Invaders vs Defenders?

[dragonbornzyra]

Is this a scenario? Is it Eleon created or a community created scenario? Is it a mod or does it come stock? I am confushus.

Someone please do me a learnin'.

[Es'carli]

I believe it was created by rexus originally. Its the scenario on the official US and eu server and is now maintained/updated by eleon

[dragonbornzyra]

Ah, thank you for the answer. Is it MP only? I play online SP and run a local co op whenever my faction buddy has time to play. So I'm not playing on a server, per say, would I still be able to access the scenario?

[Robert Locksley]

It's supposed to be a PVP/Co-op scenario in which player factions are pitted against one another across a wide galaxy populated by warring NPC factions. Working with friends and finding allies is highly recommended! I run my own server that's been going for some time, and players come and go but don't usually stay for long because it's not a loot-fest.

[Der Radiator]

Well, i started on the official server to give it a try. On the starter PVP planet you have people exploiting the Teleporter to get back and spam Turret towers on PoI's or if they find your Noob base, right beside it.
Or even more funny just fly around and gank. Its a ♥♥♥♥ mode & server and only like 20 ppl play it. Once you proceed off the starter, its just an exploit fest, like draining your base turrets with decoys then just loot it, tunnel and box-glitch it, drop a structure on you from altitude & offline protect it so you cant build or use your stuff for a few days, etc etc.
Go for a RE Server, its better in every aspect.

[Es'carli]

Originally posted by Der Radiator:

Well, i started on the official server to give it a try. On the starter PVP planet you have people exploiting the Teleporter to get back and spam Turret towers on PoI's or if they find your Noob base, right beside it.
Or even more funny just fly around and gank. Its a ♥♥♥♥ mode & server and only like 20 ppl play it. Once you proceed off the starter, its just an exploit fest, like draining your base turrets with decoys then just loot it, tunnel and box-glitch it, drop a structure on you from altitude & offline protect it so you cant build or use your stuff for a few days, etc etc.
Go for a RE Server, its better in every aspect.

As with every server there are rules. If you find any of the below being broken then you can report them to one of the moderators. Specifically look at Section B Sub 1.

Rule 1: be polite and respectful in global chat. Don't use bad (e.g.) vulgar words in your structures. Keep it English in global chat.

Rule 2:
Section A.
Legitimate PvP gameplay must grow the player base instead of shrinking it.
New players need every chance to learn and thrive in the environment without being "seal clubbed"
by more established and experienced players.
Anything beyond a small T1 or T2 Starter Ship or ships that are, or appear fully gunned are exempt from this protection.

Section B.
sub 1. No Ammo draining (such as using a drone to draw fine and deplete ammo from a player structure)
sub 2. No Offline Protection Abuse (Covered in rule 3),
sub 3. No Warp Camping (Attacking someone within 1km of a warp in point)
sub 4. No Impersonating another player or admin.
sub 5. No exploiting bugs.
sub 6. No behavior that harms server performance.

Section C.
Hearsay or conjecture in a complaint must not be admissible. Hard evidence (such as video) must exist for a complaint to be acted upon.

Rule 3: you are NOT allowed to have private structures with Offline Protection installed! Make sure to always set structures with a Offline Protection Device to faction. Breaking this rule will lead to the loss of your structure(s)!

Rule 4: You are NOT allowed to build / spawn / fly your structures Inside of asteroids or Inside POIs and park them there (within the bounding box).

Rule 5: DO NOT build proximity alert decoys only with Flares or other Devices, which have a bad render distance. Make sure to use regular blocks for them. DO NOT change the centre of your object by moving the core or other things away as well. The HUD marker needs to be directly bound to your object.

Rule 6: DO NOT place LandClaimDevices on a Base close to a POI so other players don't have access to this POI anymore.

Rule 7 Vessels (CV, SV, HV): Floating turrets, devices, blocks, or any combinations thereof are not permitted. All devices and blocks of a vessel must be attached one to the other.

Rule 8: NO bases are allowed to be build within 100 meters of a POI.

[dragonbornzyra]

Section B Sub1:

I can't use my drone to "drain" turret ammo? Oh really? How is this any different from being caught in a respawn deathloop, or simply trying to take out the structure so many times I die so many times /lose so many HV/SVs it runs out of ammo. What is the difference between me "exploiting" the respawn mechanic to run ammo out, vs me "using" the player drone to do the same thing.

Both are a huge time sink, requiring much time to be spent running out the ammo. I wanna understand how you draw the line at "Ammo Draining" with drone not allowed, but Ammo Draining with your body/vehicles are allowed.

Rule 7 Vessels: I dun understand how or why this is a rule, this prevents me from using my entire HIVE series of SV/HV/CVs to go with my HIVE bases, which are insect and colony themed vessels to go with the same themed base. I'm not aware how this can be some PvP exploit that, the other player can't also use.

The only issue I see with PvP are those that spawn camp starter planets and new players, rather then going out and establishing themselves and fighting amongst themselves and other experienced players.

Everything you guys ban I think should be allowed. Just NOT on the starter planet. Outside of Offline Protection abuse and exploiting bugs (Things that are defined as cheating and not just clever or witty thought out tactics) Everything else is a legit form of PvP.

All of these rules should be to prevent "seal clubbing" on a starter planet, but everywhere else, players should be allowed to build next to and abuse POIs how these wish. With upwards of 10,000 star systems I don't understand the need to protect a starter planets POIs. Unless Invaders vs Defenders has a much smaller galaxy map?

I don't understand the need for all players to start on the same planet either, for a server. This means you need regenerating POIs and deposits, and people end up exploiting this. A simple fix would be to spread starter planets out across the galaxy so players have to find and meet up to fight.

Sounds like a neat scenario it just seems like there aren't enough people playing it to justify spending time on it. Why are people so against any form of adversity? Oh noes my base got blowed up! Time to go screech on the forum! Not like I have a blueprint, or not like there's any truly unique resources in that building. Oh well guess I should have defended it better? Or got better?

I also don't wanna blow up someone else's ship in a 1 V 1 dogfight then have them blow up the global chat about how I'm picking on them or something. I dunno maybe it's just me, a player coming from Towers & Turret defense style games, where you must build your base, defend it, and use it to stage attacks against other bases, structures, and targets.

Coming from that environment (one where you had no offline protection and coming online to a destroyed base was a very real possibility and even the best most well defended bases could still be destroyed with enough attacks and persistance) to recent online games feels like going from Tackle Football to Touch Football.

Which is fine. Touch Football is still fun. I just wish there were enough players around to really start up a good Tackle Football game. But as I see it, there are grievers and newb killers there ruining this experience. I think strict admins and a better design beginning player experience would do well to fix this.

Make players below lvl20 unable to be attacked. Have a player require to update their own faction or "announce" via the I.G.N. or somthing they are up and running and ready to join a faction and fight. Or have starter planets spread out across the map so people are able to get established in peace.

Or have a server que up 2 to 3 teams of 2-4 players each, start them on the same planet, and them race to space to spread out and keep fighting. Prevent more people from crowding the starter planet, and structure the factions so everyone is on a team with fair footing.

People should not be playing PvP to grief new or inexperienced players (Inexperienced and new players also probably should not be playing PvP to begin with just like RE is for those that played Vanilla already, by Ravien's words)

I think people should be playing PvP to challenge themselves beyond what the AI can do and seek out and take head on other players to improve themselves and test their merit.

[Es'carli]

If you were on the Empyrion discord you'd know how those rules come about

[dragonbornzyra]

Originally posted by Es'carli:

If you were on the Empyrion discord you'd know how those rules come about

I'm not though. And I would be entirely willing to have that discussion, as it interests me and I think there's merit on both sides.

There are a few people that seem to be ruining the experience for many, and I feel like steps can be put into place to ensure a healthy PvP environment.

An example of anti-griefing measures in a different game, in War Commander, you could not attack the base of another player that was 5 levels below your level, or 5 levels over your level. You could only attack players within a 10 level median of your own.

Not perfect, but it kept lvl10 players from camping or stomping on players below lvl5. And it kept "bot" or "sock puppet" accounts from spamming attacks on you (lower levels can't hit players higher than 5 levels so no swarm of lvl5 accounts ganging up on a lvl25 for example)

I do not have Discord, but would look forward to this discussion and others in private if you didn't mind using Steam messages to talk about it, as I don't want to derail this thread.

I really want to strive to convey and express myself more precisely in the future. I feel I come across as closed minded and declarative in circumstances I'm curious and seeking a better understanding. I think it's the kind of questions I use to gather the info for me to form my own conclusions.

[Es'carli]

I would consider getting discord in all honesty. The reason being if there's a new rule added then that is where it's first posted. If people are having a discussion about what a rule should be like then that's where it's held. Not to mention you also get visibility of when events for the server will happen.

[dragonbornzyra]

I regret my own stubborness. Thank you for your patience Es'carli, really!