Are you a Guardian or retardian?

[Mister Sir]

It's a simple question with a simple answer. I bring this up because guardian players make me wanna burn smite in a volcano crater since those people mostly manage to give me aid through visual means by the way they play.

Now, this is not about talking ♥♥♥♥ to others but so many people in this game got no idea what to do as a guardian, even ones that try to be all tank and frontlining.

If building half dmg and half prot sounds like you, or going full prot and then just diving into enemy team because they can't kill you easily, while leaving your team behind sounds like you, then I am sorry but you are a retardian. Bad joke, I know, but let me relish in it. Anyways, you probably hear people talk ♥♥♥♥ to you and you don't know why, you did build defenses and go in, so you don't understand what they want from you, so in your turn you blame then for not following.

So listen, take a second and just look at the title of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ role, Guardian, you suppose to guard, not vanguad into 5 man Leroy Jenkins style like badass. When you just do that, it leaves other team free to ignore the ♥♥♥♥ out of you, go past you, and kill your entire team. It is not about your team following you, they can't, they will die because you do not stand between them and the other team.

As a guardian your first priority got to be the team, you stay right in front of them, body block dmg then they taking too much of it and if you must go in, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ let them know and still do not charge in leaving them all behind. You are the wall, they are the trump, and the wall has to be unbreakable, the wall should not charge in, punching people, I know... bad jokes night.

I hope all retardians got the point and I will welcome you into real guardian club with wide spread arms, I really want all of you to finally sign the ♥♥♥♥ in, believe me. Also lets all refrain from saying that this is just how game is, I know that, you know that. This is why I am here, since I like the game and I do not want it to be ♥♥♥♥, if we all communicate and tell others where they ♥♥♥♥ up without agression, and with some humor, the game gets better for everyone.

Cheers.

[RecalledDread]

Actually there are times where building half damage (or at least an item or 2) is fine. usually it will be the end of the build, and you'll be a fair amount ahead of the enemy to be able to stay alive whilst dealing the damage.

Certain Characters (Cabrakan or Bacchus for example) seem to do well with a couple of damage items, compared to full protections - but this is just my experience playing as guardians.

It probably depends to some degree on the mode you're playing as well. Modes where the gold you get over time is higher make it easier and safer to go for these items and still do well.

But I do agree, the guardians that just run in without warning, then blame their team should learn how to use the VGS, or at least think about what they just did, and learn from that so it can go better next time around.
At the same time, guardians who use the VGS, have seen that their allies are around with most of their health and mana, and get no support from the team have a right to be frustrated.

[RecalledDread]

Also worth noting, that your job isn't just to bodyblock. It is to harrass the enemy players. Some gods are great at doing this (if you know what you're doing with the abilities). Ares, Bacchus, Cabrakan, can all keep the enemy from being too aggressive. This means you can push them back in lane (careful of enemy ganks), hopfully making enemy team lose gold from minions to the tower, and give yourself a little breathing room.

Ares is good for damaging them, they will likely run back a bit, giving your adc time to clear. Bacchus and Cabrakan (after using 1) moving towards the enemy will likely have a similar effect (to avoid bellflop or stun/ult).

[Mister Sir]

Some dmg is fine, I always get item or two for that. The main issue here is people not understanding guardians role.

[PikaTheChu]

Publicado originalmente por Vicious:

Some dmg is fine, I always get item or two for that. The main issue here is people not understanding guardians role.

Neither do you, a guardian is not a tank, he can be played tanky but must not be, like any other class. Some guardians are awesome solos or junglers, imagine if they built full tank.
I guess you mistook guardian with support.

[Jusaboi]

My Khepri:

Shoes of Focus
Hide of the Urchin
Soul Reaver
Witchblade
Bulwark of Hope
Gem of Isolation

Sanctuary
Meditation


I use 1 to pull a single enemy away from safe areas for our other players to kill, or if it's chasing a low health teammate I pull it away

I use 2 and 3 for helping in a fight

I try to use 4 right when teammate is about to die. Sometimes I'm too slow, sometimes teammate lives longer than expected.

I also try to take most of the damage, and let teammates get the bad guy.

EDIT: If I'm using him wrong, please understand that I'm new to Khepri. I have ~70 worshippers at the moment.

[PikaTheChu]

Publicado originalmente por Ju55i.K:

My Khepri:

Shoes of Focus
Hide of the Urchin
Soul Reaver
Witchblade
Bulwark of Hope
Gem of Isolation

Sanctuary
Meditation


I use 1 to pull a single enemy away from safe areas for our other players to kill, or if it's chasing a low health teammate I pull it away

I use 2 and 3 for helping in a fight

I try to use 4 right when teammate is about to die. Sometimes I'm too slow, sometimes teammate lives longer than expected.

I also try to take most of the damage, and let teammates get the bad guy.

EDIT: If I'm using him wrong, please understand that I'm new to Khepri. I have ~70 worshippers at the moment.

There is no wrong way of using a god, some people try to copy&paste builds of pros and because of that they suck balls, you gotta build what YOU are most comfortable with, not other people.

[Dark_Clown]

what you said sounds just like a ton of salty bs
guardians shouldnt go in against 5 ? tell that ares or bachus
you arent just a stupid wall that bodyblocks most dmg most of the time the guardian is the main initiator thats what they all have a skill for besides khepri

going after what you said all pro players would count as "retardian"
just watch ppl like trixtank play

[King Roger]

I appreciate the advice. When i was new i picked Xing cause he was tank-ish. Just trying to learn the mechanics of the game to even get a kill was hard. But his ult. gave me the abillity to do some thing on the field. And know I play 90% all games with Xing. Xing in Xing Out

[Dark_Clown]

on a sidenote ...i rly hope you just mixed up terms and are talking about support otherwise your lil rant would even more pointless with a ton of guardians in solo or things like ymir jungle

[The Sly Fox]

I know there are bad support players out there, and they can be a special blend of stupid, you don't sound well versed in what exactly a support needs to do. This is largely defined by their kit. If you look at Athena, you need to barrel into the enemy to initiate, as her kit is meant to lock down for a small window to allow your team to roll in. Playing Khepri, however, you sit back, counter CC, and lock down anyone trying to mess with your back line. Xing Tian is a bit of both, with disruption as his game to play, more to throw a wrench in init/counter init rather than actually having a clear role in where he goes. This is just a small handful of the guardians in the game, and there are some warriors who can also double as guardians to a mild degree.

I'm not saying you aren't right about there being bad guardians players out there, but also be aware that some people need time to learn a role. It sucks, but unless they are being overly toxic, give them some slack and try to enjoy the game as much as you can. I actually highly recommend playing a bit of each role, just to kind of get used to kits so you know where your team is at mentally, as well as knowing something about a god you are facing in a team fight. These aren't necessary, but it'll make you a better player overall.

[Mister Sir]

Publicado originalmente por Tytos:

Publicado originalmente por Vicious:

Some dmg is fine, I always get item or two for that. The main issue here is people not understanding guardians role.

Neither do you, a guardian is not a tank, he can be played tanky but must not be, like any other class. Some guardians are awesome solos or junglers, imagine if they built full tank.
I guess you mistook guardian with support.

This can be said about anything. Sure a guardian can be used as a jungler or whatever you want with right builds but you are simply taking what I said and twisting a situation in the way it shows me wrong, even thought I know thats not your intention.

If you wanna go jungle as guardian thats all cool by you, but then come back here and tell me how many times it leaves your team without a support. This is really about picking the best optimal role for your team and here I am ready to bet that you will be far more valuable and less rage inducing if you actually play as a tank.

Also I will mention that when a guardian starts a game and tells us right away that he wants to be a dmg dealer, there is not expectations being made. I am talking about guardians that actually try to tank but do it so poorly that it's nearly useless. So you simply misunderstood what I was saying.

[RecalledDread]

Publicado originalmente por Vicious:

Publicado originalmente por Tytos:

Neither do you, a guardian is not a tank, he can be played tanky but must not be, like any other class. Some guardians are awesome solos or junglers, imagine if they built full tank.
I guess you mistook guardian with support.

This can be said about anything. Sure a guardian can be used as a jungler or whatever you want with right builds but you are simply taking what I said and twisting a situation in the way it shows me wrong, even thought I know thats not your intention.

If you wanna go jungle as guardian thats all cool by you, but then come back here and tell me how many times it leaves your team without a support. This is really about picking the best optimal role for your team and here I am ready to bet that you will be far more valuable and less rage inducing if you actually play as a tank.

Also I will mention that when a guardian starts a game and tells us right away that he wants to be a dmg dealer, there is not expectations being made. I am talking about guardians that actually try to tank but do it so poorly that it's nearly useless. So you simply misunderstood what I was saying.

Usually not very often. In that composition, you still tend to have a tanky support - warrior + magical ADC, or normal composition with guardian and hunter - and then a damaging solo laner - mages, assassins, and hunters depending on the team composition so far. You might even get games with 3 front liners (Warrior solo, guardian jungle, guardian support), with one of them going damage (jungler).

What you should have said in your OP was; Supports, not guardians. I get that guardians tend to be the support role, but as has been pointed out, they can go pretty much anywhere (I've seen a pretty decent Sylvanus ADC before), and you seemed to be talking more specifically about the support-guardian role.

[BigBeardThoRN]

should have been in my last match of clash we all went guardian and completly wiped the normal type of compesition early till end game they had no chance

[I Can Imagine Anything]

Guaridans are not always support. In fact, a certain mountain crushing guardian makes for one of the best junglers out there. Speaking in terms of conquest, they usually are support, but not always. Even then, they shouldn't be damage sponges, a guardian's main role is to ♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥ up. They're meant to disrupt and ruin the enemy and make them easy pickings for your team. This is why a guardian's main selling point is their CC, not because they have a lot of health and defense.
In the fun game modes guardians get to be a lot more flexible, which is why I usually don't touch conquest. However, even in conquest, support guardians can be a LOT more varied than people make them out to be, and they can be junglers and solo laners as well.

[Eggroyals]

Publicado originalmente por Tytos:

Publicado originalmente por Ju55i.K:

My Khepri:

Shoes of Focus
Hide of the Urchin
Soul Reaver
Witchblade
Bulwark of Hope
Gem of Isolation

Sanctuary
Meditation


I use 1 to pull a single enemy away from safe areas for our other players to kill, or if it's chasing a low health teammate I pull it away

I use 2 and 3 for helping in a fight

I try to use 4 right when teammate is about to die. Sometimes I'm too slow, sometimes teammate lives longer than expected.

I also try to take most of the damage, and let teammates get the bad guy.

EDIT: If I'm using him wrong, please understand that I'm new to Khepri. I have ~70 worshippers at the moment.

There is no wrong way of using a god, some people try to copy&paste builds of pros and because of that they suck balls, you gotta build what YOU are most comfortable with, not other people.

As a support main, seeing people build this kind of items on a support makes me cringe.

Hide of urchin- I highly recommend against building this on guardians. In the early stages of the game when you're building this, magical protections (I assume their adc is physical) has no real value and is wasted. It makes it so that the enemy support does less damage to you, but they don't do that much damage in the first place. Plus, the passive takes a while to stack

Soul reaver- Why third item? A guardian's role is to protect their teammates and set up kills with your cc. Plus, the 10% extra damage isn't that effective this early in the game. It gives you, at max, an extra 100 damage.

Witchblade- Witchblade is *NOT* a support item. It's a solo lane item (though it could be used on junglers and adc's). The attack speed is wasted because as a support, you're not going to use that much basics on the enemy. If you want to weaken the enemy adc, get midgardian mail.

Bulwark of hope- I hardly ever build bulwark on a guardian. I feel like it's more of a sololane/jungler item. But, I can see it work. I would recommend against it however

Typically, against a 3 phys and a 2 magical comp with 1 healer, I would build

Watcher's gift t1 boots, 5 hp and 3 mp
Shoes of focus
sovereignty
Pestilence
spirit robe
stone of gaia
Gem of isolation/soul reaver