Can't deal Damage in PVP; Bots Easy!

[󠀡]

I can play bots and deal damage like crazy. I play pvp and I stuggle to kill a freaking minion. What's the deal?!

[sikosis999]

u r a potato?

[Ishamael]

Originally posted by 󠀡:

I can play bots and deal damage like crazy. I play pvp and I stuggle to kill a freaking minion. What's the deal?!

learn what to build and on who and how to play the god and stuff and then you will be able to kill some minions :)

[󠀡]

No it's like the damage is completely different.

I play Anubis and in Co-Op I can [3] and clear a wave with no items. I play PVP and the minions laugh as the hands from [3] just tickle them.

Even the Gods just hp bars don't even move. They just stand in my ult even though I am at full build:

Warlock+Bancrofts+Divine+ObShard+Reaver+Tahuti

Bancrofts+Magi+Typhons+ObShard+Magus+Reaver

I look at my damage at the end of the game and I am usually top of the team but when I am playing the God's HP bars don't even move.

If I play Co-Op then I am getting 30/0 compared to PVP which is 5/6

It makes no sense.

[Anonn 20 16]

i think the minions in co-op are just outdated. minions in the matches have armor which goes up as time goes on. it's not obvious when you make the change from co-op into pvp tho so your confusion is understandable.

[RecalledDread]

Is it possible that the bots are lower level than the players are at the same time in a match?
If so, that could be why. Some base protections, plus getting more items online earlier than the bots do will change your experience too.

If you can record an example of you doing no damage, and show the builds of the characters involved, that might help people here see what the issue is.

Going 30/0 in Coop is kind of expected. Bots are dumb and predictable. They don't play like people do, and if you are used to playing against them, you will be surprised at what players will do, even newer ones.

For instance, bots always run away once they reach a certain health threshold.
Low health players might back off a little, bait you into using abilities or move up, or even become aggressive and dive/re-engage you.
Bots also stand right on the edge of the tower line trying to hit you. Players might dive you, or back off.

[󠀡]

Well, I finally won one.. I don't know what changed.. I was able to actually deal damage.

Opponent's Surrendered.

5/2/7 Bancrofts/Magi/Typhons

My player damage was 9100 and the next highest was 4800.

[RecalledDread]

Originally posted by 󠀡:

Well, I finally won one.. I don't know what changed.. I was able to actually deal damage.

Opponent's Surrendered.

5/2/7 Bancrofts/Magi/Typhons

My player damage was 9100 and the next highest was 4800.

No boots? Or is Magi the boots? If so, Shoes of Focus are also nice for the cooldown reduction. But either one works.

You have no penetration?
To be fair, you might not need penetration in the first couple of items anyway, depending on the match. As Anubis, Spear of the Magus is a nice item for it though.

In case you didn't know, if you go full power, but have no penetration items, you will do far less damage. Protections will mitigate a lot by the end of the game.

[󠀡]

Originally posted by RecalledDread:

Originally posted by 󠀡:

Well, I finally won one.. I don't know what changed.. I was able to actually deal damage.

Opponent's Surrendered.

5/2/7 Bancrofts/Magi/Typhons

My player damage was 9100 and the next highest was 4800.

No boots? Or is Magi the boots? If so, Shoes of Focus are also nice for the cooldown reduction. But either one works.

You have no penetration?
To be fair, you might not need penetration in the first couple of items anyway, depending on the match. As Anubis, Spear of the Magus is a nice item for it though.

In case you didn't know, if you go full power, but have no penetration items, you will do far less damage. Protections will mitigate a lot by the end of the game.

Shoes of the Magi

I was thinking about doing a 40% pen build without Breastplate but now I am thinking Breastplate 4th item and just do Oblivion Shard 5th and not even do Soul Reaver at all. It's still a 30% pen.

Shoes of Magi give Lifesteal which is great for Anubis.

I like doing Glass Cannon with Anubis because he has so much life steal that it's almost pointless to worry about defensive items but maybe a bit of cooldown could be useful in longer team fights and increasing my dps over time.

I will have to try Mantle of Discord/Breastplate of Valor and see which I like more..

Mantle of Discord could be the play. 1s of Stun on an attacker could give me enough time to [3][2][1] combo for a full heal and kill. Plus a 10% cooldown will probably be plenty.

[Zake]

Yo, I think there is something different in regards to damage in lower difficulty bot games, something beyond the player just getting ahead by normal game mechanics.

At any rate, I'm too lazy to test it, so it might just be a feeling.

In pvp, when you do no damage, consider who you are hitting. Some people will end up building more tanky, which can drastically reduce the damage you deal.

For build, consider trying the Bancroft's talon and Typhon's fang combo. That'll give you more lifesteal than you'll ever need, aha. I think it is a combo that still works well on Anubis? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[󠀡]

Originally posted by Zake:

Yo, I think there is something different in regards to damage in lower difficulty bot games, something beyond the player just getting ahead by normal game mechanics.

At any rate, I'm too lazy to test it, so it might just be a feeling.

In pvp, when you do no damage, consider who you are hitting. Some people will end up building more tanky, which can drastically reduce the damage you deal.

For build, consider trying the Bancroft's talon and Typhon's fang combo. That'll give you more lifesteal than you'll ever need, aha. I think it is a combo that still works well on Anubis? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Bancrofts+MagiShoes+Typhons is the must have first three items for any anubis build.

My problem is always deciding my 4th item.

I think it was just something I was missing yesterday. I couldn't put any damage into Guan Yu, Ymir, or Baron... They did have a Baron on their team so maybe we just didn't have enough Anti-Heal...

I am trying to figure out if Pythagorem, Obsidian, or Spear of the Magus should be the forth item.

[Aether VI]

one thing i learned when i was still new to the game is, falling behind in a real game makes a big impact on your game play and your ability to make a comeback. gotta learn how to keep that xp flowing and how to hold constant pressure on the wave and jungle between pvp confilct. watch some pros play the game and watch their "routines". I enjoy watching the guys with Obey Alliance currently, they may not have the best record but they are gods. im sure you are doing all kinds of things wrong, like we all do. That is why i love this game, it has depth.

[RecalledDread]

Originally posted by 󠀡:

I was thinking about doing a 40% pen build without Breastplate but now I am thinking Breastplate 4th item and just do Oblivion Shard 5th and not even do Soul Reaver at all. It's still a 30% pen.

I like doing Glass Cannon with Anubis because he has so much life steal that it's almost pointless to worry about defensive items but maybe a bit of cooldown could be useful in longer team fights and increasing my dps over time.

I will have to try Mantle of Discord/Breastplate of Valor and see which I like more..

Mantle of Discord could be the play. 1s of Stun on an attacker could give me enough time to [3][2][1] combo for a full heal and kill. Plus a 10% cooldown will probably be plenty.

Percentage Penetration will only be good against tanky targets. A Mage might have 50 protections by late game, 40% of that is nothing really. Spear of the Magus on gods like Anubis would be better.
Obsidian Shard is a nice addition if you want to kill tanks though.

Mantle is OK. But if you are that low, you're likely dead anyway. If you don't already have your 3 at your feet and are not currently using your 1 or 4 at that point, you likely wouldn't be saved by Mantle passive.
If you are getting Breastplate because of the CDR, why not get Chronos Pendant instead? Same CDR, but it has damage and a nice passive. The extra damage might save you - through your lifesteal - where the protections might not. You don't really have health, so you'll die quick anyway.

Originally posted by 󠀡:

I am trying to figure out if Pythagorem, Obsidian, or Spear of the Magus should be the forth item.

Definitely Spear of the Magus 4th item. I'd even consider it 3rd if you feel it's needed a little early. It's probably 1 of his best items, and works better with every ability he has. His Passive should help against tankier targets for now. By that stage in the game, it's unlikely any tanky targets will have high Magical Defence anyway.

If you get a 3rd lifesteal item, you are really hampering yourself. Antiheal is so easy to build into, that you would just be asking to be killed at that point with Pythagorem. Plus you want Penetration soon.

[󠀡]

Originally posted by RecalledDread:

If you get a 3rd lifesteal item, you are really hampering yourself. Antiheal is so easy to build into, that you would just be asking to be killed at that point with Pythagorem. Plus you want Penetration soon.

You would think that but it rarely ever happens.

But what your saying is to stack the flat pen more than % pen unless they have tanks with a lot of magical resistance?

Items 4-6 = Magus+Desolation+DivineRuin

[RecalledDread]

Originally posted by 󠀡:

You would think that but it rarely ever happens.

But what your saying is to stack the flat pen more than % pen unless they have tanks with a lot of magical resistance?

Items 4-6 = Magus+Desolation+DivineRuin

Flat pen will be better against squishy gods. The percentage pen won't do much to them.
Percentage pen will work better against tanky gods, since they'll eventually build the protections. But not until later usually. Physical defence seems to be more common early on too (towers and minions deal physical damage).
If they have more than 2 tanky gods, maybe get some percentage pen, otherwise I don't usually bother with it. It depends on how the match is going.

You don't even really need to stack it that much. Spear of the Magus is a must on him. Beyond that? Maybe Divine Ruin if you want antiheal. Otherwise Obsidian Shard for the tanks.
His passive also steals protections for 5s, so he kind of has built in penetration anyway.

Getting Magus + Desolation + Divine is a little much though. I'd usually build him with;
- Shoes of Focus
- Bancroft's Talon

Then in no particular order;
- Spear of the Magus
- Typhon's Fang
- Gem of Isolation
- Situational item

Situational item might include;
- Obsidian Shard
- Ethereal Staff
- Chronos Pendant
- Charon's Coin
- Doom Orb
- Divine Ruin

Then replacing boots with another item in the late game, but it rarely gets to that point.

Tanks have reduced protections from his passive anyway, so Percentage Pen is actually hurt a little (his passive steal s 21 protections). If I don't bother with Obsidian Shard, I'll mostly focus the Mages and Hunters. Guardians and Warriors won't last too long anyway by late game, even without Obsidian Shard.
Getting a 3rd Lifesteal item isn't worth it imo. He gets 99% healing bonus from lifesteal from his passive, along with Bancrofts and Typhons Fang. Adding Pythag's just doesn't matter at that point.

[󠀡]

Thank you, I found than doing Magus third was pretty good against the people that I am facing off against, then do Typhon's forth item.

The last game I played I went 10/0 with a 2 level lead over every other player. I didn't even get to finish building Typhon's.



So I was testing the items in training:

Lvl 20 Odin 100 Protections

Bancrofts+MagiShoes+Magus+Typhons using only ULT for damage


With Obsidian Shard:

Spear of Desolation = 118
Pythagorem's Piece = 117
Soul Reaver = 116
Divine Ruin = 114
Rod of Tahuti = 113
Charon Coin = 112
Doom Orb = 111
Ring of Hecate = 106-109
Chronos = 106
Gem of Isolation = 105


Without Obsidian Shard:

Charon Coin = 88
Spear of Desolation = 86
Pythagorems = 86
Doom Orb = 85



So you can see that from both lists Pythagorems is the best choice in that it provides team bonuses and gives the best damage output 2nd only to Spear of Desolation by 1 point.

I think I will go with Pythagorems as the 5th item. Extra power, life steal, and team buffs.