Need help playing "Hel"

[Stefan]

So, i'm starting to like hel, but there is one problem.

I keep switching between stances, and not getting the bonuses.
Let's say my teammates are in mid, and i am in light stance, i come there heal them, give some CC immunity, then change to dark stance (?) and try to get a kill, but, my teammate starts to get attacked, and goes to half hp, so i switch back to light stance and heal everyone, but then i start to get attacked and switch back to dark stance, and then back to light stance to heal everyone.

tl:dr i keep switching between stances and end up healing instead of getting kills

[Chad Thundercock]

Originally posted by Edwad:

So, i'm starting to like hel, but there is one problem.

I keep switching between stances, and not getting the bonuses.
Let's say my teammates are in mid, and i am in light stance, i come there heal them, give some CC immunity, then change to dark stance (?) and try to get a kill, but, my teammate starts to get attacked, and goes to half hp, so i switch back to light stance and heal everyone, but then i start to get attacked and switch back to dark stance, and then back to light stance to heal everyone.

tl:dr i keep switching between stances and end up healing instead of getting kills

Well tbh I dont build hel for healing, late game she will heal for like 400. btw you should double stack ^^

[Stefan]

Umm, sorry, i am not that familiar with smite terms, what does double stack mean?

Originally posted by BnC.Solar:

Originally posted by Edwad:

tl:dr i keep switching between stances and end up healing instead of getting kills

Well tbh I dont build hel for healing, late game she will heal for like 400. btw you should double stack ^^

[Chad Thundercock]

Originally posted by Edwad:

Umm, sorry, i am not that familiar with smite terms, what does double stack mean?

Originally posted by BnC.Solar:

Well tbh I dont build hel for healing, late game she will heal for like 400. btw you should double stack ^^

build warlock sash and book of thoth | My bad how ever the hell you spell those, I got a good build for her if you want it.

[Stefan]

Originally posted by BnC.Solar:

Originally posted by Edwad:

Umm, sorry, i am not that familiar with smite terms, what does double stack mean?

build warlock sash and book of thoth | My bad how ever the hell you spell those, I got a good build for her if you want it.

oh, so double stack means, 2 stacking items with similar bonuses?

my build is:
Shoes of focus, breastplate of valor, rod of asclepius, book of toth, rod of tahuti, warlock's sash.

and late game i replace shoes of focus with something more usefull

[Chad Thundercock]

Originally posted by Edwad:

Originally posted by BnC.Solar:

build warlock sash and book of thoth | My bad how ever the hell you spell those, I got a good build for her if you want it.

oh, so double stack means, 2 stacking items with similar bonuses?

my build is:
Shoes of focus, breastplate of valor, rod of asclepius, book of toth, rod of tahuti, warlock's sash.

and late game i replace shoes of focus with something more usefull

Warlock Sash, Book of thoth, Shoes Of Focus, Chronos Pendant, Rod Of Tahuti, Spear Of Desolation

Build it in that order and your set.

[ata_ozcan]

Originally posted by Edwad:

Originally posted by BnC.Solar:

build warlock sash and book of thoth | My bad how ever the hell you spell those, I got a good build for her if you want it.

oh, so double stack means, 2 stacking items with similar bonuses?

my build is:
Shoes of focus, breastplate of valor, rod of asclepius, book of toth, rod of tahuti, warlock's sash.

and late game i replace shoes of focus with something more usefull

don't sell your boots on a god with 0 escapes man

[Chad Thundercock]

Originally posted by ata_ozcan:

Originally posted by Edwad:

oh, so double stack means, 2 stacking items with similar bonuses?

my build is:
Shoes of focus, breastplate of valor, rod of asclepius, book of toth, rod of tahuti, warlock's sash.

and late game i replace shoes of focus with something more usefull

don't sell your boots on a god with 0 escapes man

Yeah, dont sell your boots in general. with any god lol

[Sir Cookiemon]

Originally posted by Edwad:

So, i'm starting to like hel, but there is one problem.

tl:dr i keep switching between stances and end up healing instead of getting kills

You actually have two problems here - the second is stance dancing so let's start with that. You can fully keep one of the boni maxed out if you switch-a-roo fast enough as they don't immediately start to decay so you can get of the 2 and either the 1 or 3 without it costing you to much of your maximum passive bonus. How to solve - hit them buttons as fast as animationlock-possible.

Now to the first problem you actually have:
Hel
Don't get me wrong - I live stance dancing and Hel is one of the mages I'd immediately play - IF SHE WAS VIABLE. She isn't. The entire itemization meta as well as her skillset work against her. Let's take a closer look at that

> her waveclear is a PBAoE that needs you to dive the wave
> which wouldn't be a problem if she had Chang'es 2 but she doesn't
> she has standart protections unlike other frontline-ish mages (Ao Kuang, Zhong Kui and Freya (why does she get a physical gods protection scaling?))
> her skillset executes kind of slowly as in the animation takes forever

> you can easily shut down her sustain:
> > curse for free on level 1, sprint doesn't have the heavenly agility bonus of +heal of S2
> > she's unlikely to get away once cursed (no movement skill, only her clease)
> > Pestilence - lowers her sustain and the damage she will inflict on the wearer - one item to COMPLETELY negate Hel's entire skillset
> > Brawlers Beatstick and to a lesser intend Divine Ruin, just to add insult to litteral injury




The last few points also affect other healers obviously but half of them don't even bother:

Aphrodite - can stay further away to heal/damage potentially avoiding pestillence aura/hits carrying Brawlers/Ruin effects (allthough your heal target wil stilll be affected)

Chang'e - crappy heal to begin with but at least it has an inbuilt healing reduction on enemies, better damage projection, movement skill and a teamfight ult

Cupid - if you pick Cupid for his heal you're doing something wrong ... probably

Guan Yu - Heal doesn't scale of power and his shred/ult are incredibly useful besides

Ra - can just stay the hell away to sustain the team, since he's a static healer so noone expects in-fight-healing and you are unlikely to be in the thick of it most of the time when used for sustain

Sylvanus - is a frontliner (so tank>>gank) and the best thing about his heal is the bonus protections

[Stefan]

Originally posted by Sir Cookiemon:

Originally posted by Edwad:

So, i'm starting to like hel, but there is one problem.

tl:dr i keep switching between stances and end up healing instead of getting kills

You actually have two problems here - the second is stance dancing so let's start with that. You can fully keep one of the boni maxed out if you switch-a-roo fast enough as they don't immediately start to decay so you can get of the 2 and either the 1 or 3 without it costing you to much of your maximum passive bonus. How to solve - hit them buttons as fast as animationlock-possible.

Now to the first problem you actually have:
Hel
Don't get me wrong - I live stance dancing and Hel is one of the mages I'd immediately play - IF SHE WAS VIABLE. She isn't. The entire itemization meta as well as her skillset work against her. Let's take a closer look at that
> her waveclear is a PBAoE that needs you to dive the wave
> which wouldn't be a problem if she had Chang'es 2 but she doesn't
> she has standart protections unlike other frontline-ish mages (Ao Kuang, Zhong Kui and Freya (why does she get a physical gods protection scaling?))
> her skillset executes kind of slowly as in the animation takes forever to execute
> you can easily shut down her sustain:
> > curse for free on level 1, sprint doesn't have the heavenly agility bonus of +heal of S2
> > she's unlikely to get away once cursed (no movement skill, only her clease
> > Pestilence - lowers her sustain and the damage she will inflict on the wearer - one item to COMPLETELY negate Hel's entire skillset
> > Brawlers Beatstick and to a lesser intend Divine Ruin, just to add insult to litteral injury


The last few points also affect other healers obviously but half of them don't even bother:
Guan Yu - Heal doesn't scale of power and his shred/ult are incredibly useful besides
Aphrodite - can stay further away to heal/damage potentially avoiding pestillence aura/hits carrying Brawlers/Ruin effects (allthough your heal target wil stilll be affected)
Sylvanus - is a frontliner (so tank>>gank) and the best thing about his heal is the bonus protections
Cupid - if you pick Cupid for his heal you're doing something wrong ... probably
Chang'e - crappy heal to begin with but at least it has an inbuilt healing reduction on enemies, better damage projection, movement skill and a teamfight ult

I was about to make the mistake and buy her, then i realised she isnt my kind of playstile, so i bought Jing wei.

Now i can fly a wei from spawn and get in the wei of my enemies.

Anyway, i still want a good support mage, kind of like ra on assault, heals everyone, doesnt die easily.

Any suggestyion? i would try every god on training, but training doesnt really simulate a battle

[Sir Cookiemon]

Mages are currently kind of bad-ish in the support role, especially in the definition of support for conquest. The closest is probably Aphrodite with her stun/heal/invulnerability all helping to keep your ADC alive. While you could build her tanky her skills aren't hugely useful on the frontline - the 1 is single target, the 2s displacement spreads enemies out (which would be good if the distance was greater but the way it is you'd at most help them to get out of an AoE aimed at their entire team) and while it can be used to knock someone into your team it requires really good positioning and again the distance isn't great. The heal can be used to shred protections with Magus Spear but current conquest teams see about two magic damage gods on average (one of which would be you). The ult is a short-duration, two people aegis which is nice to save someone but since you'd be linked to your other frontliner for your heal you would have to 1 your squishy and then ult to get the most out of it.

Compare to Sylvanus' "Wrath of Terra" - a huge af AoE knockup (and forced displacement is the strongest CC in Smite) with damage AND a DoT effect... yeah.

The thing is that with the current meta of ~2 frontliner (solo laner + 1), the massive burst of mages, the crappiness of defensive items and the overabundance of antiheal (all three relative compared to season 2) just works against mage supports. Which is probably because Hel and Aphro could be really dominating and unstoppable abck then in solo ... especially Hel.




Random thought: you could try ZK I guess - he is built tanky anyway and his support is massive damage, slow and a PBAoE stun.

[Stefan]

Originally posted by Sir Cookiemon:

Mages are currently kind of bad-ish in the support role, especially in the definition of support for conquest. The closest is probably Aphrodite with her stun/heal/invulnerability all helping to keep your ADC alive. While you could build her tanky her skills aren't hugely useful on the frontline - the 1 is single target, the 2s displacement spreads enemies out (which would be good if the distance was greater but the way it is you'd at most help them to get out of an AoE aimed at their entire team) and while it can be used to knock someone into your team it requires really good positioning and again the distance isn't great. The heal can be used to shred protections with Magus Spear but current conquest teams see about two magic damage gods on average (one of which would be you). The ult is a short-duration, two people aegis which is nice to save someone but since you'd be linked to your other frontliner for your heal you would have to 1 your squishy and then ult to get the most out of it.

Compare to Sylvanus' "Wrath of Terra" - a huge af AoE knockup (and forced displacement is the strongest CC in Smite) with damage AND a DoT effect... yeah.

The thing is that with the current meta of ~2 frontliner (solo laner + 1), the massive burst of mages, the crappiness of defensive items and the overabundance of antiheal (all three relative compared to season 2) just works against mage supports. Which is probably because Hel and Aphro could be really dominating and unstoppable abck then in solo ... especially Hel.




Random thought: you could try ZK I guess - he is built tanky anyway and his support is massive damage, slow and a PBAoE stun.

Aphrodite REALLY doesn't seem like my kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, having to follow someone non stop and my ult being a short aegis kind of thing? no thanks