Hydrogen fuel?

[Keneda]

maybe i didn't got it right , but whats the point of having hydrogen fuel since we need in the first place a normal fuel pack in order to make the hydrogen generator work....

[vinbobo]

Its a by-product when you make water so you are getting it for free. After all you need water for your farm/food/medicines

[gon]

i think its silly that you cant use the hydrogen fuel packs to power the ground generators or make ammo for tools/weapons with it. it got its use tho, both bases and crafts can use them.

[Dzikus1r]

you also get more hydrogen fuel packs per prometheum used to power the h2o2generator, I put one fuel pack in and got like 9 hydrogen bottles = 9 fuel packs for the price of 1, which you can use to power base generators and small vessels. you'll also get oxy in equal amount.

[Reinfire]

A real enhancement would be for it to be solar powered, and not required to sit in water. Then it could be used to generate power and oxygen for space stations without having to go to the planet all the time to mine and get oxygen. Its fine if it were to allow purified water bottles in order to work, cause it doesn't make sense without some water, but we don't currently have a way of generating power or oxygen in space....unless I missed something.

[Ryce]

I don't see any value in H2 based fuel currently - in fact it seems to be worse than prometheum.

In my test I put 1 prom. fuel pack (fuel rating 30) in an O2 generator, and 1 prom. fuel pack (fuel rating 30) in the new H2O2 generator. The O2 generator created 2 bottles of O2, while the H2O2 generator created 1 bottle of O2 and 1 bottle of H2.

The H2 I then converted into 2 Hydrogen Fuel cells each with a fuel rating of 15.

This means the H2 created exactly the same amount of Hydrogen based power as the Promethium based power used to create them. (This ignores that I USED additional energy to turn the H2 into fuel cells of course.)

Even if something went wrong with my test and I should have gotten more H2 (I'll try again tonight) - there is still a major problem with H2 based fuel that makes is worse than promethium in my mind:

Because the fuel cells have 1/2 the fuel rating, and they don't stack when used in a machine, I'm going to have 1/2 the amount of power in my fuel tanks than I would have had in there with promethium. Thus, I'm going to have to run around to refill everything and do 'power management' twice as fast / as often. No thank you.

ALSO:
- This is NOT renewable ... it all still requires promethium which can be depleted.

We need a solar or wind based option that makes power management less of a time sync / grind.

[ArnMan]

Originally posted by Ryce:

I don't see any value in H2 based fuel currently - in fact it seems to be worse than prometheum.

In my test I put 1 prom. fuel pack (fuel rating 30) in an O2 generator, and 1 prom. fuel pack (fuel rating 30) in the new H2O2 generator. The O2 generator created 2 bottles of O2, while the H2O2 generator created 1 bottle of O2 and 1 bottle of H2.

The H2 I then converted into 2 Hydrogen Fuel cells each with a fuel rating of 15.

This means the H2 created exactly the same amount of Hydrogen based power as the Promethium based power used to create them. (This ignores that I USED additional energy to turn the H2 into fuel cells of course.)

Even if something went wrong with my test and I should have gotten more H2 (I'll try again tonight) - there is still a major problem with H2 based fuel that makes is worse than promethium in my mind:

Because the fuel cells have 1/2 the fuel rating, and they don't stack when used in a machine, I'm going to have 1/2 the amount of power in my fuel tanks than I would have had in there with promethium. Thus, I'm going to have to run around to refill everything and do 'power management' twice as fast / as often. No thank you.

ALSO:
- This is NOT renewable ... it all still requires promethium which can be depleted.

We need a solar or wind based option that makes power management less of a time sync / grind.

You did make a mistake. 1 fuel cell of 30 energy nets 7 H2 which becomes 14 H2 fuel cells of 15 energy each. 30 energy in creates 210 energy out. It is a massive increase. It is not meant to be perpetual energy. It is meant to be an alternate energy and lessens the need to mine promethium but not eliminate the need for promethium. According to the response of the game team it is working as intended.

[DougFTW]

Even if that's the case @ArnMan I think @Ryce nails the biggest problem right here:

Originally posted by Ryce:

Because the fuel cells have 1/2 the fuel rating, and they don't stack when used in a machine, I'm going to have 1/2 the amount of power in my fuel tanks than I would have had in there with promethium. Thus, I'm going to have to run around to refill everything and do 'power management' twice as fast / as often. No thank you.

Who else remembers a certain star wars MMORPG that turned into no fun at all once the game came down to hours of resource management vs. actual game play?

[Sapper Woody]

Originally posted by Rounder:

Even if that's the case @ArnMan I think @Ryce nails the biggest problem right here:

Originally posted by Ryce:

Because the fuel cells have 1/2 the fuel rating, and they don't stack when used in a machine, I'm going to have 1/2 the amount of power in my fuel tanks than I would have had in there with promethium. Thus, I'm going to have to run around to refill everything and do 'power management' twice as fast / as often. No thank you.

Who else remembers a certain star wars MMORPG that turned into no fun at all once the game came down to hours of resource management vs. actual game play?

You have to remember, though, that until the patch, the original fuel cell only had 20 units of energy. So, 15 units of energy versus the old 20 units of evergy is only 125% more refueling time than the old system, with a semi-renewable source.

[DougFTW]

Originally posted by Sapper Woody:

You have to remember, though, that until the patch, the original fuel cell only had 20 units of energy. So, 15 units of energy versus the old 20 units of evergy is only 125% more refueling time than the old system, with a semi-renewable source.

yeah.. but... still TWICE as much as the CURRENT ALTERNATIVE.
That stinks.

[6000 Chipmunks]

Originally posted by Ryce:

ALSO:
- This is NOT renewable ... it all still requires promethium which can be depleted.

I agreed with your entire post, but this part is what I don't like about the new Hydrogen system.

A renewable source...like trees for instance, give you more back than what you put in. These new cells were touted as renewable...but they are most decidedly NOT. If you could use these almost worthless power-cells to generate MORE Hydrogen than you use to make it...than it WOULD be "renewable".

...AND, I would love them. Using them would require extra effort on my part, so Promethium would still be desired, but not entirely. IMHO, every game that allows and or requires unlimited exploration and creation, NEEDS something at the bottom of the food chain that allows for contiued play. Running out of resources is a game killer, and ultimately leads to a NON-starter, as your artifically limited from day one. *See original Age of Empires.

[Sapper Woody]

Originally posted by Rounder:

Originally posted by Sapper Woody:

]
You have to remember, though, that until the patch, the original fuel cell only had 20 units of energy. So, 15 units of energy versus the old 20 units of evergy is only 125% more refueling time than the old system, with a semi-renewable source.

yeah.. but... still TWICE as much as the CURRENT ALTERNATIVE.
That stinks.

Even so, I put enough fuel tanks on my SVs to last over 3 hours in Atmo. So, now, with H2, they'll last a little more than 2. Refueling is as simple as "t, shift+click, t" per each fuel tank. Since i have 4-6 (depending on fuel usage), that's about 10-15 seconds every 2-3 hours. I'm ok with that. In my base and CV, it's even more time (~12 hours). So, 200% of a few seconds per hour is still only a few more seconds per hour.

[ArnMan]

Originally posted by Sapper Woody:

Originally posted by Rounder:

yeah.. but... still TWICE as much as the CURRENT ALTERNATIVE.
That stinks.

Even so, I put enough fuel tanks on my SVs to last over 3 hours in Atmo. So, now, with H2, they'll last a little more than 2. Refueling is as simple as "t, shift+click, t" per each fuel tank. Since i have 4-6 (depending on fuel usage), that's about 10-15 seconds every 2-3 hours. I'm ok with that. In my base and CV, it's even more time (~12 hours). So, 200% of a few seconds per hour is still only a few more seconds per hour.

Eactly! If you used to have 4 fuel tanks, add a 5th and it is the same effort. I now have 4 large fuel tanks in my base to take advantage of the H2 fuel cells and it is taking less effort for me than before the 3.6 patch. I refuel my base less often and I mine promethium way less often. I used to go on promethium grinds to store up a few stacks of 1,000 fuel cells and now I just store a stack and monitor the 4 H2O2 generators that I built. Fuel is much less of an issue now.

[DougFTW]

I get it but, I would rather they build the "grind inefficiency" into the game in other ways.

For example - everyone is begging for solar.
Ok great - how about a solar panel that when used on a generator takes up all fuel slots.
It never runs out, produces equivalent power level fuel packs... but slows production.

Then it's just a matter of "saving up" to afford a few extra generators & solar panels until you're back in business with something that is truly renewable.

If my character can travel the solar system and build a space ship... I gotta think he'd be able to figure out solar.

[Muffinman]

It's premature to complain about hydrogen as a fuel source. The 6x power over direct use of promethium is already a nice bonus. I have no doubt they will add a recipe for "Large Hydrogen Fuel Pack" or something similar to to increase the energy density of Hydrogen Fuel Pack, no doubt needing 3-4x more hydrogen bottles for each crafting. I also have no doubt they will add an even more densed energy source made from either hydrogen or promethium for refuling CVs. It's a matter of time.

As for the "renewable" in the hydrogen fuel, it simply means that it can be harvested ad infinitum from any water source. If you couple an energy harvesting array, solar, wind, what have you, then you have a "renewable" way of making power. Granted, the current way of making hydrogen fuel pack is only temporary and at least a first iteration. There is probably other more conventional and permanent methods of harvesting energy that is not yet implemented, i.e. fusion, geothermal.

If you want even more Si-Fi, the antimatter/matter reaction, which is not even that far fetched given that the ship that you "traveled" in used a "quantum drive," whatever that is. While we're at it, given that we will eventually get procedurally generated systems to "explore," there is even the remote possibility of mining the stars' corona for hydrogen or building a station near a blackhole to take advantage of the intense magnetic field given off by the mass spiralling inward from the accretion disk to generate energy.

If none of the above is added by the devs, I'm sure somebody will mod something in. =)

[BuzzMonolith]

Or go and shoot some golems, they drop promethium and respawn. Plus another big help is that only the bases and vehicles on the planet you visit need energy. All bases and vehicles on other planets are frozen until you return to the planet.

Originally posted by Sapper Woody:

Even so, I put enough fuel tanks on my SVs to last over 3 hours in Atmo. So, now, with H2, they'll last a little more than 2. Refueling is as simple as "t, shift+click, t" per each fuel tank. Since i have 4-6 (depending on fuel usage), that's about 10-15 seconds every 2-3 hours. I'm ok with that. In my base and CV, it's even more time (~12 hours). So, 200% of a few seconds per hour is still only a few more seconds per hour.

Never heard of anybody who walks/cycles or drives by public transportation because they are to lazy to stop by a gasstation .