Recoil

[VulcanTourist]

If anyone has a dislike of recoil and plays solo or controls a personal server, it can be disabled, in whole or in part. I've done it, including the tools that originally had undocumented recoil until the previous patch. Is there enough interest to make the half hour required worth condensing the necessary changes?

[Slender]

I'd be interested in knowing how to at least reduce the recoil. Hopefully more will take interest, don't go out of your way just for me lol

[VulcanTourist]

I'm waiting for lunch to arrive, so perhaps I can remote connect and get started.

[Tarc Novar]

Originally posted by VulcanTourist:

If anyone has a dislike of recoil and plays solo or controls a personal server, it can be disabled, in whole or in part. I've done it, including the tools that originally had undocumented recoil until the previous patch. Is there enough interest to make the half hour required worth condensing the necessary changes?

I do.

[Slender]

Originally posted by VulcanTourist:

I'm waiting for lunch to arrive, so perhaps I can remote connect and get started.

No worries and thanks 🙂

[Tarc Novar]

Originally posted by VulcanTourist:

I'm waiting for lunch to arrive, so perhaps I can remote connect and get started.

I remotely connect to my PC every day from work. :-)

[Weekend Avenger]

I dislike recoil, but what I dislike is the implementation. Lasers should have zero recoil. Shotgun should have massive recoil. For other weapons the more "advanced" the weapon is, the less the recoil should affect it's next shot.

So short version, T1 shotgun should have a large recoil, but you should be able to get the weapon back on target in time to fire the next round. T2 and Elite should have less recoil for each advancement as well as higher ROF and damage. The more exotic weaponry like a "laser" rifle should be even more impressive in it's overall gain to DPS done to your opposition at a much longer distance than a shotgun can reach. The laser doesn't need to be the only good or even best option at 10 meters, but it does need to be the best "non splash damage" handheld weapon at 200 meters from a target.

This follows how real life weaponry works. Taking a famous weapon like the Russian AK-47 for example, it was eventually replaced by the more advanced AK-74 which is lighter and uses smaller ammunition. This advancement meant that a soldier equipped with the newer weapon could carry more ammo and still face less fatigue while "performing" as well from the military's point of view. This trend is even more apparent in NATO / US rifles where there is less concern over the cost of the weapons if there is a significant "performance" benefit.

[DarkFire]

Basically what Weekender Avenger said.

I'd be interested in knowing how to mod things like weapon recoil, rate of fire, damage fall-off etc.

[Tarc Novar]

Originally posted by Weekend Avenger:

I dislike recoil, but what I dislike is the implementation. Lasers should have zero recoil. Shotgun should have massive recoil. For other weapons the more "advanced" the weapon is, the less the recoil should affect it's next shot.

So short version, T1 shotgun should have a large recoil, but you should be able to get the weapon back on target in time to fire the next round. T2 and Elite should have less recoil for each advancement as well as higher ROF and damage. The more exotic weaponry like a "laser" rifle should be even more impressive in it's overall gain to DPS done to your opposition at a much longer distance than a shotgun can reach. The laser doesn't need to be the only good or even best option at 10 meters, but it does need to be the best "non splash damage" handheld weapon at 200 meters from a target.

This follows how real life weaponry works. Taking a famous weapon like the Russian AK-47 for example, it was eventually replaced by the more advanced AK-74 which is lighter and uses smaller ammunition. This advancement meant that a soldier equipped with the newer weapon could carry more ammo and still face less fatigue while "performing" as well from the military's point of view. This trend is even more apparent in NATO / US rifles where there is less concern over the cost of the weapons if there is a significant "performance" benefit.

I don't really want realism, because this is sci-fi. If and when I want realism, I will go play a flight simulator like X-Plane.

[VulcanTourist]

I trust you folks know what to do with this? The default values are in comments tabbed out to column 80; looks like crap in BBCode blocks but fine when cut-and-pasted. I left the empty zoom blocks in as placeholders; I'm unsure whether it's always safe to omit them, since the ordering of nested blocks matters. I also left in the descriptive properties for each radial menu mode of tools for reference; they can be removed or even commented-out at the start of the line.

{ Item Id: 2051, Name: Pistol
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.8, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2052, Name: Shotgun
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display:false													# 2.1, true
  } 
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2053, Name: Minigun
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.5, true
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2054, Name: PulseRifle
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.4, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2055, Name: Sniper
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 1.1, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2056, Name: Drill
  RadialMenu: true
  { 
    RadialText: rdlResourceMining
    RadialDesc: rdlResourceMiningManualTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_ResourceMining
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# ADDED
  }
  { 
    RadialText: rdlStoneRemoval
    RadialDesc: rdlStoneRemovalTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_StoneRemoval
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# ADDED
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2057, Name: Shotgun2
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 1.7, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2058, Name: RocketLauncher
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 2.4, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2059, Name: MultiTool
  RadialMenu: true
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.2, true
    RadialText: rdlDisassemble
    RadialDesc: rdlDisassembleTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_Disassemble
  }
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.2, true
    RadialText: rdlRepair
    RadialDesc: rdlRepairTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_Repair
  }
  { 
    RadialText: rdlChangeRotate
    RadialDesc: rdlChangeRotateTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_ChangeRotate
  }
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.2, true
    RadialText: rdlUpgrade
    RadialDesc: rdlUpgradeTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_Upgrade
  }
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.2, true
    RadialText: rdlDeconstruct
    RadialDesc: rdlDeconstructTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_Deconstruct
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2062, Name: LaserPistol
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.2, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2063, Name: AssaultRifle
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.6, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2064, Name: LaserRifle
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.3, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2065, Name: ScifiCannon
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 3.0, true
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2066, Name: Sniper2
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.9, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2067, Name: DrillT2
  RadialMenu: true
  { 
    RadialText: rdlResourceMining
    RadialDesc: rdlResourceMiningTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_ResourceMining
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# ADDED
  }
  { 
    RadialText: rdlFiller
    RadialDesc: rdlFillerTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_Filler
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# ADDED
  }
  { 
    RadialText: rdlFlattening
    RadialDesc: rdlFlatteningTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_Flattening
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# ADDED
  }
  { 
    RadialText: rdlStoneRemoval
    RadialDesc: rdlStoneRemovalTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_StoneRemoval
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# ADDED
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2068, Name: PistolT2, Ref: Pistol
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.5, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2071, Name: Chainsaw
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# ADDED
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2072, Name: AssaultRifleEpic, Ref: AssaultRifle
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.4, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2073, Name: Sniper2Epic, Ref: Sniper2
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.7, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2074, Name: MinigunEpic, Ref: Minigun
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.3, true
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2075, Name: Shotgun2Epic, Ref: Shotgun2
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 1.5, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2076, Name: LaserRifleEpic, Ref: LaserRifle
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.25, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2077, Name: ScifiCannonEpic, Ref: ScifiCannon
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 1.5, true
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2078, Name: PistolEpic, Ref: Pistol
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.4, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2081, Name: RocketLauncherT2, Ref: RocketLauncher
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 1.5, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2082, Name: RocketLauncherEpic, Ref: RocketLauncher
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 1.3, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2083, Name: LaserPistolT2, Ref: LaserPistol
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.1, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2084, Name: AssaultRifleT2, Ref: AssaultRifle
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.3, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2085, Name: PulseRifleT2, Ref: PulseRifle
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.3, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2086, Name: PulseRifleEpic, Ref: PulseRifle
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.2, true
  }
  { 
  }
}
{ Item Id: 2087, Name: SurvivalTool
  RadialMenu: true
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.2, true
    RadialText: rdlDefence
    RadialDesc: rdlDefenceTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_Defence
  }
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.1, true
    RadialText: rdlStoneRemoval
    RadialDesc: rdlStoneRemovalTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_StoneRemoval
  }
  { 
    Recoil: 0, display: false													# 0.1, true
    RadialText: rdlDeconstruct
    RadialDesc: rdlDeconstructTxt
    RadialIcon: Radial_Deconstruct
  }
}

[Tarc Novar]

Thanks!

[Weekend Avenger]

Originally posted by Tarc Novar:

I don't really want realism, because this is sci-fi. If and when I want realism, I will go play a flight simulator like X-Plane.

I can understand that you don't want recoil in any form, but that isn't really what my post was about. I think the game needs to have weapons get appreciably better as you progress in the game.

As you progress in the game your going to go to POI's that are much harder than the starter POI's. If the weapons you have access to at level 25 aren't considerably better than what you had at level 10 the game balance will have issues. I think one of the "reasonable" factors that can limit how effective a weapon performs, is recoil. I also think that as the weapons progress above "bullets" to more exotic ammunition that recoil needs to be removed.

You don't want any of the weapons to have recoil which suits how you wish to play. That is a perfectly valid reason. I suspect that the developers went to the trouble of coding in recoil to add another factor to consider in weapon selection beyond range and DPS. I'd simply like for that factor to be applied in a more sensible way than it is now. From my point of view, I expect to deal with recoil if I'm building a rifle designed in 1900's no matter what year it is when I build it, I do not expect to deal with recoil if I'm building a Star Trek phaser.

[VulcanTourist]

Originally posted by Weekend Avenger:

As you progress in the game your going to go to POI's that are much harder than the starter POI's. If the weapons you have access to at level 25 aren't considerably better than what you had at level 10 the game balance will have issues.

You can mod the other characteristics of the weapons (mostly) to create exactly the sort of progression you desire. I've been doing that, though I've been too slapdash about it and need to create a spreadsheet for all of them so that I can accurately implement my plan and eliminate the inconsistencies. Recoil happens to be a deal-breaker for me, so I eliminate it entirely, just as I have with camera shake and every other sensory distraction.

[Weekend Avenger]

Originally posted by VulcanTourist:

Originally posted by Weekend Avenger:

As you progress in the game your going to go to POI's that are much harder than the starter POI's. If the weapons you have access to at level 25 aren't considerably better than what you had at level 10 the game balance will have issues.

You can mod the other characteristics of the weapons (mostly) to create exactly the sort of progression you desire. I've been doing that, though I've been too slapdash about it and need to create a spreadsheet for all of them so that I can accurately implement my plan and eliminate the inconsistencies. Recoil happens to be a deal-breaker for me, so I eliminate it entirely, just as I have with camera shake and every other sensory distraction.

As much as I both understand and applaud you modding the game to suit your playstyle and any others who dislike recoil, I won't be doing any serious modding of mine.

I'm much more interested in what the developers plan is for the "vanilla" game, because I do hold some level of hope for a decent multiplayer game. Most servers I have played on have all NPC's / Monsters at "bullet sponge" levels which get's tedious with bad weaponry.

For weapon progression to actually be of some use, the high level weapons need to be worth getting, explosives need to do some damage and so forth. Currently if I find the game to be too tedious in single player I can always summon the item menu and grab one of the debug weapons. Those tend to show the opposite extreme of being massively over powered, but it is easier than modding is.

[Tarc Novar]

Originally posted by Weekend Avenger:

Originally posted by VulcanTourist:

You can mod the other characteristics of the weapons (mostly) to create exactly the sort of progression you desire. I've been doing that, though I've been too slapdash about it and need to create a spreadsheet for all of them so that I can accurately implement my plan and eliminate the inconsistencies. Recoil happens to be a deal-breaker for me, so I eliminate it entirely, just as I have with camera shake and every other sensory distraction.

As much as I both understand and applaud you modding the game to suit your playstyle and any others who dislike recoil, I won't be doing any serious modding of mine.

I'm much more interested in what the developers plan is for the "vanilla" game, because I do hold some level of hope for a decent multiplayer game. Most servers I have played on have all NPC's / Monsters at "bullet sponge" levels which get's tedious with bad weaponry.

For weapon progression to actually be of some use, the high level weapons need to be worth getting, explosives need to do some damage and so forth. Currently if I find the game to be too tedious in single player I can always summon the item menu and grab one of the debug weapons. Those tend to show the opposite extreme of being massively over powered, but it is easier than modding is.

At some point I intend to run a public server with the enemy toughness set to easy. Other options will be set to hard, so it makes for a challenging experience. I don't like bullet sponges, either.

[Yuz]

I wish i could be able to take a zyrax armor and weapons back to base and research a better equipment for me, like in XCOM game.

For exemple. We start only with projectile weapons and we need zyrax weapons to research and develop new plasma and other advanced weapons, vehicle weapons included.