Empyrion - Galactic Survival

Empyrion - Galactic Survival

MozoTyce Jun 23, 2018 @ 5:47am
Solar Power / Generator Power Mutually Exclusive ?
I know, solar panels have been done to death however i have some info that might shed some light (no pun intended) on the solar power issue.

Knowing that promethium was going to be an issue, i deliberately built my base (alpha 8) to use only solar power, to start with i had a combination of small and large panels then upgraded as resources allowed.

Early game everything worked out great, i had six (large) panels facing north (i'm slightly south of the equator) and two panels facing west (to catch the last rays of the day !).
Making sure to switch off the food processor and constructor when not in use, my battery was pretty constantly more than 17% and often well over 40%.

The day came when i looted a furnace, now i knew my solar was not going to do well with that so i created a furnace room in which i placed two cargo boxes, the furnace and a small fuel tank leaving a space for a small generator.
I figured i'd just remove the genny when i didn't need the furnace, worked out well. I'd place the genny and use the furnace then remove the genny when i switched the furnace off.

Then i noticed..... alpha 8 introduced the ability to switch a generator off.... yay i figured, how useful.
It didn't take long to place a switch on the wall, red light on the ceiling and an lcd 'warning' next to the switch.
Set up the logic so at the flick of a switch on came my genny, furnace, light and warning sign... perfect except....

It seems even with the switch off (and hence the furnace and generator off) my battery is struggling to gain any charge. You'd think that with the generator running and providing far more power than the base uses (especially with the furnace manually switched off) that the solar panels would easily charge the battery (capacitor) but no it not only struggles to charge but it seems to continue to dissipate any residual charge.

So since all these problems started after leaving the generator installed, i removed the generator and went about my business.
On returning tada... 100% charged.

I can only assume that a generator, even if switched off, uses the capacitor as it's fuel as well as the fuel in the tank (the fuel in the tank does not deminish when the genny is off).

Have the devs confused fuel with power ?
Have the devs introduced an on/off switch for the generator but forgotten to change the power draw of the generator when in the off position ?

Conclusion:
Solar Power and Generator Power are mutually exclusive. use one or the other but not both ?
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
EzRyder Jun 23, 2018 @ 6:01am 
ive used all solar and both, and i have seen something similar - seems like the solar does work better with a fuel cell even without a gennie - no idea why
but i will say you dont need to turn off the gennie (it should only draw from fuel if the capacitor is empty), its the furnace you need to disable not the gennie (im not even sure it has a switch tbh) i usually just place it when i need it and then pull and store it when im not using it (rather than the gennie)
almost all items have a static draw (even cargo boxes) so i dont leave the furnace installed
my reason for this is i dont want to lose my garden because i accidintally used the furnace to much
Last edited by EzRyder; Jun 23, 2018 @ 6:02am
MozoTyce Jun 23, 2018 @ 7:15am 
I'm thinking the fuel cell is redundant if the genny is removed. Like i say no genny - everything works fine. Genny installed either switched on or off - bad things happen :(

Btw if you're farm is on a breathable planet loosing power will not kill your plants as long as the room is sealed. They just won't grow until the grow lights come back on.
Admiral-Pain Jun 23, 2018 @ 7:35am 
I have no energy Problems,and i use both.
Solar Cells fill up my Solar Energy Tank, (Battery) , and it is used if it is filled, before the normal Energy Tank is used, and i almost never have to refuell the normal Energy Tanks in my Base.

But there is a important thing to watch.
I always disable the Constructors, when im not producing soemthing.
They need 250 kw each one, when not disabled, and Food processor use 150kw too.
Same with mobile Constructors for your Small Vessels or HV´s, so disable them if not used, and you will have 3 Times more long your Energy, as if it is always on, like many Players do, even if they don´t Produce anything.

So i put all my Food in normal Fridges, that only use 5 kw, and only activate the Processors when i need them.
No Energy problems at all, and the Solar Panels easy can Handle my Base with Guns and Stuff this way for ever.
And i have always reserves in the Solar Battery for Producing Things with my Processors, if needed.
MozoTyce Jun 23, 2018 @ 8:04am 
@Admiral-Pain Can i ask which generator you have installed (ie small, T1, etc) and also when initially building the base did you start out with solar or generator. By that i mean did you install the capacitor before or after the generator ? I'm thinking it might make a difference.
margalus Jun 23, 2018 @ 8:30am 
Without reading the whole thread on my phone I have a few insights.

You don't have to turn off the generator. The generator will not use a drop of fuel or produce any power as long as there is any solar power.

You want 15 large solar panels. with 15 solar panels there are no worries, except for the furnace. I always make a separate building with a generator so that the furnace doesn't drain my main bases solar capacitor.

Lay your solar panels flat on your landing pad an/or roof. Vessels can dock to the solar panels.
Tommyk Jun 23, 2018 @ 8:47am 
I only turn my generator on when I have high demand like repair.

My 15 solars keep my base supplied quite well. Battery is mostly full
Obz3hL33t Jun 23, 2018 @ 9:35am 
Margalus has come close to explaining that you are wasting a lot of effort based on some misconceptions you have about how power works. Nothing he said was wrong, he's just assuming your level of knowledge.

Your generator doesn't need a switch. If you have a capacitor the generator instantly becomes a BACKUP generator, and can never NOT be a backup generator so long as the capacitor remains in place.

This means running the furnace drains your batteries, guaranteed. But surely you'd rather only burn fuel when you need to than always burn fuel every time you run the furnace?

Leave the generator in place, fueled, and switched on ("On" with a solar capacitor installed reallly means "Standby").

If you really want more fuel and can't cut trees you can grow "fiber plants", construct them into biofuel, then manually add it to the fuel tanks. What you'll notice, however, is that your fuel tank stays at 100%, your battery slowly charges, then when you run the furnace it rapidly discharges.

This is normal and good. If your furnace session is long enough the generator will kick in and you'll start burning fuel. Shorter furnace sessions can run purely off the capacitor.
Tommyk Jun 23, 2018 @ 9:38am 
Thanks for explaing Obz3hL33t! I will try that right now!
MozoTyce Jun 23, 2018 @ 9:42am 
I think we're drifting off-track here.
I'm in end-game so resources are not an issue, my post is a recant of the issues i've had and i agree with you entirely, that is how it's supposed to work.

Trouble is that's not what's happening.

My base is very capable of sustaining itself on solar with the furnace switched off as long as i remove the generator.
If i leave the generator in place even if switched off when i return my capacitor is empty. If i remove the generator the capacitor slowly charges and if i'm away a while i return to find it at 100%.

There's summt strange afoot !!
MozoTyce Jun 23, 2018 @ 1:32pm 
Well i'm happy to admit i am wrong !

Just done a number of tests to see what is occurring and i find a few interesting facts.

Firstly if you add a generator to a solar powered base it will happily run without a fuel tank and supply it's power as per. Meaning it draws 1kw of power from the capacitor in order to provide it's 2.50mw. It does not however share this power with the capacitor (correctly imo).
It will continue to run and provide it's power for as long as there is power in the capacitor.
I could not find any way of identifying whether other devices running will use the generators power or the capacitors power, i suspect the power is simply 'pooled' and other devices draw from this pool but i have no way to prove that. Not sure how 1kw of 'electric' is able to generate 2.50mw of electric but hey it's a game !

Secondly the Food Processor (which i used as a power drain) does not draw 150kw as stated, it might do when actually processing things, but just sitting there switched on it draws 22kw.

Thirdly Capacitors do stack, the statistics page (scroll down) shows an integer for battery remaining. If you are at 100% charge with one capacitor and add a second you will now be at 50% but with the same battery remaining figure. I already had two and added two more and it works correctly.

Sidenote: as capacitors used to be limited to one per base i assume the troubles i had initially have now been resolved.

Sidenote number 2: just because you (early game) cannot find fuel, you should still fit a generator to run off your solar panels but remember it itself requires a constant 1kw (small gennerator) of power.

Also, thanks to all you guys for your replies and input which inspired me to take a closer look, turns out you were absolutely correct. The generator is ideal for boosting power output and as a fallback incase the capacitor gets completely dissipated, fitting a fuel tank will ensure power continuation even if you only have a couple of tins of biofuel.

margalus Jun 23, 2018 @ 1:58pm 
Originally posted by MozoTyce:
Well i'm happy to admit i am wrong !

Just done a number of tests to see what is occurring and i find a few interesting facts.

Firstly if you add a generator to a solar powered base it will happily run without a fuel tank and supply it's power as per. Meaning it draws 1kw of power from the capacitor in order to provide it's 2.50mw. It does not however share this power with the capacitor (correctly imo).
It will continue to run and provide it's power for as long as there is power in the capacitor.
I could not find any way of identifying whether other devices running will use the generators power or the capacitors power, i suspect the power is simply 'pooled' and other devices draw from this pool but i have no way to prove that. Not sure how 1kw of 'electric' is able to generate 2.50mw of electric but hey it's a game !

The generator isn't producing a single watt of power with no fuel. It looks like it's powered on and running, and the base stats say it's producing 2.5MW. But it actually isn't producing anything at ll, that is a very deceiving thing. Not sure if it's a glitch or what.

Originally posted by MozoTyce:
Secondly the Food Processor (which i used as a power drain) does not draw 150kw as stated, it might do when actually processing things, but just sitting there switched on it draws 22kw.

This is correct, it's the load power they state, not the idle power. The only one that really eats power idle is the Repair Station, make sure you turn it off when not in use. It does use over 150kw idle.

Originally posted by MozoTyce:
Thirdly Capacitors do stack, the statistics page (scroll down) shows an integer for battery remaining. If you are at 100% charge with one capacitor and add a second you will now be at 50% but with the same battery remaining figure. I already had two and added two more and it works correctly.

Sidenote: as capacitors used to be limited to one per base i assume the troubles i had initially have now been resolved.

I will have to look into if it actually works or if it's deceiving you like the generator power.

Originally posted by MozoTyce:

Sidenote number 2: just because you (early game) cannot find fuel, you should still fit a generator to run off your solar panels but remember it itself requires a constant 1kw (small gennerator) of power.

See my point above, your generator is not producing a single watt of power without fuel, it just looks like it is.
margalus Jun 23, 2018 @ 1:59pm 
Originally posted by Obz3hL33t:
Margalus has come close to explaining that you are wasting a lot of effort based on some misconceptions you have about how power works. Nothing he said was wrong, he's just assuming your level of knowledge.

I wasn't really "assuming" their level of knowledge. I was just on my phone at the time and can't type out good long explanations on the phone. :steamhappy:
VoshkaVonBadMeow Jun 23, 2018 @ 2:00pm 
I'm thinking this might be a bug.. so I wouldn't rely on it too much :)
Graf Schokola Jun 23, 2018 @ 2:04pm 
Dont build big bases. Built many small bases and stack all 15 solarcells in the sky. My main bases complex has ~200 solarcells. Split furnace, farm, production sides and defence buildings to different bases - 1 base per 1 furnace, 1 base per 2 constructors, 1 base per 1 foodmaker + 16x9x9 pots. You will never have power problems again.

For storage: build a SV with many cargo boxes 4mx4mx2m is a good choice - its a mobile closet for storage. You can move it from base to CV and so.
Obz3hL33t Jun 23, 2018 @ 2:23pm 
@margalus: Fair enough! :D

A separate "Furnace Base" seems like a really good idea even if you don't want to build a giant complex of bases.

I always build on the equator so I can use flat cells on the roof and not worry about shade. I also always build near water to make it easy to scuba dive for healing supplies and warp fuel. This translates to my always living in a swamp.
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Date Posted: Jun 23, 2018 @ 5:47am
Posts: 15