Time to talk seriously about Hi-Rez gem fraud in CIS countries.

[Harem Route]

First things first, this is not necessarily a hate post. I advise people against harassing Hi-Rez employees or fellow community members.

However, I feel like I have to bring attention to this situation to as many people as possible.

Ok, without further ado, here is a synopsis of what has happened:
There exists such a thing as "regional prices". Games and services have different cost, depending on the country. For example, if a game costs 60$, often it will also cost 60€, even though $ does not equal €. In a large number of CIS countries (Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan etc.), prices are often cheaper. Now, I'm not here to argue about if it's fair or not, it is just how it is. Be it just economy, piracy or whatnot, but it's for the most part agreed that prices have to be lower there for the games to sale at all. This, in turn, comes with a number of disadvantages, like games being region locked for example, or sometimes having no English localization in them, inability to gift games outside the region etc., to prevent abusing the system. Which is, let's be honest, a fair trade.

But that's just a general situation. Now, back to Smite and Hi-Rez.
The cost of gems, since at the very least 2016 (I apologize, I do not have the data prior to it), has been consistent. In Russia, the most expensive pack cost 1663 RUB (around 26$ give or take). But before screaming "omg, it's so cheap, don't complain!!!" remember, that economy and salaries are very different here, compared to, say, USA.
However, recently, the price for gems has quite literally doubled. For the most expensive one, it has become 3150 RUB (and I apologize, I can only present numbers in RUB, because while I know that this issue is present in other CIS countries, I do not know the exact numbers).

Sometimes, mistakes happen. In the last year, a number of games has come out with prices converted from Dollars to Roubles. For example, "Injustice 2". The price, however, was fixed to regional within a week.

So, assuming that was an honest mistake, because, I remind you, the price has been consistent since at least 2016, I wrote to Smite support, asking for further elaboration. So here I would like to provide you our conversation, so nothing is taken out of context. It was short, but informative.

Diposting pertama kali oleh me:

Good daytime.

After logging in recently, I have discovered that the price of buying gems in my country (as well as a few others, but they do not concern me right now) has been increased. Almost doubled.

I want to ask if this is a bug or an intended change.

If this is a bug, then I understand, things like this happen, but I really hope you will prioritize fixing it, because this severely affects your Divine Uprising event, or specifically my ability to pay for it. Which is in turn bad for you.

If this is not a bug, but instead is an undocumented change that you have not warned your customers about, then I would like to request a refund for everything I have spend during this event, because this sudden price increase has screwed me over, and getting the final reward will be simply impossible.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Diposting pertama kali oleh HiRez:

Greetings,

The increase of pricing was as intended given the exchange rate of the Ruble to the Dollar, we've had to make an adjustment to the localized pricing for Russian players.

This was a decision that is out of our control and we apologize for the inconvenience that this may have caused you.

If you need any further assistance from customer support please let us know.

Thank you for contacting Hi-Rez Studios Customer Support

Diposting pertama kali oleh Me:

In that case, if you are not going to revert the prices, then like I mentioned, I would like to receive a refund or an otherwise compensation, in money or gems, for everything that I have spent during the Divine Uprising event (for which, if needed, I can provide a full sum and dates of purchases made).

I know of your policy on refunds, but this is a different issue. It is not me buying something by mistake. It is not me being unsatisfied with the skins. It is, for all intents and purposes, you changing the price of the skin (Tier 5 Bellona) in the middle of transaction, which is a fraud.
You gave absolutely no warning to your players that this would happen, and I have been spending money on this event expecting the final reward. But now that you have, again, with absolutely no prior notification, doubled the gem prices, you have made it virtually impossible to get it (twice as expensive).

The prices in the game stayed the same since at the very least 2016 and the exchange rate was even higher back then, so do not tell me it was out of your hands. It was a calculated decision that, pardon my language, screwed the huge chunk of your players over. I am sad to say it as a player, who has been playing this game for at least 3 years, who loves it, has been and still wants to support it (both in terms of positive recommendations and monetarily), but an "apology" is just not enough. This is a huge scam, and I just can't leave it as is. And I feel like I have to remind you, that you are not the first studio that tried something like this. "Paradox" did it once, and it ended up in a huge backlash. I advise you to google that case, a lot of media has covered it.

I do apologize if I sound agitated, but this is a very serious issue, that involves quite a substantial sum of money. It is not just a minor inconvenience. So I sincerely hope that you will deal with it appropriately.

Thank you.

Diposting pertama kali oleh HiRez:

Greetings,

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused.
Unfortunately Customer Support can offer no compensation regarding this matter.

Regrettably we cannot process a refund for any in-game items because the user does not like them, the item was purchased by accident or the availability of the item has been changed or altered. You can read our full refund policy here:

http://hirezstudios.force.com/support/articles/en_US/Knowledge/refunds

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused.

If you need any further assistance from customer support please let us know.

Thank you for contacting Hi-Rez Studios Customer Support

And that concludes our conversation. Absolutely to no surprise, they refuse their fault in the matter, say that it is out of their hands and refuse any sort of compensation.

However, I still think that my point stands. This whole situation, should it happen at any other time in the game's life, would be sad, disappointing, but overall no big deal. However, with it happening in the middle of the "Divine Uprising" event, it pretty much is the same as increasing the skin price in the middle of transaction.
Imagine if you are paying for anything, but instead of the product, you receive a notification, that you - oops - need to pay twice as much. And no, you can't get what you already payed back.

To me, it is the definition of "fraud".

So, like I said in the beginning, I'm not here to harass HiRez employees (and if I need to remove our conversation, just say so, I will edit this post, just summarizing the point), especially the support who was polite and to the point. I still love the game. But I think people should be aware of it, and people should be vocal about this issue. Be it in the reviews, forum, reddit posts or other media. This is nothing to just brush off. This is a very serious issue of a company abusing their power, scamming their customers and us being unable to do anything about it, except just one thing. Not be silent. Talk.

Thank you for your time.

[Harem Route]

Diposting pertama kali oleh RecalledDread:

First of all;
You spent money on gems before the price change. So you got them at the lower rate that you would normally have had.

If the price was like this the whole time I was playing the game (or longer, again, I can not testify to this), aka 2016-2018, then it's not "lower than normally", it's THE normal price for the region. During sales, we have the same discounts as everybody else. So do not compare USA prices and CIS ones. Compare CIS standard and CIS increased.

[RecalledDread]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tom Sawyer:

Diposting pertama kali oleh RecalledDread:

First of all;
You spent money on gems before the price change. So you got them at the lower rate that you would normally have had.

If the price was like this the whole time I was playing the game (or longer, again, I can not testify to this), aka 2016-2018, then it's not "lower than normally", it's THE normal price for the region. During sales, we have the same discounts as everybody else. So do not compare USA prices and CIS ones. Compare CIS standard and CIS increased.

I didn't say lower THAN normal, reread it, you clearly misread a word.

[Harem Route]

Diposting pertama kali oleh RecalledDread:

I didn't say lower THAN normal, reread it, you clearly misread a word.

My apologies. I've been at it for too long, discussing the issue with both HiRez and the community.

[Hydrataur]

Imagine it like this.

You buy a video game with the intent of buying DLC. You start playing the game and you're having a nice time. Then, before you buy the DLC, the price doubles.
It's an incredibly similar situation to what you're going through.

Do you think that the makers of the game owe you a refund? No, they don't. You bought the game/skins, you had fun with it and because a different part of the game/event now costs more you want a refund for the entire thing.

[Amigo]

Ill explain to you why what they did was a scummy practice. This explanation of exchange rate is utter bullcrap and it just makes the whole act even worse.

Say you are using the services of a particular ISP. There are several ISPs in your city but you liked this particular one for some reason. Then this ISP tell you the price is going to be doubled without change in quality or anyyhing else. So what do you do? You tell this ISP to go fk himself and simply switch to a different one.

Now this is a different situation. Say you like ice hockey. You have equipment, you are an amateur and you play for fun and you love it. But there is only one ice field available in your city and another one is really far away and unfeasible for you to reach. Ok so the ice field owner tells you the price for your game is going to be doubled. You ask why and he says nothing. So what do you do? You either ♥♥♥♥ it up and pay double or you drop this ice hockey play all together.

So hirez here is the ice field owner. Scummy stuff.

[Amigo]

And a few more things. I used to work in finance so I know some stuff.

1) exchange rate has been hanging around 60 for a long long time now. It didn't happen yesterday, last week or last month. It happened more than a year ago. Prices for games in steam havent changed since then. Why? See below

2) exchange rate has nothing to do with real wages and salaries which are paid in RUB. People didn't become richer all of a sudden because of the exchange rate change. Steam knows if they decide to fking tie game prices to exchange rate no one will fking be buying games in russia because of the insane prices.

[Ha!SpidersCan'tJump]

Amigo, you forgetting the other scummy stuff: if there were only price of gems changed, but thats not true. Right now there are this thing, like, skin tier, from 1 to 5, but there are no more non-exclusive t2 and t3 skins, and there is now bonus tier, like, ares skin, that cast 750 gems (I definitly can see it as a t3 skin, not t4 skin, that cost 400 (t3) and 600 (t4)).
And it is not really about a field to play on, it is more about some cosmetic stuff to play with on a field, maybe energy drink store and stuff like this. You can play without it, yes, and i guess most countries that got doubled the price will not buy gems any more, but that is really sad.
And nearly no one is talking about it on forums

[Mother of Exiles]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Amigo:

Ill explain to you why what they did was a scummy practice. This explanation of exchange rate is utter bullcrap and it just makes the whole act even worse.

Say you are using the services of a particular ISP. There are several ISPs in your city but you liked this particular one for some reason. Then this ISP tell you the price is going to be doubled without change in quality or anyyhing else. So what do you do? You tell this ISP to go fk himself and simply switch to a different one.

Now this is a different situation. Say you like ice hockey. You have equipment, you are an amateur and you play for fun and you love it. But there is only one ice field available in your city and another one is really far away and unfeasible for you to reach. Ok so the ice field owner tells you the price for your game is going to be doubled. You ask why and he says nothing. So what do you do? You either ♥♥♥♥ it up and pay double or you drop this ice hockey play all together.

So hirez here is the ice field owner. Scummy stuff.

The comparison makes absolute 0 sense and is frankly, retarded. The ISP thing implies there's only one game in the MOBA genre for people to play, which there isn't.
And Hi-Rez gave a valid reason


Here's a more apt comparison. You have this store inbetween two towns, both towns come to there and both have different currency, and currency value.

For a while, at first. One town is having to pay a lot more while the other one is far lower. So to fix this(and yeah, most likely to help the stores profits included). They heighten the town that had to pay less than the other. It makes it fair on both sides and aye, does benefit the store. It works just fine

[Mother of Exiles]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ha!SpidersCan'tJump:

Amigo, you forgetting the other scummy stuff: if there were only price of gems changed, but thats not true. Right now there are this thing, like, skin tier, from 1 to 5, but there are no more non-exclusive t2 and t3 skins, and there is now bonus tier, like, ares skin, that cast 750 gems (I definitly can see it as a t3 skin, not t4 skin, that cost 400 (t3) and 600 (t4)).
And it is not really about a field to play on, it is more about some cosmetic stuff to play with on a field, maybe energy drink store and stuff like this. You can play without it, yes, and i guess most countries that got doubled the price will not buy gems any more, but that is really sad.
And nearly no one is talking about it on forums

Wait until it's out of bundle, I believe, should go back to 600
Also, Ymir skin recently and the Ravana skin also recently. Both non-exclusive

[Harem Route]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Celine:

Here's a more apt comparison. You have this store inbetween two towns, both towns come to there and both have different currency, and currency value.

For a while, at first. One town is having to pay a lot more while the other one is far lower. So to fix this(and yeah, most likely to help the stores profits included). They heighten the town that had to pay less than the other. It makes it fair on both sides and aye, does benefit the store. It works just fine

You keep forgetting the most important thing in this comparison though. Let's say the town who payed more is A and the other is B.
The shop proclaims that there is this limited offer, a new shiny toaster. But there's a catch. To get that toaster you need to send them money in 3 installments. But hey! Just so you don't feel bad spending money over the long period of time, the shop will send you spoons for your payments! Such a deal!!!
Granted, the total price for this toaster is still a 100$ for A and 50$ for B, but as you said, their economy is different, so when you compare it to their salaries, it's about the same %.

And so, they start making payments. They made 1. They made 2.

Citizen A will eventually make the 3rd payment and get their toaster. Sure, it's more expensive, but he was ready, he had that money, he knew what he signed for.

Citizen B though, with absolutely no notification prior to this campaign, is informed that his third installment has to be twice as much as the previous ones. There is no explaination from the store, except "that's our new policy, tough luck!". And of course, there is no refund if citizen B decides to refuse and not buy the toaster.

So, what does the citizen B do?

Do they grit their teeth, pay the suddenly increased price and get the toaster?
Or do they just accept the fact that they just spent 33$ on bloody spoons, but at least don't waste 33 more to get the toaster that they should've got for just 17?



As much as town A wants it, this situation is not about equality. At least not while that toaster promotion is going on. If it happened before, then citizen B would be prepared and make different decisions. If it happened after, citizen B would have to adapt for further purchases. But it did happen during it, and it is incredibly shady.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Celine:

And Hi-Rez gave a valid reason

And sorry, but no, they didn't. Just take 5 minutes and google the exchange rate of dollar to rouble in 2016, 2017 and 2018 years. Then tell me how substantial the difference was.
In all these years, until now, the cost of gems haven't changed once.

[jae]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tom Sawyer:

First things first, this is not necessarily a hate post. I advise people against harassing Hi-Rez employees or fellow community members.

However, I feel like I have to bring attention to this situation to as many people as possible.

Ok, without further ado, here is a synopsis of what has happened:
There exists such a thing as "regional prices". Games and services have different cost, depending on the country. For example, if a game costs 60$, often it will also cost 60€, even though $ does not equal €. In a large number of CIS countries (Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan etc.), prices are often cheaper. Now, I'm not here to argue about if it's fair or not, it is just how it is. Be it just economy, piracy or whatnot, but it's for the most part agreed that prices have to be lower there for the games to sale at all. This, in turn, comes with a number of disadvantages, like games being region locked for example, or sometimes having no English localization in them, inability to gift games outside the region etc., to prevent abusing the system. Which is, let's be honest, a fair trade.

But that's just a general situation. Now, back to Smite and Hi-Rez.
The cost of gems, since at the very least 2016 (I apologize, I do not have the data prior to it), has been consistent. In Russia, the most expensive pack cost 1663 RUB (around 26$ give or take). But before screaming "omg, it's so cheap, don't complain!!!" remember, that economy and salaries are very different here, compared to, say, USA.
However, recently, the price for gems has quite literally doubled. For the most expensive one, it has become 3150 RUB (and I apologize, I can only present numbers in RUB, because while I know that this issue is present in other CIS countries, I do not know the exact numbers).

Sometimes, mistakes happen. In the last year, a number of games has come out with prices converted from Dollars to Roubles. For example, "Injustice 2". The price, however, was fixed to regional within a week.

So, assuming that was an honest mistake, because, I remind you, the price has been consistent since at least 2016, I wrote to Smite support, asking for further elaboration. So here I would like to provide you our conversation, so nothing is taken out of context. It was short, but informative.

Diposting pertama kali oleh me:

Good daytime.

After logging in recently, I have discovered that the price of buying gems in my country (as well as a few others, but they do not concern me right now) has been increased. Almost doubled.

I want to ask if this is a bug or an intended change.

If this is a bug, then I understand, things like this happen, but I really hope you will prioritize fixing it, because this severely affects your Divine Uprising event, or specifically my ability to pay for it. Which is in turn bad for you.

If this is not a bug, but instead is an undocumented change that you have not warned your customers about, then I would like to request a refund for everything I have spend during this event, because this sudden price increase has screwed me over, and getting the final reward will be simply impossible.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Diposting pertama kali oleh HiRez:

Greetings,

The increase of pricing was as intended given the exchange rate of the Ruble to the Dollar, we've had to make an adjustment to the localized pricing for Russian players.

This was a decision that is out of our control and we apologize for the inconvenience that this may have caused you.

If you need any further assistance from customer support please let us know.

Thank you for contacting Hi-Rez Studios Customer Support

Diposting pertama kali oleh Me:

In that case, if you are not going to revert the prices, then like I mentioned, I would like to receive a refund or an otherwise compensation, in money or gems, for everything that I have spent during the Divine Uprising event (for which, if needed, I can provide a full sum and dates of purchases made).

I know of your policy on refunds, but this is a different issue. It is not me buying something by mistake. It is not me being unsatisfied with the skins. It is, for all intents and purposes, you changing the price of the skin (Tier 5 Bellona) in the middle of transaction, which is a fraud.
You gave absolutely no warning to your players that this would happen, and I have been spending money on this event expecting the final reward. But now that you have, again, with absolutely no prior notification, doubled the gem prices, you have made it virtually impossible to get it (twice as expensive).

The prices in the game stayed the same since at the very least 2016 and the exchange rate was even higher back then, so do not tell me it was out of your hands. It was a calculated decision that, pardon my language, screwed the huge chunk of your players over. I am sad to say it as a player, who has been playing this game for at least 3 years, who loves it, has been and still wants to support it (both in terms of positive recommendations and monetarily), but an "apology" is just not enough. This is a huge scam, and I just can't leave it as is. And I feel like I have to remind you, that you are not the first studio that tried something like this. "Paradox" did it once, and it ended up in a huge backlash. I advise you to google that case, a lot of media has covered it.

I do apologize if I sound agitated, but this is a very serious issue, that involves quite a substantial sum of money. It is not just a minor inconvenience. So I sincerely hope that you will deal with it appropriately.

Thank you.

Diposting pertama kali oleh HiRez:

Greetings,

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused.
Unfortunately Customer Support can offer no compensation regarding this matter.

Regrettably we cannot process a refund for any in-game items because the user does not like them, the item was purchased by accident or the availability of the item has been changed or altered. You can read our full refund policy here:

http://hirezstudios.force.com/support/articles/en_US/Knowledge/refunds

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused.

If you need any further assistance from customer support please let us know.

Thank you for contacting Hi-Rez Studios Customer Support

And that concludes our conversation. Absolutely to no surprise, they refuse their fault in the matter, say that it is out of their hands and refuse any sort of compensation.

However, I still think that my point stands. This whole situation, should it happen at any other time in the game's life, would be sad, disappointing, but overall no big deal. However, with it happening in the middle of the "Divine Uprising" event, it pretty much is the same as increasing the skin price in the middle of transaction.
Imagine if you are paying for anything, but instead of the product, you receive a notification, that you - oops - need to pay twice as much. And no, you can't get what you already payed back.

To me, it is the definition of "fraud".

So, like I said in the beginning, I'm not here to harass HiRez employees (and if I need to remove our conversation, just say so, I will edit this post, just summarizing the point), especially the support who was polite and to the point. I still love the game. But I think people should be aware of it, and people should be vocal about this issue. Be it in the reviews, forum, reddit posts or other media. This is nothing to just brush off. This is a very serious issue of a company abusing their power, scamming their customers and us being unable to do anything about it, except just one thing. Not be silent. Talk.

Thank you for your time.

why did you not post this on offcial smite fourms where hirez would have read it

[Harem Route]

Diposting pertama kali oleh jaedon1956:

why did you not post this on offcial smite fourms where hirez would have read it

Two reasons.
First - it would most definitely be deleted within hours. Who would want to hear bad stuff about them on their own forums?
Second - what would they say? "Tough luck, but still no refunds"? I mean, HiRez support is still HiRez. They wouldn't go against their own.

Here, on the other hand, it may at least motivate people affected to speak up, mention the issue in their reviews and raise awareness overall.

[RecalledDread]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tom Sawyer:

Diposting pertama kali oleh jaedon1956:

why did you not post this on offcial smite fourms where hirez would have read it

Two reasons.
First - it would most definitely be deleted within hours. Who would want to hear bad stuff about them on their own forums?
Second - what would they say? "Tough luck, but still no refunds"? I mean, HiRez support is still HiRez. They wouldn't go against their own.

Here, on the other hand, it may at least motivate people affected to speak up, mention the issue in their reviews and raise awareness overall.

First - You don't know that for sure.

Just because something has been one way for a long time, doesn't mena that can't change. And is there anywhere that says they have to inform everyone of these changes? If so, link a source.
How do you know they didn't inform anyone? Maybe it's not somewhere you would normally go (as in, a specific twitter account, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ forums, reddit etc).

[Amigo]

I can't even imagine the sh i tstorm ppl would create if the prices were doubled in the US. I'd sure lvoe to see that. Anyway I'm done with this game.

[RhodosGuard]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Amigo:

I can't even imagine the sh i tstorm ppl would create if the prices were doubled in the US. I'd sure lvoe to see that. Anyway I'm done with this game.

Considering that russian prices are already way lower than western prices, I highly doubt that they'll ever have to adjust prices.
The fact that everything in those countries is so cheap is one of the factors that lead to AAA fresh releases being sold at 15€/$ on ebay days after release only needing a VPN to be activated.
I think it'd been inherently more "unfair" or more of a scam if a simple change in location, IP and Connection would lead to a 60%+ price drop, by buying Gems through russian prices.