end result was a bland and boring item system. the original developers countered this by being ablt to go AD on a MP character, or visa versa. also, you could straight up buy specific stats with hard cash. i don't think those were necessarily good ideas, but they were a necessary complexity to the bland item system.

the problem is, this game has been going down the wrong track for almost a decade. it's too late to fix everything. you would need a complete overhaul of dozens of gods... and a complete item overhaul. i'm honesty only writing this because i'm getting more entertainment out of this, rather than playing the actual game.

casual games are fun, but good mobas are fun because they are competitive. there are much better casual games out there to waste your time on than this.

[PsionicDiamond]

That’s the thing with PvP games.. they’re so addicting but the developers always struggle to find a balance :( it really is a shame… but everyone seems to go for the ‘Meta.’

I’m only 10 hours in, and I just had a match where someone refused to select a character just because someone was playing as… uhhh… a gods name beginning with ‘That’ ? And the person refused because they didn’t want to ‘carry someone for the 8th time’. I felt so bad for the guy.. he got shamed just for playing his fav character. But I digress

[CookshopBeans]

Lol. This post is seemingly full of a bunch of spiteful and untrue garbage. The guy talks like he knows the game, but clearly does not, (it is a skill game, to be certain....) and he clearly has an issue with the company for some reason. Former employee?

Nice blurb here but there are so many points that do not line up with my experience of playing smite. I've been playing since 2016. Enjoy your exciting League of Legends gameplay lol. Tudaloo

[Mason]

Originally posted by BEAR!NM!ND:

Lol. This post is seemingly full of a bunch of spiteful and untrue garbage. The guy talks like he knows the game, but clearly does not, (it is a skill game, to be certain....) and he clearly has an issue with the company for some reason. Former employee?

Nice blurb here but there are so many points that do not line up with my experience of playing smite. I've been playing since 2016. Enjoy your exciting League of Legends gameplay lol. Tudaloo

People think that because they've played since the inception of SMITE they have some knowledge that no one else has.. or that they know what's best for the game just because they've played before most people even heard of the game. I'm quite similar to you, I started playing at the end of season 3, and I only started playing because I had played Paragon before. Paragon was my first moba.

This whole post is just a chore to read and OP is just blabbing and from what I can gather this is just another Hi-Rez = bad post... the likes of which we've seen numerous times on this god awful forum.

[Justice]

I appreciate this post. I've been playing for a while now, I don't visit the forums often, but I found this to be an interesting read

[AnalBuccaneer]

Originally posted by BEAR!NM!ND:

Lol. This post is seemingly full of a bunch of spiteful and untrue garbage. The guy talks like he knows the game, but clearly does not, (it is a skill game, to be certain....) and he clearly has an issue with the company for some reason. Former employee?

Nice blurb here but there are so many points that do not line up with my experience of playing smite. I've been playing since 2016. Enjoy your exciting League of Legends gameplay lol. Tudaloo

care to explain what i have gotten wrong?

skill game? sure... like any game i suppose. but lets play a game called which game takes more skill :
Smite or Starcraft
Smite or League of Legends
Smite or Dota 2
Smite or Counter-strike

now how about a few fun ones:
Smite or Dark Souls
Smite or Fortnite

Originally posted by Zero:

People think that because they've played since the inception of SMITE they have some knowledge that no one else has.. or that they know what's best for the game just because they've played before most people even heard of the game. I'm quite similar to you, I started playing at the end of season 3, and I only started playing because I had played Paragon before. Paragon was my first moba.

This whole post is just a chore to read and OP is just blabbing and from what I can gather this is just another Hi-Rez = bad post... the likes of which we've seen numerous times on this god awful forum.

have confidence. just because somebody knows something that you don't, it is not an attack on your intelligence.

i wont insult your intelligence... but if you can't imagine smite being any better than it currently is, you might just be lacking a bit of creativity. when someone comes on here and says "the game use to be better", why do you reject it? you said yourself you don't have first hand knowledge, so why can't you imagine it? and moreover, why cant you articulate why?

i mean, at least the first guy said i was wrong... he didnt explain why or how but you just go straight to attacking me rather than my arguments. if my position is so reprehensible, it shouldn't be that hard to dubunk me. tell me how revolutionary the item system is. argue with me about how great it is that every god builds the same 5 items every game no matter what. tell me how diverse the hunters are... and the warriors. and you can get extra credit if you tell me how these things are so much better than similar/more successful games.

[CookshopBeans]

(Agreed, @Zero)

Not worth the time to argue with these seemingly "super elite" perspectives.

When someone compares a 3rd person MOBA to an RTS Strategy game like Starcraft, lol, it's an instant loss of argument or credibility. This guy just wants attention. Don't feed him.

I understand you're hurting bud, but this post is silly, enjoy League of Legends if that truly is for you. Bon voyage

[AnalBuccaneer]

Originally posted by BEAR!NM!ND:

(Agreed, @Zero)

Not worth the time to argue with these seemingly "super elite" perspectives.

When someone compares a 3rd person MOBA to an RTS Strategy game like Starcraft, lol, it's an instant loss of argument or credibility. This guy just wants attention. Don't feed him.

I understand you're hurting bud, but this post is silly, enjoy League of Legends if that truly is for you. Bon voyage

continue to attack the person and not the arguments/positions...

by calling me super elite for seeking a discussion, and refusing to engage in said conversation is quite hypocritical.

let me spell it out: you label me as pretentious, and therefore below you. or in other words, you think you are better than me, you think you are correct based on moral superiority... aka you are pretentious.

moreover, you could have read my post and moved about your life, but you insist on replying to my post not to engage with me or the topic at hand, but rather to proclaim your eliteness. you end each post with "peace out" but you come back. even if you don't reply to this thread again, i know you read my reply and i know you want to but by doing so, you would know that i am right. you have to get the last word. it kills you. so no matter how much you want to reply... control yourself.

and since we are getting rather far off topic: smite is bland and boring because every god is more or less the same and every item is more or less the same... and it has slowly been happening over a decade ever since hirez took the reigns. there is nothing unique or special about it. it is not competitive, it is casual.

[Kyotou ✗]

skill issue

[Bluti]

Not sure, somehow I agree in some points... in other you completely miss the whole scope - by ignoring new players with quite less knowledge about the goods, mechanics etc.
Im playing since closed beta, so for me a new god is a snip to learn but for my son for example, who just started its not easy to get in because if you dont know your enemy in combination with some game & map mechanics and items knowledge you end up in a jungle of frustration... believe me I´ve seen it ;)

So please never forget: The game is not made for Pro Gamers only, its made for every type of gamer and that includes new ones and casuals as well who dont want to search tons of websites for informations and videos on how to play just before they can "really" play.

To close this gap my suggestion is to invest more in clan stuff, a mentor system or something like that to bring these different groups faster and better together for an all-in fun experience for everyone.

[ApocalypseMeow]

Im just tired of tanks doing more damage than assassins with full defense builds.

[SonkitA]

Season 4 was the best. The Smite problems began in 5 seasn. Constant freezes and crashes of the game from the middle, and at the end of the season there are problems with the entrance both from one side of the Atlantic and from the other. Many could only enter with a VPN. And then someone threw in a solution to the problem of writing one id into the game file. When I checked it, it turned out to be the address of the server host of the game. What looked like an unofficial fix of their own bug. And the Hirez didn't even think of moving, they didn't even comment on it.
Now there are only incomprehensible item changes, skins, skins, skins, ridiculous collaborations and old bugs. 10 years Smite. Today I played Assault, and the game freezes on the inscription Defeat. Closed.

[GunSlinger]

Originally posted by AnalBuccaneer:

how would i fix it?
how to fix the gods - give gods weaknesses. right now, in competitive play (if you can call it that), everyone picks whoever is the most powerful at the time. there's very little need to worry about counters or synergy because there are enough gods who have everything already built into their kit.
how to fix the items - hybrid items should be weaker than specialized items. you shouldn't have enough slots to build everything. there should be a risk/reward for building full damage or full tank. in short: if you build the same items every game, that's boring. or if the end result is the same no matter what you build, that's also boring.
side note on items - league of legends has components that turn into larger items. this is a very unique way to add complexity and strategy to the item system. it's always been my thought that hirez inverted the system just to be different without realizing what made it so special. the end result was a bland and boring item system. the original developers countered this by being ablt to go AD on a MP character, or visa versa. also, you could straight up buy specific stats with hard cash. i don't think those were necessarily good ideas, but they were a necessary complexity to the bland item system.

Using this list, this problem exists in every moba I've played. Including league and dota2.

Champ metas run the higher echelons of play. Even as a newer player I see plenty of room for higher level synergy. Like running a nox/sol team in duo where the nox roots an enemy in place so sol can get all her ult shots focused on the target. There are others of course but in general all mobas have nuanced synergies among damage dealers but most often come down to the supports ability to synergize with most of them.

Who builds full tank and full damage? Or can even build half of each and still be relevant? I find it hard to get even one damage item into my tank builds and still brick wall damage sometimes. And say a kuku that builds a spectral armor to help him survive in lane against an assassin mid pick is going to be worthless to the team. Not sure I understand what you mean there. But in league, itemization is almost always the same from game to game per champ. Only time you may change something up is to add grievous wounds or maybe serpents fang when someone needs to be countered by them. But in general, Swain always builds Landrys-zhonyas-scepter-demonic. He might build Morello if there's strong healing, but that's about as diverse as it gets. And it's the same for all champs. There's a meta build and people don't stray from it often.

League has the same item buildup generally as smite. Only real difference is like with anti heal or certain other items there is a key item in the progression that gives you part of what you're looking for and that may be enough. Example would be buying executioners calling just to get a bit of anti heal before committing to buying the rest of your core kit. Whereas in smite, if I'm not mistaken, to get any anti heal you have to complete your main item. But that's about the only difference I've seen.

The game needs polish. And as long as it's been out I would like to think it should have more of it. Some of the spell check, grammar and even just proof-read errors I see in descriptions is comical, ontop of all the other stuff. But it's still a fun game and I think they've done a pretty good job of balancing. Needs work, but it could be worse.

[AnalBuccaneer]

Originally posted by Bluti:

Not sure, somehow I agree in some points... in other you completely miss the whole scope - by ignoring new players with quite less knowledge about the goods, mechanics etc.
Im playing since closed beta, so for me a new god is a snip to learn but for my son for example, who just started its not easy to get in because if you dont know your enemy in combination with some game & map mechanics and items knowledge you end up in a jungle of frustration... believe me I´ve seen it ;)

So please never forget: The game is not made for Pro Gamers only, its made for every type of gamer and that includes new ones and casuals as well who dont want to search tons of websites for informations and videos on how to play just before they can "really" play.

To close this gap my suggestion is to invest more in clan stuff, a mentor system or something like that to bring these different groups faster and better together for an all-in fun experience for everyone.

matchmaking. a good matchmaking system and a healthy community would fix that. new players playing with old is not an easy way to learn.

matchmaking has always sucked and i wont play early in the morning or late at night anymore (the times when matchmaking cant find 10 similarly skilled people, even if it knew how).

hirez has tried to fix matchmaking for so long... but they always end up blaming the community. "if only we had more data, more players... then we could do it." seems like they have completely given up. thats actually their excuse for balance too.

their solution seems to be to just make all the gods and all the items the same. that fixes balance and matchmaking. i can't tell you the last time i read a god reveal... i just assume they have mobility, enough damage to kill you with little effort, sustain and either a pocket-immunity/cleanse (in other words, 1 of everything).

[AnalBuccaneer]

Originally posted by GunSlinger:

Using this list, this problem exists in every moba I've played. Including league and dota2.

Champ metas run the higher echelons of play. Even as a newer player I see plenty of room for higher level synergy. Like running a nox/sol team in duo where the nox roots an enemy in place so sol can get all her ult shots focused on the target. There are others of course but in general all mobas have nuanced synergies among damage dealers but most often come down to the supports ability to synergize with most of them.

there is nothing nuanced about it... almost every god has a stun/root/slow/pull/knockup that would pair nicely with almost any other god that has damage. in your example, nox can combo herself by setting herself up to land her high damage. also, sol doesnt need much setup since her attack speed and move speed gets boosted so high simply with her passive. both those gods are great on their own and great with just about any other god. thats my point. as a side note, both those gods have good escapes abilities they can hold onto, without having any less damage. there's no trade off. they are good at everything without risking anything or giving anything up.

Originally posted by GunSlinger:

Who builds full tank and full damage? Or can even build half of each and still be relevant? I find it hard to get even one damage item into my tank builds and still brick wall damage sometimes. And say a kuku that builds a spectral armor to help him survive in lane against an assassin mid pick is going to be worthless to the team. Not sure I understand what you mean there. But in league, itemization is almost always the same from game to game per champ. Only time you may change something up is to add grievous wounds or maybe serpents fang when someone needs to be countered by them. But in general, Swain always builds Landrys-zhonyas-scepter-demonic. He might build Morello if there's strong healing, but that's about as diverse as it gets. And it's the same for all champs. There's a meta build and people don't stray from it often.

most true "full tank" builds cant brick wall anything in the late game. you are so irrelevant because you don't do any damage or pose any threat, you are ignored and saved for last )(plus, a hunter will shred you like paper anyways). luckily, there are plenty of items that give you defense health and damage. you can literally have it all.

there is a max amount of power you can have and most magical carrys max out on it without needing to use all 6 items... which means you can get a utility/defense item no problem. you can literally have it all.

i havent played LoL in a long time... but like you said, in league, individual champions have individual builds. the items compliment their kit. in smite, there is a meta build for all hunters (for example). i dont know if thats because all the hunters are the same or if all the items are the same... but either way it's boring.

for the less sweaty, non-tryhards... theres a long list of items you can build on a hunter that would still keep you effective. so long as you build damage and attack speed, you will generally hit the same no matter what you build. i think this is because hunters max out on attack speed and can still have all power items... you can literally have it all. you dont even need to sacrifice anything to get lifesteal or armor pen or both.

Originally posted by GunSlinger:

The game needs polish. And as long as it's been out I would like to think it should have more of it. Some of the spell check, grammar and even just proof-read errors I see in descriptions is comical, ontop of all the other stuff. But it's still a fun game and I think they've done a pretty good job of balancing. Needs work, but it could be worse.

this game has been polished it's whole existence. all they do is polish. every couple months they change the UI becasue they have too many designers on the payroll with nothing to do. i turned on the stream the other day to watch a "pro" game... they use to have the kills, towers and gold right next to each other so you can easily see who is winning... now its on separate sides of the screen. why move it? was what they had originally, broken? no... bob just didnt have anything to do so we gave him busy work to redesign the spectator UI. also, it would hurt his feelings if we didnt use it... he worked so hard on it.

[GunSlinger]

Originally posted by AnalBuccaneer:

Originally posted by GunSlinger:

Using this list, this problem exists in every moba I've played. Including league and dota2.

Champ metas run the higher echelons of play. Even as a newer player I see plenty of room for higher level synergy. Like running a nox/sol team in duo where the nox roots an enemy in place so sol can get all her ult shots focused on the target. There are others of course but in general all mobas have nuanced synergies among damage dealers but most often come down to the supports ability to synergize with most of them.

there is nothing nuanced about it... almost every god has a stun/root/slow/pull/knockup that would pair nicely with almost any other god that has damage. in your example, nox can combo herself by setting herself up to land her high damage. also, sol doesnt need much setup since her attack speed and move speed gets boosted so high simply with her passive. both those gods are great on their own and great with just about any other god. thats my point. as a side note, both those gods have good escapes abilities they can hold onto, without having any less damage. there's no trade off. they are good at everything without risking anything or giving anything up.

Originally posted by GunSlinger:

Who builds full tank and full damage? Or can even build half of each and still be relevant? I find it hard to get even one damage item into my tank builds and still brick wall damage sometimes. And say a kuku that builds a spectral armor to help him survive in lane against an assassin mid pick is going to be worthless to the team. Not sure I understand what you mean there. But in league, itemization is almost always the same from game to game per champ. Only time you may change something up is to add grievous wounds or maybe serpents fang when someone needs to be countered by them. But in general, Swain always builds Landrys-zhonyas-scepter-demonic. He might build Morello if there's strong healing, but that's about as diverse as it gets. And it's the same for all champs. There's a meta build and people don't stray from it often.

most true "full tank" builds cant brick wall anything in the late game. you are so irrelevant because you don't do any damage or pose any threat, you are ignored and saved for last )(plus, a hunter will shred you like paper anyways). luckily, there are plenty of items that give you defense health and damage. you can literally have it all.

there is a max amount of power you can have and most magical carrys max out on it without needing to use all 6 items... which means you can get a utility/defense item no problem. you can literally have it all.

i havent played LoL in a long time... but like you said, in league, individual champions have individual builds. the items compliment their kit. in smite, there is a meta build for all hunters (for example). i dont know if thats because all the hunters are the same or if all the items are the same... but either way it's boring.

for the less sweaty, non-tryhards... theres a long list of items you can build on a hunter that would still keep you effective. so long as you build damage and attack speed, you will generally hit the same no matter what you build. i think this is because hunters max out on attack speed and can still have all power items... you can literally have it all. you dont even need to sacrifice anything to get lifesteal or armor pen or both.

Originally posted by GunSlinger:

The game needs polish. And as long as it's been out I would like to think it should have more of it. Some of the spell check, grammar and even just proof-read errors I see in descriptions is comical, ontop of all the other stuff. But it's still a fun game and I think they've done a pretty good job of balancing. Needs work, but it could be worse.

this game has been polished it's whole existence. all they do is polish. every couple months they change the UI becasue they have too many designers on the payroll with nothing to do. i turned on the stream the other day to watch a "pro" game... they use to have the kills, towers and gold right next to each other so you can easily see who is winning... now its on separate sides of the screen. why move it? was what they had originally, broken? no... bob just didnt have anything to do so we gave him busy work to redesign the spectator UI. also, it would hurt his feelings if we didnt use it... he worked so hard on it.

Going to try to be brief.

Cc is big in all mobas. Hard cc like stuns, roots and knockups are.. I wouldn't say "rare" but not quite common in smite either. Lots of champs either have none or don't have any hard cc or what they do have is fairly useless. Like tyr having a knock up and push away that's like, yea it's good that he has it but it's not fight changing like a chaac ult or a Fafnir stun.

I think the game keeps itemization simple. League item pools are pretty static across the board. With the exception of a few mages, most either invest into either Landry's (dot) or ludens (burst). If they made items for every character it wouldn't change anything. That champ would just always run that same meta build lol I think simplicity is key with itemization. There shouldn't be hundreds of items to pick from. At some point it just gets convoluted and the only people enjoying the maze of the buy shop are the spreadsheet nerds. You already have plenty of choice picking a selection of damage, pen, life steal, crit and attack speed knowing you can't build all of them and be as focused on one enough to be strong with it.

And finally, this game is nowhere near polished lol even league can't, in my mind, bear the achievement of being called "polished". And league is centuries ahead of smite in graphics, UI, animations, special effects, pretty much everything. I mean ♥♥♥♥ you can't even move the health bar over your head so it's not blocking your ground target cursor. Walking animations are goofy AF. For some reason the gods themselves, while not amazing looking, look half decent while at Max graphics 1440p the terrain and general map environment looks like something from a ps2 game. Animations aren't awe inspiring at all and at Max graphics I think they should be. Dota2 looks better. And dota2 doesn't look all that amazing. So whatever effort they have put in, it's been wasted. And from what you're describing, it's sad to hear that's what they're focusing on. But give it time. League isn't that old really. And if you look at what it was at launch, it looked like absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 🤣