The original MOBA (proto-moba?)

[AWOOGA]

I bought this game on CD Rom the year it was released. I absolutely loved it. This year I played DOTA 2 for the first time and it reminded me IMMEDIATELY of the way the multiplayer would play out in Sacrifice. Please allow me to explain...

A whole paper could probably be written comparing the mechanics of the two games, but for now here is a list comparing basic mechanics I perceive to be different but similar...

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MOBA - Creeps would never make progress without the players. By killing the creeps the player acquires more gold and experience thereby increasing their ability to influence the battle.
Sacrifice - There are limited number of souls in play in any game and players vie for control of them to turn the tide of battle. By acquiring more souls the player increases the number of monsters he can summon, and can summon more powerful monsters, thereby increasing their ability to influence the battle.

MOBA - Gold is an infinite resource allowing the player to become increasingly powerful.
Sacrifice - Mana is an infinitely regenerating resource, allowing the player to consistently influence the battle.

MOBA - Though the base game is simple, the wide variety of player characters allow for a large variety of strategies through different combinations of heroes.
Sacrifice - Though the base game is simple, the wide variety of combinations of summoning monsters and spells allow for a large variety of strategies through different combinations of heroes.

MOBA - Towers provide aggressive support from mobs of creeps and powerful enemy heroes.
Sacrifice - Manaliths provide the summoner with significantly increased mana regeneration which can turn the tide against mobs of monsters and powerful enemy summoners.

MOBA - Purchases from the shop can be made from the field and delivered by couriers.
Sacrifice - Souls can be converted at the altar but must be delivered from the field by Sac Doctors.

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If you have anything to add please feel free to chime in. Do you agree with my observations?

[🍣]

My husband and I both agree

[Raz//RIP Kentaro Miura]

The whole comparision falls already flat at the basic premise of a moba(or to get a similar timeframe,AoS).
The point of AoS and all its incarnations always was to only control a hero unit while the AI handles the supporting army,something that sacrifice most certainly doesnt.

Also AoS might or might not already have been around when Sacrifice was released back in 2000.

That aside...yeah I dont really know what to make of this...you made a bunch of observations that dont really add up well in my opinion.Its all a bit far fetched.

[Sgt. Derpo]

Same thing came across my mind when i saw the multiplayer.

[🍣]

Given I was heavily involved in Starcraft's custom maps at the time of Sacrifice's release I can varify Aeon of Strife was not yet being played.

Also, Raz, I think you're taking it a little too literally. Genre's do not have finite borders. What it really comes down to is the over-all "feel". And if you ever spent any ammount of time playing Sacrifice in multiplayer, and any MOBA, well, the similarities are deffinitely there.

Whether Sacrifice inspired the idea, or both are just isolated tangents off traditional RTS... well, who knows.

[Weirdthing]

Yeah, um, sacrifice plays nothing like dota/has practically no similarities. You push 1 of 3 lanes to a bunch of towers to destroy them, then ultimately the enemy's main building to win. That's pretty much nothing like sacrifice. Personally I wouldnt mind a sequel taking some inspiration from a dota-like/moba though.

[luckz]

Originally posted by Weirdthing:

Personally I wouldnt mind a sequel taking some inspiration from a dota-like/moba though.

There's more than enough of those?
If you want third person League of Legends, play Smite.

[SamsWrath]

Not all MOBA limit control to 1 unit. There are a few champs in HoN that spawn multiple units you can control/micro. I agree that Sacrifice has the feel of a MOBA. Let's remember what MOBA stands for--Multiplayer Online Battle Area. I'd say Sacrifice qualifies in that sense. In my review I compared Sacrifice to a MOBA--Smite to be exact. Abraxis had it right when he said, "Genre's do not have finite borders" (sic). If they did we'd never see new innovation in established genres.

[AWOOGA]

I'm really happy with the discussion going on in this thread. I'm a bit tired right now but its a good read. I'll go over it again later and post something more constructive, but for now thanks to everyone for their input! Very stimulating!

[Scaff]

Didn't this game use an ELO system years ago... what was it like? Were there many players fighting for high ranks?

[Master]

I agree.

[76561198083547334]

just seen this and..
technically in sac you got your wiz you position around with on a flat map surface, in which there are holes so they limit the way you can position just like how walls would do in mobas.
other than that wizards do have powerful abilities/spells, but they can in no way kill one another because spells got huge cooldowns and are quite hard to pull off if your opponent is expecting them.
so creatures are what drive sac, converting your souls into units which deliver damage in either close or ranged form, some attack more frequently some attack less frequently and depending on the balance some of them tend to miss more often some of them just not as much.

then, there is the teleport abiltiy which allows wizards to teleport to structures they have, just like how wards work in mobas. (smite for that matter)
but in sac you teleport your army with yourself, and that creats a whole lot of difference.

technically no matter how powerful army you have, an army by itself can almost never compare to another army as long its supported by an enemy wizard.
hence, creatures only serve as tools to take structures, overcome other armies if supported, or the biggest and most interesting aspect of sac, to raid structures and creature pressure on the enemy and control his wizard's and army's positioning.

To put it simple, imagine that there's a flat s-shape map, on each end is an altar.
At the altars spawn the wizards, they must position to each other's altars to cast the desecreation spell and begin the ritual to finish the game.
But to kill another wizard and in general to do anything you need mana, which is how manaliths come into the picture.
So you add a certain number of manafountains on to the map, now player still behave as before, they travel towards one another's altars to commence the ritual, however no matter how much mana they can still not kill each other's wizards, hence the game cannot really end.

But if you bring creatures into the picture, you can both bring down manalithes, and kill wizards.
Some gods got more powerful creatures, as for example pyro's pyromanics do an insane amount of ranged damage in very short period of time, while stratos's storm giants can 1-2 hit a pyromanics, but if hit by them as they try to close in the gap between each other, stratos's storm giant will most likely die before it can reach the pyromaniac.
Now take 5more of each creature, and you can see, how the game shifts in an instant.
There's a great chance that 5 pyromanics will automatically attack the first storm giant that enters their attack range, which inevitably ends them up wasting their attacks, and the storm giants can reach them and kill them possibly.

However, player skill can shift all this, by controling when one attacks, and in what fashion.
SAc's creators were really smart when they added the Advance option.
Thanks to that one can almost perfectly specify how creatures should attack, but it creates a disadvantage, which is that creatures will naturally try to purge through the enemy lines one by one, rather than attacking randomly.
But one can simply select and order creatures separately, though creatures have a tendency of being confused when ordered. Ignoring commands. So finding the right balance in how to use these two commands is important.

Now back to the fundamentals.

Technically there's no initial balance to sac, depending on level, player skill, map settings, the balance shifts to certain god's favor.
Gods like perspehone can turn really powerful if just for 2-4 extra souls.
Whiel gods like stratos dont really benefit from too many souls at all.
Around 4-6 levels.
However above level 7-9 it changes, weak gods almost in all cases turn superior to the previously powerful gods.

In short, sac is full of amazing things.
I can understand where one finds the relation between a game like sac and mobas.
But mobas come nowhere near to sac. And proly never will.
Hope we dont have to see this game completely disappear, it would be a waste.