Invest points in "steal" is worthless?

[Karosu-Maker]

I wanted to make a sneaky sniper thief.

I have 92% in steal and I don't see the difference from when I started to now, the failing success ratio for stealing is the same, I get caught 4 of 5 tries, and that is trying to steal just one thing, steal a second is near to impossible.

I'm regreting investing in this skill at the point I almost want to start the game all over again and ignore steal since I don't notice any difference.

ST-05
PE-10
EN-02
CH-01
IN-08
AG-10
LK-04

Is there a bug with the steal skill I'm not aware of?
Is it affected by any of my S.P.E.C.I.A.L. points like luck?

Thanks in advance =D!

[jules]

Well, besides the fact that there is always a five percent chance to get caught there are other factors to stealing successfully. Also the percentage doesn't really mean that your sneaking will be successful 92 percent of the time. You could have a 150 percent in steal and still have failures. Stealing larger items in the game is always going to less successful than stealing a few caps. Everything is affected by Luck by a little bit. What I would say to do is to sneak at night because NPCs perception is lowered making it easier to steal.

[Karosu-Maker]

Originally posted by Cortigo:

Well, besides the fact that there is always a five percent chance to get caught there are other factors to stealing successfully. Also the percentage doesn't really mean that your sneaking will be successful 92 percent of the time. You could have a 150 percent in steal and still have failures. Stealing larger items in the game is always going to less successful than stealing a few caps. Everything is affected by Luck by a little bit. What I would say to do is to sneak at night because NPCs perception is lowered making it easier to steal.

So if I lower the preception of my target that improve the chances of a successful stealing?
I guess getting the NPC drunk would have a similar effect, right?

[jules]

Originally posted by Karosu-Maker:

Originally posted by Cortigo:

Well, besides the fact that there is always a five percent chance to get caught there are other factors to stealing successfully. Also the percentage doesn't really mean that your sneaking will be successful 92 percent of the time. You could have a 150 percent in steal and still have failures. Stealing larger items in the game is always going to less successful than stealing a few caps. Everything is affected by Luck by a little bit. What I would say to do is to sneak at night because NPCs perception is lowered making it easier to steal.

So if I lower the preception of my target that improve the chances of a successful stealing?
I guess getting the NPC drunk would have a similar effect, right?

Theoretically that could be an alternative.

[Karosu-Maker]

Ok I'll try those options.
Thanks!

[Digger]

You have to use your sneak skill at the same time as steal and stand behind the target to get the max effect.

[Včelí medvídek]

Probably bad luck (or too small set of rng to say something real:-) a bit as you should see "some" difference..

But steal 92% is quite low tbh.

You need roll against target where is several variables in formula - target steal skill, perception of people that can see you, big penalty if you try steal face-to-face and penalty by size and weight of object. (so btw you can actually raise your chances by stealing from behind or by use alcohol on target to lower his perception - this btw works for his reaction range too - like cabinets he guards or if he involve to combat. Just dont expect it to be gamebreaking as other variables still remain)

So it can be easily something about 60% you roll against (just wild tip/example.. can be different) so you chances are only about 30% in such case and your skill.


Other than that - I know steal is good source of many things including eg. valuable/early weapons - but I personally never use it.. evne if your skill will be high (120+) it is still unnecessary savescumming:-) Even with minimal barter (main is 16% in current playthrough so I have Idea:-) there is no shortage of money - there is plenty random encounters with various bandits etc. that net you so much weapons you will have issue to bear it all more to sell for something usable (eg. between Den and Vault city is lot of groups of raiders and highwaymens that have even hunting rifles, smg and shotguns on them - and you can often encounter them while fighting against each other or caravan.. or slavers.. I would rather spend time in those raider hunting than reloading for fail pickpocketing:p

[Castle Bravo]

Even at night, from behind, while sneaking, and after feeding nine beers to my target to lower their perception, not even 300% sneak/steal (I used a save editor) was enough to steal reliably, and if you are going to save scum it anyway if/when you turn people hostile, there is no need to invest any skill points at all; just keep trying until you succeed.

[Digger]

Nah, don't savescum. When they go hostile back off (hopefully behind them) leaving 1 ap to end combat, enough sneak skil and it will end if your companions haven't engaged in combat yet.

edit: who is your target that has super perception? perhaps barter for whatever is heavy with chems, then steal the chems.

[Castle Bravo]

Originally posted by Digger:

edit: who is your target that has super perception? perhaps barter for whatever is heavy with chems, then steal the chems.

No one in particular, I was just testing to see what it would require to make stealing reliable. Even planting/stealing broc flowers on the geckos in Arroyo would fail maybe ~20% of the time regardless of how high I pumped up the skills.

[Digger]

Maybe you don't have to pump it up that high then, 150+ sneak and 100+ steal is usually plenty for me. But I think if they are enemies there is a penalty to steal, vs. friendlies.

[Včelí medvídek]

Formula should be this:
function is_steal_success(thief, mark, item)
{
chance_mod = 1 - steal_counter
if (!has_pickpocket_perk(thief))
{
chance_mod -= 4 * item_size(item)
if (is_standing_in_front(thief, mark)
chance_mod -= 25
}
if (unknown_8bit_property_of(mark) & 3) // couldn't deduce this condition yet
chance_mod += 20
success_chance = steal_skill(thief) + chance_mod
if (success_chance > 95)
success_chance = 95
if (thief == player && is_party_member(mark))
roll_result = CRITICAL_SUCCESS
else
roll_result = roll_vs_skill(success_chance, stat_critical_chance(thief))

if (roll_result == CRITICAL_SUCCESS)
return true
if (roll_result != FAIL)
{
if (is_critter(mark))
catch_chance = steal_skill(mark)
else
catch_chance = 30 - chance_mod
mark_roll_result = roll_vs_skill(catch_chance, 0)
}
else
{
mark_roll_result = SUCCESS
}
if (is_success(mark_roll_result))
return false
else
return true
}

steal_counter is number of steals during same attempt

So it seems that penalties are only for steal from front of victim and size of item and number of tries in attempt and friend/foe does not matter at all.

[Digger]

Hehe, now there's an expert, it pays to learn to code :) Stealing is easy with high sneak, if steal fails walk away. Try again another day.

[Disgruntled Cuttlefish]

Stop planting flowers on the poor geckos.

Everybody leave all the geckos...alone.

[Castle Bravo]

Originally posted by Squid:

Stop planting flowers on the poor geckos.

Everybody leave all the geckos...alone.

Alright, fine, no need to nag me about it! I guess I'll just go back to shooting Sulik a bunch of times.

[EolSunder]

so based on that formula if correct, there are NO subroutines or checks for your stealth skill, or time of day, so nighttime, high stealth, etc has no effect on stealing what so ever. Only the 2 factors of steal_success chance then the catch_chance are factored in. Since success_chance is capped at 95, there isn't really any reason to have stealing at a very high level (200-300) because those extra skill don't get counted. Probably 150 stealing would keep your success_chance at 95 even if trying to steal heavy armor/weapons, and since most people save-scum heavy stuff and only use multi-steals for experience gain you could keep close to the 95% max even if stealing from the front with about 130 stealing tops.