SMITE
lol
lol
Last edited by Toxic Coffee; Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:01am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 54 comments
anaphylactic god Nov 3, 2016 @ 9:06am 
what moba game dont have crits ?
Silly Cat Nov 3, 2016 @ 9:07am 
you cant be serious? if there is enough attack speed and crit chance its not luck anymore it can reliable boost the average dps.

but there is no point in building a single crit item on a god who hits like once a second
Leg Muscles Nov 3, 2016 @ 9:28am 
Originally posted by anaphylactic god:
what moba game dont have crits ?
This is irrelevant. Before smite their was no third person moba, would you argue smite should be switch to the sky view in league because all mobas were like that? No.
anaphylactic god Nov 3, 2016 @ 9:50am 
Originally posted by Leg Muscles:
Originally posted by anaphylactic god:
what moba game dont have crits ?
This is irrelevant. Before smite their was no third person moba, would you argue smite should be switch to the sky view in league because all mobas were like that? No.
so your point is : there should be no crits in game becouse it have over-the-shoulder view and all other mobas have sky view ?
i hardly notice any logic here
RecalledDread Nov 3, 2016 @ 10:10am 
Originally posted by (P) Pepeaventuras:
Originally posted by anaphylactic god:
so your point is : there should be no crits in game becouse it have over-the-shoulder view and all other mobas have sky view ?
i hardly notice any logic here
crits are op and unfair, you cant counter them, even if you build nemean because they will still hit you for 600. Its hard to dodge and luck based, so you cant skill-counter them.

Imperial Helm gives a defence against crits (I think it negates them in some way). More direct counters would be nice, as long as they aren';t too widespread.

The other ways of indirectly countering them is Nemean Lion (which you mentioned), and Attack speed debuffs - Midgardian Mail, Witchblade (?) and Frostbound are the ones I can think of right now. Lowering their attack speed stops them critting as often.
EmethSAS Nov 3, 2016 @ 10:18am 
Originally posted by (P) Pepeaventuras:
Originally posted by anaphylactic god:
so your point is : there should be no crits in game becouse it have over-the-shoulder view and all other mobas have sky view ?
i hardly notice any logic here
crits are op and unfair, you cant counter them, even if you build nemean because they will still hit you for 600. Its hard to dodge and luck based, so you cant skill-counter them.
Ok, several things here, especially since you bring up the "luck based" crits argument.

In TF2, crits are complete RNG, you have no idea when they're coming or who is going to get them and crits almost always kill. Unlike TF2, crits in Smite and other MOBAs are still a known quantity, you can see the person's build and their abilities and know their potential for crits. Also, they double damage on basic attacks (not triple like TF2), which allows basic attack gods access to large damage output they wouldn't otherwise have without making their high damage totally constant. Basic attacks always require at least a few hits to fully wipe an enemy's health, so the TTK is still relatively high even with Crits compared to burst abilities.

The problem with random crits in TF2 is they have no counter-play and they completely throw off play strategy, but even then, no one is asking to get rid of crits altogether with kritzkrieg or headshots or anything like that. Crits in Smite are like headshots or Kritzkrieg, they come from specific items or abilities so they are an anticipated quantity in the game that you can still prepare for. Totally different games and totally different scenarios, but it still boils down to being able to anticipate it and counter it, which Smite allows for. So it totally works and is a viable and legitimate mechanic. Unlike random Crits in TF2, which are RNG all the way and are thus impossible to anticipate and counter, which is the part that actually makes it broken there.

As far as why crits are allowed and good for a strategic game: they are expensive items to purchase and therefore relient on farm and a late-game item, meaning you have plenty of time to prepare and work on countering them showing up in the first place... If you buy them too early, they are actually quite inefficient and can HURT your build because you just dropped a ton of money for an item that only gives you a chance at increased damage. The reason why they have a chance at happening in the first place is actually to limit their power, plus for the most part they only apply on basic attacks and therefore allow ADCs to keep their DPS up to prevent stalemates from big defense items and sustain just keeping everyone alive for a long time.

Now as far as counters, if you're building crit, you're buying items that are PURE offense; there's no defense, no lifesteal, and very little utility attached to these items, and they're only really effective if you've already built other power items into your kit/build to actually make them worthwhile. So a crit build is a glass cannon, so you counter it with enough defense to get in, apply your CC and burst so that the glass cannon is dead before it can do much damage to you. AND that's if you didn't shut them down earlier to prevent them from getting to that point in the first place.

So, all that said, crits exist in a game like this to make sure that games actually end by the time you get to the late game, since crit items are expensive and they mean players actually die and objectives actually go down and one team actually wins rather than everyone getting bored and quitting. Your team can also build crits as well and crits haven't actually always been meta either for precisely the reason that earlier this season games weren't lasting long enough and/or crits were just too expensive to justify purchasing when there were other options that worked better. Furthermore, currently Magical ADCs are performing better than a lot of Hunter ADCs, and Mages can't even build crit, so even in the present meta crit is not OP.

Given all these reasons, the argument "crits are OP" and "crits are luck based" just don't stand up: they haven't always been the best options and probably won't always be either and crits in MOBAs are actually luck based to limit them more than to unfairly benefit the user.
Last edited by EmethSAS; Nov 3, 2016 @ 10:23am
RecalledDread Nov 3, 2016 @ 10:21am 
Originally posted by (P) Pepeaventuras:
its not that easy, if i get that build to counter crits, that means the magical damage gods will ♥♥♥♥ me up easily, even if a build a totally tank build, the crit guy will rekt the other members of the team, and i cant do ♥♥♥♥ about it because i dont have any damage because i get a build to counter him.
The fastest way to solve this is remove crits and make a new kit for god that needs crits like hun batz, serqet etc

Not really the fastest way at all. That means they have to change multiple gods, as in remove them until they change them. Which could potentially mean a complete redesign for some of them depending on what they think of it.

You wouldn't be getting all of those items, they would ideally be shared across the team - maybe the ADC get's frostbound (not likely) or the Assassin does. The Warriors/Guardians get the defence items (again split between them).

I don't really see a problem with crits in this game, and haven't come across many people who do. Never had issues with them even when not counter building for it. I am aware that some do have trouble with crits, but I would guess that lots don't either.
anaphylactic god Nov 3, 2016 @ 10:25am 
Originally posted by (P) Pepeaventuras:
Originally posted by anaphylactic god:
so your point is : there should be no crits in game becouse it have over-the-shoulder view and all other mobas have sky view ?
i hardly notice any logic here
crits are op and unfair, you cant counter them, even if you build nemean because they will still hit you for 600. Its hard to dodge and luck based, so you cant skill-counter them.
personaly i dont think it is a right time to SKILL-COUNTER enemy after he feed up enough to buy deathbringer. plus you can always use fear stun or disarm to counter enemy hunters
at least crits dont affect skills like the have in dota2

this game already had so many things removed and simplified, a little bit more and this game will feel like it was ported from android, not actual PC game
RecalledDread Nov 3, 2016 @ 10:43am 
Originally posted by (P) Pepeaventuras:
Alright, you are just sayint that you have time to counter crits by building anti crits items...
As Tyr says if you press VEL: No, just no.
If you focus on anti crit items you will loose a lot of potentials, if you are a tank there is no problem because you will get nemean and breastplate of valor and crit god wont be a problem for you, but when you are a warrior you will get witchblade, nemean, breastplate of valor and the helmet that gives you crit protections, that means you loose 4 of 6 items for your build, 5 if you include the boots, so you can just literally get 1 item of your choice to hurt the enemy team.
Alright you have your full anti crit build and the crit god appears, he hits you but you are prepared for him, you can rekt them in a 1v1. But, what happens when a magical damage god shows up and hits you? you have no magical defense you will loose half of your hp with one single habilitie and the crit god will last hit you.
Also you are telling that crit items are pure offense, that is true, but what happen when a artemis gets 3 crit items, fatalis, and bloodforge? she will heal half of her hp just hitting you, thats disgusting and hard to avoid, that means you need to get anti heals items, but you literally cant get anymore items because you have 4 anti crit items, boots and some random item. She will hur himself but she can run away and let the magical gods finish you off.
As i say, crits are unfair, op and luck based, Hi-Roz must remove it from the game or just make some changes so they are more easily countered.

As a Warrior, you won't be buildin all of those items. Chances are you are in Solo for Conquest (what the game is balanced around), so you will be building a mixture of defence and power. If the enemy Solo laner is a Hunter, chances are they aren't going Crit (and won't have it for quite some time unless you fed them a lot). If they buiy it early, it won't be useful to them as they won't have the power to back it up.

The Artemis problem - CC, teamwork, and focus her. Mage problem, don't build all the items. You don't need them all, they just help to mitigate it, not negate it. The difference there is key. You reduce the potential of the damage enough to make it matter far less - reduce their attack speed, or overall damage (Shell), or focus them so they die before you do (Frenzy, CC, high damagers focusing them if needed).

It isn't just about anti-crit items either. As already mentioned, CC works wonders to stop people attacking, meaning they won't be critting you in that time. Someone like Kumbha for example, should be targeting the enemy Hunter who is building Crit and take them out of the fight for about 8 seconds or so. Other guardians can do the same to a lesser extent, and some can even bring them to very low health (Ares/Bacchus), or Zone them out the fight (Ymir). This is a Team game, so you will need to rely on your team to do what makes sense - take out the problematic players.

It's about playstyle as much as builds.
RecalledDread Nov 3, 2016 @ 10:54am 
Counter Mercury with slows, and the healing with Anti-heal. Curse is a great item for that situation, along with Pestilence, Midgardian (the the movement speed slow), and Brawlers (for the physical character in your team) or Divine Ruin (for the Magical damage dealer). Witchblade for Mercury attack speed too.

If you are playing Warrior in Joust, against some team you might have to sacrifice damage for defence. you can't always rely on the same type of build each time and expect it to work in all scenarios, it just won't.

The problem might have again been playstyle, which includes teamwork, builds, positioning etc. Again, focus is something that needs to be done. I don't know what the situation was as I wasn;t in the match, but there might have been time where focusing Mercury was best, others where focusing Aphrodite was best. Especially early on where they aren't as good.

Team composition might have plkayed a part in it too - did you have an early team or late team? If it was early, you should have finished sooner, else your team would have fallen off anyway towards to end. If it was late, then it would be down to skill and teamwork as Mercury would have had his items by then.
Leg Muscles Nov 3, 2016 @ 11:47am 
Originally posted by anaphylactic god:
Originally posted by Leg Muscles:
This is irrelevant. Before smite their was no third person moba, would you argue smite should be switch to the sky view in league because all mobas were like that? No.
so your point is : there should be no crits in game becouse it have over-the-shoulder view and all other mobas have sky view ?
i hardly notice any logic here
My point is you have no argument.
Seraph Nov 3, 2016 @ 12:45pm 
If they remove crits some gods will be useless without crit chance like Serqet, Hun batz etc Also it's not a luck based item, it's a probability item. You have items to counter crit too, like Celestial Legion Helm and Nemean Lion.
br0thership Nov 3, 2016 @ 1:36pm 
If you think about it, there are plenty of Auto Attack heavy ADCs in the game and without crits, They would not be viable at all in team fights. Crits are very balanced in the game
EmethSAS Nov 3, 2016 @ 2:42pm 
Originally posted by (P) Pepeaventuras:
we already talk about that, crits are still op and unfair
Not when both teams have them. Not when Magical ADCs who don't have crits are actually more powerful in the meta. Not when your team is working together. There are plenty of reasons saying crits are "OP" and "unfair" is untrue.

Your initial response to my post assumed that I said you needed to buy anti-crit items and I never said that. I have felt the frustration as well when I'm facing a major late-game god with tons of crits and you can hardly get near them without being chunked and you feel like there's nothing you can do and there's no easy defensive item that you can pick to directly counter it, etc. But the fact is, it's the way MOBAs are designed: Tanks try to draw damage, Mages try to quickly burst you down, and ADCs are Carries, it's right in the name, so they are going to do tons of DPS by late game if you let them farm and get there. Carries by definition are weaker earlier in the game and need tons of farm to purchase the expensive damage and/or crit items they need to do tons of damage late game. The name of the game in MOBAs is that you try to make sure your carries are farming better/faster than their carries so that later in the game they can carry you to victory with their damage.

So the possibilities are you're playing a Mage which is a class that specializes in mid-to-late game burst damage and you let the game go on too long so that now you're in trouble because you can't burst the enemy Hunter down fast enough on your own; or you're a Melee class and you need to not be charging head-on at a Hunter with a full-build and need to be ambushing from the side or counter-initiating and locking down that Hunter so your team can burst them down before they can dish out the DPS; or you're playing a Hunter yourself, in which case, you either built wrong so you don't have as much damage as your opponent Hunter or you got outfarmed and you need to work on that, because you have all the same tools at your disposal that they do. OR you're a late-game Mage ADC like Freya or Chronos or Sol in which case you don't need no stinking crits to put out massive DPS, so you're right back to you got outfarmed/outplayed. Try again next time.

The bottom line is that if you're looking for an easy-button direct-counter item to damage, you aren't going to find it, because the game has to end at some point! Crit items are late-game "now it's time to end this" items: you either get them first or your team better outplay their team long enough for your team to get them too... But they aren't going to give you a full counter, much less outright remove, the main way to ensure the game will end and not drag on forever in some WWI re-enactment stalemate scenario... There's a reason defensive items only mitigate damage and have diminishing returns: at some point damage has to prevail and do something or the game never ends.

Learn to farm, learn positioning, learn to ambush/initiate and counter-initiate, learn to outplay your opponent... Or, you know, find another game if you really don't like crits that much, but they're not going away anytime soon. They're an integral part of the game design, particularly in an anti-stalemate-designed MOBA like Smite where they want the game times to be not much longer than 30 minutes. You're spitting into the wind and refusing to learn anything different otherwise. Sorry.
Last edited by EmethSAS; Nov 3, 2016 @ 2:48pm
I love the people trying to argue that a %chance thing (like Hearthstone players defending their game) isn't luckbased

If it has a SLIGHT amount of luck based on RNG and not just timing, it's considered luckbased as luck will be able to determine an outcome sometimes, or always *cough* Hearthstone *cough*
Last edited by TEA || IT'S CHRISTMAS; Nov 3, 2016 @ 4:48pm
< >
Showing 1-15 of 54 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Nov 3, 2016 @ 8:56am
Posts: 54