Green integrity but base keeps falling apart?

[GoldMiner177]

So I havent touched this game in 2 years and coming back to it. But I remember making a sky base (just a base on legs) and it was just fine. But trying it now and it fails?

Pressing "n" I got into the building menu and activated the Building integrity. Watching it closely everything is green (even turning it on and off to see if it needed to update) building up until a certain point, which then everything turns red, fails, and falls apart but only when I try to build the house structure.

Again I'm watching it, studding it, looking out for any parts that are in the red, but non are
My base layout is a 9x9 with legs from corners, centre, and in between corners made of concrete and a 7x7x3 steel structure ontop of that

I tried to make a visual here:
X---X---X
----------
----------
----------
X---X---X
----------
----------
----------
X---X---X

obviously i'm doing it wrong and want to learn how this mechanic works
Any help would be great

[Jalore]

try some rafter beams, from support beam to support column or wall, might help distribute the load for when a block gets damaged or removed. Si rules really are not clear, nor been properly explained.

one thing i do know you need a proper foundation that is as flat and as deep as possible and if have to add pillars to the foundation to reach deeper into the ground.

it does hate open spaces and takes a pillar to support 9 around it properly sometimes 16... i've done flying buttresses with minor success and support skeleton framework on the outside walls and ceiling.

[cwsumner]

I'm not sure, but they do seem to be trying to sim the real world, So:

The concrete is strong in compression but weak in tension, i.e., press down on it and it is good but pull it apart and it is not good.

Best to put the steel under, so it is over the open parts, and the concrete for the solid parts.

I think you are describing this (from the side):
XXXXXXXXX
CCCCCCCCC
C===C===C

Try this:
CCCCCCCCC
CXXXCXXXC
C===C===C

C concrete, X steel, = open space

And, as said, there are block shapes to turn the open areas into more like an arch. That helps.

Also don't just look for red. I have noticed that stressed parts seem to have their color a bit "faded". That might be ok, or maybe not...

[VulcanTourist]

The material type of the blocks DOES NOT MATTER. All that matters is that:

• support is granted by anchoring a block in terrain, and anything directly above that block is fully supported, with diminishing integrity for every block further that radiates horizontally from that supporting block/column, until at x(?) number of blocks away from that support the integrity fails and parts of the structure will RANDOMLY fall off, not necessarily in a logical fashion.

That's it, period, done. There is no consideration of diagonal support, no consideration of material types, nothing. It ONLY applies to static structures, never ships of any kind. This "integrity" is ONLY calculated by the engine when a block is added or removed, so as long as a structure remains unmodified its last calculated integrity state is still in effect.

That said, in spite of its simplicity the engine can and does miscalculate integrity, infrequently but often enough to drive an observant person batty. The in-game "structural integrity" is not a reliable sim of structural physics, never has been, and likely never will be as the developers have ignored it. It doesn't even reliably follow its own rules. The best course of action if you desire predictable physics is to disable it via console command at the start of every game session, and then design and play as if it was still enabled and worked as intended.

Let the misinformation now continue.

[cwsumner]

Well, I -did- say that I was not sure... ;-)

I guess that means put in more supports and forget the rest?

[VulcanTourist]

Originally posted by cwsumner:

I guess that means put in more supports and forget the rest?

I can't now recall the horizontal unsupported block limit, but the numbers 5 and 12 seem familiar for some reason, meaning that you need that terrain-anchored vertical support at least every 12 blocks, and perhaps every five. I've been disabling SI for years now, but I stick to a rule of support every five blocks.

[GoldMiner177]

Originally posted by VulcanTourist:

The material type of the blocks DOES NOT MATTER. All that matters is that:

• support is granted by anchoring a block in terrain, and anything directly above that block is fully supported, with diminishing integrity for every block further that radiates horizontally from that supporting block/column, until at x(?) number of blocks away from that support the integrity fails and parts of the structure will RANDOMLY fall off, not necessarily in a logical fashion.

That's it, period, done. There is no consideration of diagonal support, no consideration of material types, nothing. It ONLY applies to static structures, never ships of any kind. This "integrity" is ONLY calculated by the engine when a block is added or removed, so as long as a structure remains unmodified its last calculated integrity state is still in effect.

That said, in spite of its simplicity the engine can and does miscalculate integrity, infrequently but often enough to drive an observant person batty. The in-game "structural integrity" is not a reliable sim of structural physics, never has been, and likely never will be as the developers have ignored it. It doesn't even reliably follow its own rules. The best course of action if you desire predictable physics is to disable it via console command at the start of every game session, and then design and play as if it was still enabled and worked as intended.

Let the misinformation now continue.

This does make sense however one issue I can tell right now about what you said is, when I go more vertical, it fails. Like what you said, it could be a mas miscalculation and yes its driving me batty

I'm just going to disable SI until they fix it (if they ever do) lmao
I want my base on legs

[VulcanTourist]

Originally posted by GoldMiner177:

This does make sense however one issue I can tell right now about what you said is, when I go more vertical, it fails.

No, vertical support does not fail. That is the one thing that doesn't. I've built a space elevator. If you can't build vertically, then you're making a mistake.

[GoldMiner177]

So to rap things up, I was building in the Talon territory
As soon as i built outside of it, the base was completely fine, materials dont matter

Thanks for all that commented!

[VulcanTourist]

Originally posted by GoldMiner177:

So to rap things up, I was building in the Talon territory
As soon as i built outside of it, the base was completely fine, materials dont matter

Building in a faction's territory CANNOT affect structural integrity, at least not directly. IF YOU WERE HOSTILE with them, however, that would matter: they may have been attacking and damaging the structure, even aside from an explicit base attack, and if that resulted in destruction of a block then integrity would be affected and could cause collapse. And if you weren't friendly with the faction BEFORE you began building (or spawning), then creating a structure in the faction's territory harms your reputation with them continuously, with the guaranteed consequence of becoming fully hostile unless you take action.

There is no other factor relative to faction territories that could affect structural integrity.

[zaphodikus]

S.I. gets calculated as far I experimented based on gravity and can be an overhang of anything from 5 to probably 14 blocks , however typically I have used 8 as a guide. On a high G world it's 5. But yes structure failure only gets calculated when the structure is modified. Even a deco block like a pot plant will support all the blocks above it, so cheat and use thin pillar blocks or windows when you want to make something look flimsy.

[VulcanTourist]

Originally posted by zaphodikus:

S.I. gets calculated as far I experimented based on gravity and can be an overhang of anything from 5 to probably 14 blocks , however typically I have used 8 as a guide. On a high G world it's 5. But yes structure failure only gets calculated when the structure is modified. Even a deco block like a pot plant will support all the blocks above it, so cheat and use thin pillar blocks or windows when you want to make something look flimsy.

An enemy destroying a block counts as modification that would force that SI recalculation.

[Yascherrica]

Can't say for vanilla but in RE block material/type does influence the SI. If I see gaps start to 'blush' I upgrade them from steel to combat steel and they become less red.

[VulcanTourist]

Originally posted by Yascherrica:

Can't say for vanilla but in RE block material/type does influence the SI. If I see gaps start to 'blush' I upgrade them from steel to combat steel and they become less red.

You overlook the fact that whenever the Debug function is used it is not dynamic; the state represented by the coloration may already be outdated and you simply don't see that until you alter the structure and force a new recalculation. Your anecdote is not proof that material has an effect.

Obviously that function should have been dynamic, we intuitively expect it to be, but no.

[HurtfulPlayer97]

You mean you built something like this?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2925789868

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2925789858

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2925789852

This is with SI on. Height has no effect on SI.
Heck a friend of mine used to build these towers out of nothing
but Heavy Window blocks that might have been 3 times as high
as the one in my pictures. And that was on an MP server.

[Yuz]

Base supported by one dancing girl...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2780601605

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2780601582

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2780601623