Hunters' builds: crit vs. lifesteal

[GenioGege]

Been playing LoL for 2 years until last december, and i'm a great mmorpg fan, so i got into the game and its mechanics pretty fast. I'm actually pretty low level and i'm playing mostly ADCs.
Now, since i'm new and i found out the recommended items suck asf i looked for the builds on the internet and noticed there are mostly 2 types of build and kinda 2 different opinions in general on how to use ADCs: a few people prefer a build centered on early attack speed with a lifesteal core (asi>executioner>bloodforge), other people get ichaival and then go full crit/pen. Both use trascendance on most adcs, and that's one item.
Now, playing Apollo i feel crit is pretty good on him, while on Izanami and Skadi attack speed feels lot better from what i tried. Other adcs i played, like Jing Wei and Artemis, i'm quiet not sure yet which build is better! So actually, is there a sort of "list" of the ones with better scaling on crit (or AS) or is it personal opinion? Is there an always-better dps between the 2 builds/a mixed build?

[Professor Genki]

Hunters ,I have seen, do better with crit and life steal along with attack speed and power (the usual)

[milkweed]

Do not build a lot of lifesteal. It's bad for your dps and good players will always counter it by buying beatstick or divine.

[EvilDude95]

usually you go almost full pen or do something like , trans, boot damage, and other pen item with 1 asi/bloodforge

[EmethSAS]

Hunter builds are in a transitional state right now, so you're probably seeing some disagreement there based on different people's opinions. Not to mention you might also be seeing builds for different game modes/skill levels or changes in the meta... The Hunter meta has really shifted all over the place this Season, so if the guide or video you're looking at is over a month old, it might be outdated. Meanwhile if it's over 9 months old it might be back in line with where we are now... except for newer items... So it's a little complicated, but usually it doesn't come down to a straight crit vs. lifesteal; most builds have a little of both.

There also are indeed a few variations in types of Hunters: basic attack focused, ability focused, "regular", and "other" (we'll get to that later). You'll see slight variations on the ADC/Hunter build depending on the category of Hunter within a game mode, and other variations depending on the game mode itself.

Basic attack focused Hunters include gods like Apollo, Jing Wei, and Artemis
Ability focused Hunters include gods like Neith and Chiron
"Other" Hunters have unique mechanics that require special consideration and have some unique build options and include gods like Skadi and Izanami
"Regular" Hunters are just about every other Hunter not listed above, though some lean more towards one of the categories than others, but most notably Hou Yi can go into either a more basic attack focused build OR a more ability focused build and do fine either way with slight adjustments to playstyle.

In general, the "baseline" core ADC build I work off of is Death's Toll starter (sustain from basics), Warrior Tabi (early cheap power and move speed), Ichaival (cheap attack speed and penetration), Asi (cheap lifesteal, attack speed, and penetration), and Qin's Sais (expensive, but gives %hp damage each basic). You'll notice that's still missing two items once you sell off the Death's Toll starter item, because the other two items are going to be situational. Though actually it can just about be considered 3 additional items in a Hunter build since if you make it late enough in a game, a lot of Hunters will sell off their Ichaival and replace it with another more expensive item with better late game stats.

This Core of items will work well on just about any Hunter in any game mode (though you may choose to skip the starter item in non-Conquest game modes without much issue). Some Hunter builds don't get some of these items, and that's fine, because they've replaced one of them with something else for a specific reason, but when in doubt, these are the items you can count on to give you almost everything a Hunter needs.

Now, the first major thing this Core build doesn't have is a stacking item, so we'll talk about those two: Transcendence and Devourer's Gauntlets. Transcendence is by far the more popular stacking item, since it's the biggest source of Physical Power in an item a Hunter can get their hands on, giving %power based off of total mana and with its stacks providing extra mana. Transcendence is an obvious choice for ability focused Hunters because it provides power for the scaling of their abilities and mana for using those abilities, but it also works well on just about any Hunter simply because more power also translates into more damage in general. Devourer's Gauntlets provide flat stacking power and the most constant lifesteal out of a single item, but are currently unpopular due to lifesteal being easier to counter with all the anti-healing options and it not providing as much power as other options, but you will sometimes still see it in Conquest or Joust.

The reason I don't include Transcendence in the Core build is because stacking items in general aren't especially needed in the current meta. You'll see lots of ADCs even in the SPL straight up skipping any stacking item in favor of going straight to items with more useful passives, and in other game modes, particularly where there's a greater ratio of gods to minions and so less chance of being able to stack in the first place, it's even less efficient to get a stacking item.

So what about those last two item slots then?
If you're going for a crit build, you usually want to have at least two crit items to make sure you have at least a 40% crit chance to make the most of getting those crits. The most popular crit item is Deathbringer for the straight extra 40% damage on top of the 100% extra damage a crit gives in the first place, then Wind Demon for the bonus attack and move speed it gives on crits and Malice is the other major option that provides lots of damage in the form of a DoT effect after the initial crit. Wind Demon is usually favored on basic attack focused Hunters simply because the more basics you get, the more damage you do, while Malice is favored by Hunters closer to the ability focused end where the DoT can continue applying damage while you interrupt your basics to use your abilities.

The other two crit items are Rage and Poisoned Star and they are less favorable because both have weaker stats (less Phys. Power, less useful passives for Hunters) than the other crit items and are therefore less efficient. They are better utilized by gods that have some other form of crit chance inherent to their kit (like Ne Zha, Artemis, or Jing Wei) and can't afford a second crit item or need a cheap option to get more crit chance. But in general, I would avoid them right now until you understand better how to build with Hunters.

The other items Hunters would be looking at are:
Titan's Bane for flat Penetration, which is so good on Hunters that it should practically be considered part of the Core build. One reason I left it off because if the enemy team isn't very tanky then the pen from Ichaival and Asi MIGHT be enough, but the penetration really helps you tear through objectives quickly, so in most cases one of these last item slots should be reserved for Titan's Bane. But the biggest reason I left it off the Core is becuase of the next item...
Executioner is the other main Penetration item a Hunter would get, since it provides protection shred on basic hits and extra attack speed that Titan's doesn't, but it is only really favorable on basic attack focused Hunters right now, though in past metas it has been favored over Titan's Bane, so it might come back.
Bloodforge you mentioned, and is another lifesteal option, but it is expensive (and therefore inefficient until late-game) and its passive doesn't work quite as well on Hunters except maybe in game modes like Arena or Assault. However, with certain ability focused or "other" Hunters where straight Power is more effective, it can still be a decent item, but far more situational on Hunters than a lot of people seem to think, since it was designed more with Assassins in mind.
Soul Eater would be the last lifesteal option for a Hunter, but its stats are in an odd place right now that make it the least desirable: Bloodforge and Devourer's Gauntlets are usually preferable over Soul Eater right now, and I still think Asi gives the best stats for a Hunter of any of the lifesteal options.
Odysseus' Bow is an option some Hunters go to in the very late game as an upgrade replacement for their Ichaival for the attack speed and the branching damage from the passive is a nice boost to their overall DPS.
Ninja Tabi is technically more efficient than Warrior Tabi on a Hunter who is using their basic attacks for most of their damage, but early game a Hunter is usually in greater need of the raw power Warrior Tabi provides and Ichaival is also cheap for providing attack speed. However, late game when you sell your Ichaival for something else, like a third crit item, also replacing Warrior Tabi with Ninja Tabi can help you maintain your attack speed a little more.

Very situational items would be:
Witchblade provides attack speed and physical protections along with a debuff aura that is a fairly decent defensive option that should still allow you to box another Hunter on a relatively even level while providing more protection against pesky Assassins ganking you.
Shifter's Shield is another defensive option you'll see some Hunters go with, particularly those who lean towards ability focused, because it provides lots of power with the physical protections you get.
Frostbound Hammer provides health and slows an opponent's move and attack speed when hit by your basics, so it used to be a more common defensive Hunter option, but is less popular now with the buffs the above two items got.
Brawler's Beatstick provides power and penetration as well as letting you counter enemy healing and lifesteal. Good if the opposite Hunter goes heavy into lifesteal or if there is a dedicated Healer god causing problems on the enemy team, particularly if your Hunter is more ability focused.
Jotunn's Wrath is useful for the power, pen, and CDR in certain circumstances on ability focused gods, since we were just talking about them.

So putting this all together some good Hunter builds would be:
Standard Crit Build
Death's Toll > Warrior Tabi > Ichaival > Asi > Titan's Bane > Qin's Sais > sell Death's Toll for Deathbringer > sell Ichaival for Malice (> sell Warrior Tabi for Ninja Tabi)
Standard Stacking Build
(Death's Toll sometimes >) Transcendence > Warrior Tabi > Ichaival > Asi > Titan's Bane > sell Death's Toll for Qin's Sais > sell Ichaival for Deathbringer/Odysseus' Bow (> sell Warrior Tabi for Ninja Tabi)
Heavy Crit Build for Basic Attack Focused Hunter
Death's Toll > Warrior Tabi > Ichaival > Asi > Executioner OR Qin's Sais > Wind Demon > sell Death's Toll for Deathbringer > sell Ichaival for Malice (> sell Warrior Tabi for Ninja Tabi)
Heavy Power Build for Ability Focused Hunter
(Death's Toll sometimes >) Transcendence > Warrior Tabi > Ichaival > Asi > Titan's Bane > sell Death's Toll for Qin's Sais > sell Ichaival/Asi for Brawler's Beatstick/Bloodforge

[ata_ozcan]

full lifesteal is pretty funny if they don't get anti heal , u almost can't die in 1v1s or 1v2s

[BlackTit]

http://www.smitejunkies.com/ use this site for builds :) builds done by pro players :)

[GenioGege]

Take for example this site: checking the adc guides none of them has crit on the core build...

[BloodravenD]

Crit took a bit of a nerf in season 3, the current season, but it's still plenty viable. It just means you have to pick up 3 crit items, usually deathbringer rage and malic, to get the most out of crits.

Lifesteal also took a huge hit, you used to be able to heal a lot more than you can, but it's sort of viable. Asi, I find, isn't worth picking up for the price, it's not enough for the cost. If you are going to get lifesteal, bloodforge should be enough.

I tend to get trans, warrior tabi, executioner or qin's depending on how tanky the enemy gods are, then I start building crit, then finish off with titan bane.

[EmethSAS]

GenioGege の投稿を引用：

Take for example this site: checking the adc guides none of them has crit on the core build...

If you mean smitejunkies, then yeah, since it's done by the SPL players from team Allegiance, most SPL ADCs go for consistent predictable damage and crit is good when you're getting them, but to have consistent cries you need at least two crit items and that's just usually too expensive... Most SPL games don't last long enough right now for them to get that much gold.

But if you're playing Ranked and your team is ahead, but your team hasn't pushed down enough objectives yet (as is not unusual), then get crit if you can afford it.