Another D-Bag Simulator?

[MrGowdy]

To put it simply, games like this (Rust, Ark, etc) seem to be more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ simulators than anything else when not played in a pure PvE environment. Are we ever going to see this fixed so that the game(s) like these can become more successful and expand beyond the small niche they typically attract?

If you’re not sure what I mean about ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Simulator I’ll give a basic description here. Basically it allows for people to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s within the game and provides little to no consequence for doing so. Take Ark/Rust for example. You spawn and in many cases immediately get killed on public servers over and over by higher level players who want to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s. Not a fun experience for new players and they quit shortly after.

Take games that allow you to build up a bit in a PvE safe environment at first. Once you move into the “real” game the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Simulator begins. You build a base, put up some defenses, log out to get that much needed sleep because you have a job and/or family. While sleeping Mr. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ destroys your stuff. He didn’t need any of your gear because he has been farming and/or playing a lot longer than you.

There are no consequences for doing these things in games like this. It alienates a vast majority of players and keeps these games in the tiny niche markets.
Unfortunately this conversation usually only gets one response. Players who like these games say “L2P” “Carebear” or “Go play Tetris”. Players who agree, typically just avoid these games completely.

Many of us (my circle of friends and people we play with) all agree that this style of game (open world creative sandbox) is awesome… and we all want the ability to fight against other players…. But there needs to be some controls to prevent massive guilds/factions or high level players from running around screwing with others for no reason other than they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s and bored.

[TheRealThing]

Best bet here OP, if you have the extra PC that can handle it is to open up your own server, and invite friends only. It's what I plan to do with my friends so we know whos on the server and if down the road we want to open it up to more players we will be monitoring hard for people who come to cause problems. That won't be till the galaxy opens up so people can spread out.

[TriXx]

Of all the care-bearing I've read about PVP on this post, there is a little gem that would be most useful. If you die, you should get the option of respawning in your base, even if your base is in a different sector. That way, if you do go to a PVP sector and get killed, you only lose what you had on you and your ship. That would solve this.

[Red]

My reply is, find a group of like-minded individuals in the community and see if any of them have a server they're running and go there. Considering the amount of replies you got that aren't 'L2P', 'Carebear', and 'Go play Tetris', I'm willing to bet there's enough people on to make a good, solid group of players to form a well regulated server that would fit perfectly into what you, and consequently, your friends would like. Also you get to make new friends.

[Fistagon]

PerfectXtreme님이 먼저 게시:

Again, I can't stress how much I live the concept of these games (Ark, Rust, 7D2D, Emp, etc). I also want an enjoyable PvP experience like I get in Overwatch, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, etc.

The problem is that your Survival games are a very different genre than the PvP games you mentioned. Overwatch and LoL are arena PvP games, and have no open-world environment. Even WoW's structured PvP is based in arenas with objectives. Most open world PvP in WoW is usually one-sided (max level ganking lower levels, 2-or-3v1, etc.). You can't really ask for a high freedom game, and then complain when people use their freedom to ruin your day.

As far as PvP on servers goes, it really is up to the Server Admins to set up a 'police force' if they want to. If the Devs do decide to make a law-and-order NPC group, it would be later in development. I kind of doubt that is going to happen though, since this game's premise is that you are a person whos ship got shot down en route to Empyrion, and now you have to find a way to survive in hostile space, so it would seem that most NPC groups would probably be hostile towards the player. That's my take on it, at least. Also, instead of seeing this problem as just a wall, try to work the problem. Ally up with other people on the server, such as others just starting out in the PvE zones, and you can all jump in to PvP as a group, instead of just a lone person.

I do agree that you should be able to set a respawn point (Such as home base on Omicron) should you die in a PvP zone, but I think that they are working to add that in the future.

EVE is what really taught me about high-risk PVP. If you are going to take your ship into LowSec, you better be ready to lose that ship and everything its holding. If you aren't willing to take that risk, you probably should wait before flying into a PVP zone.

[Ballsm]

Lol d bag

[MrGowdy]

All valid points.

I stand by my idea (and haven't seen an argument against it that holds true) that if they don't build systems to prevent this d-bag simulator situation then the games won't ever make it past niche audiances.

Ark is very popular-ish but most servers are fairly under-populated because the major clans rule them and new players/groups quickly give up and either go to private servers... play for a bit and quit the game when they get bored or join the major alpha clans and are now part of this massive group that has no one to fight outside of new players just starting out.

The other games listed have MASSIVE player bases because the PvP experience is enjoyable way more often. The first Empyrion type game that comes up with solid PvP reul sets that prevent the d-bag factor as much as possible I feel will have a massive multiplayer following.

[darrylhs]

You are forgetting one thing, you can't have a "massive" multiplayer on small servers like this game is designed for. As such most servers will only have 20 or 30 people online at any given time if they are busy. That's not very hard to admin really.

As far as MMO goes the only promise in the horizon I have seen is dual universe which goes into alpha sometime 2017 and probably beta early 2018. I hope beta hits that early anyway as I was too cheap to support it at the level required to get in on alpha testing.

From the limited info available at this stage of development players will be able to either buy or make territory beacons which lay claim. There will be a PVE only safe zone for new players but with a massive universe the hope is that players will team up and solo players will venture far out into the universe for safety. It's hard to say how the PVP will play out but I am guessing that the organizations already being formed amongst players will be the best safety net available. Get friends and have a bigger army than the other guys

[Dies Fourth]

PerfectXtreme님이 먼저 게시:

All valid points.

I stand by my idea (and haven't seen an argument against it that holds true) that if they don't build systems to prevent this d-bag simulator situation then the games won't ever make it past niche audiances.

Well if being " niche " sells units you can say anything you want. Cuz they are selling and ppl are playing desipte your claim they all get bored and quit. If you'll notice theres very few threads like yours on the forums ( compareativly ).

When you say " most quit " I say most " Git Gud "..............youve been given SEVERAL alternatives youve chosen to ignore. You want this thread to " fix " what you think is broken. As well as you not posting this on the official forums.

Your in the minority, your group might quit but the majority figure out a way to adapt and survive. Check the numbers of ppl playing since you wont believe me.

Studios make more and more of this PVP type game with all sorts of " nichey " twists.......... above ground,underground, underwater, in outer space , in hell ect ect. And all move units and ppl PVP in all of them.

Yes youve gotten a few ppl to agree pvp sucks IN SOME CASES but the majority AND the developers keep playing/making games so some1 must be ok with them.

The logical conclusion from the studios NOT preventing PVP is that theyre ok with it and ALOT of ppl like it. Theres plenty of servers out there for you to play on. It seems you dont want that but want a complete re-write of the game basedon your personal desires of how it should be played. Youve decided what is " fair " PVP and you wont stop until you get your way.

Im not trying to be mean or aggressive twords you, im trying to be polite and considerate when i say, PVP is apart of modern gaming culture, the competeive nature of humans will never change. Ppl want games where they can be dominant and rule as much as possible. The game studios know this and make games where thats possible.

Again, you have options. Please use them as these qualities are hard wired into human beings. Theres plenty of games where the teams are even and all have access to the same weapons. In the newrer " niche " games the PVP will still be there but you have to work for dominance, In this case theyre will always be winners and ppl that didnt win.

[MrGowdy]

Actually, I disagree that a lot of people like it. The community and ACTUAL PLAY HOURS for these types of games are pretty small. The people who don't like it typically pick it up, play a few, then quit forever. They know they're "Douchebag Simulators" and avoid them completely.

There is a big difference between a lot of hype on a game, lots of people buying it, and people actually enjoying it and continuing to play it.

No Mans Sky is a great example. HUGE hype, lots of sales, no one plays it anymore.

Ark has a decent number of sales, but the actual metrics on number of people who purchased, played for a decent number of hours, and CONTINUE to play is tiny.

FFF, PVP, Douchebag simulators all end up the same way, tiny niche groups of people on lots of small servers (and by small I mean 0-5 players). You have 10 or so servers with 30+ people on them if you're lucky and that number is tiny....

If the game didn't effecitvely suck for PvP which is the only end-game in most of them currently then people would continue to play and the populations and "stickiness" of the games would be much MUCH higher.

[Dies Fourth]

PerfectXtreme님이 먼저 게시:

Actually, I disagree that a lot of people like it. The community and ACTUAL PLAY HOURS for these types of games are pretty small. The people who don't like it typically pick it up, play a few, then quit forever. They know they're "Douchebag Simulators" and avoid them completely.

There is a big difference between a lot of hype on a game, lots of people buying it, and people actually enjoying it and continuing to play it.

No Mans Sky is a great example. HUGE hype, lots of sales, no one plays it anymore.

Ark has a decent number of sales, but the actual metrics on number of people who purchased, played for a decent number of hours, and CONTINUE to play is tiny.

FFF, PVP, Douchebag simulators all end up the same way, tiny niche groups of people on lots of small servers (and by small I mean 0-5 players). You have 10 or so servers with 30+ people on them if you're lucky and that number is tiny....

If the game didn't effecitvely suck for PvP which is the only end-game in most of them currently then people would continue to play and the populations and "stickiness" of the games would be much MUCH higher.

You need to prove those statements or theyre as valid as me saying " most unicorns ♥♥♥♥ cupcakes "............... just cuz i want it to be true and i think it is doesnt mean it is.

Prove thses statemnts please.

1. "The community and ACTUAL PLAY HOURS for these types of games are pretty small. The people who don't like it typically pick it up, play a few, then quit forever. They know they're "Douchebag Simulators" and avoid them completely. "

2. " Ark has a decent number of sales, but the actual metrics on number of people who purchased, played for a decent number of hours, and CONTINUE to play is tiny. "

No mans sky is a horrible comparisom.

Heres ACTUAL NUMBERS !!!

http://steamcharts.com/app/346110#1y


playing 27 min ago 65,422


24-hour peak 84,838


all-time peak 84,393

2016-01-06


Week from Monday, Jul 25, 2016● ARK: Survival Evolved: 60,039
Compare with others...
Month Avg. Players Gain % Gain Peak Players
Last 30 Days 39,779.8 +3,757.0 +10.43% 76,879
December 2016 36,022.8 +4,706.0 +15.03% 67,651
November 2016 31,316.8 -1,606.2 -4.88% 54,698
October 2016 32,923.0 -4,411.8 -11.82% 59,524
September 2016 37,334.8 +2,124.2 +6.03% 67,157
August 2016 35,210.6 -3,857.1 -9.87% 60,039
July 2016 39,067.7 -3,319.2 -7.83% 69,764
June 2016 42,386.9 +3,204.7 +8.18% 71,194
May 2016 39,182.2 +3,796.6 +10.73% 78,089
April 2016 35,385.6 -278.4 -0.78% 63,900
March 2016 35,664.0 -2,083.6 -5.52% 63,069
February 2016 37,747.6 -1,306.8 -3.35% 65,577
January 2016 39,054.4 +6,961.5 +21.69% 67,018
December 2015 32,092.9 -769.5 -2.34% 55,946
November 2015 32,862.4 -5,158.4 -13.57% 59,880
October 2015 38,020.9 +2,522.6 +7.11% 64,516
September 2015 35,498.3 -9,558.7 -21.21% 60,299
August 2015 45,057.0 -1,707.8 -3.65% 84,838
July 2015 46,764.8 +3,893.3 +9.08% 74,888
June 2015 42,871.5 +42,866.2 +811697.24% 80,162

From release 06/15 compared to 12/16 the difference is about 400 players.

Wheres everyone who quit ???

Im afraid your starting to get annoying. Your speculations are FALSE as proven by the steam charts.

Your comments are fueled by emotion and dont have 1 ounce of reality at all. Please stop with your wildly inaccurate over dramatic speculations.

You cant prove 1 thing youve claimed. !!

This statement alone......

" FFF, PVP, Douchebag simulators all end up the same way, tiny niche groups of people on lots of small servers (and by small I mean 0-5 players). You have 10 or so servers with 30+ people on them if you're lucky and that number is tiny.... "


shows your consumed by hatred and frustration over a label YOU CREATED and applied to this game ! You desperately want this to be what you are SCREAMING in your head its become but its just not that at all. The voices in your head are incorrect.

[MrGowdy]

Sadly, there isn't any reliable data source for us as far as I know.

I could find numbers of total estimated sales on steam, then cross reference that with number of average players and it would be a TINY percent. However what we really need is average play time per user account. AND average play time for games on that users' account.

In this case I can tell you I'm very confident that the average play time of users who purchase these types of games is a horribly bad (small) number. It could be so much more if problems were fixed.

I didn't create the Douchbag simulator label. I actually read it on a DEVELOPER post from a game similar to this one in early alpha. They know this is a problem, they know people hate it, they know it drives vast majority of players away after the first few minutes/hours.

[Dies Fourth]

PerfectXtreme님이 먼저 게시:

Sadly, there isn't any reliable data source for us as far as I know.

I could find numbers of total estimated sales on steam, then cross reference that with number of average players and it would be a TINY percent. However what we really need is average play time per user account. AND average play time for games on that users' account.

In this case I can tell you I'm very confident that the average play time of users who purchase these types of games is a horribly bad (small) number. It could be so much more if problems were fixed.

I didn't create the Douchbag simulator label. I actually read it on a DEVELOPER post from a game similar to this one in early alpha. They know this is a problem, they know people hate it, they know it drives vast majority of players away after the first few minutes/hours.

Thn how do you rxplain the consistent numbers of ppl that bought it way back when and ppl that played in the last 30 days being within 400 of each other.

How is that driving away a " vast majority " ?? If the numbers of ppl who bought it are basically the same as those who play it now, what vast majority got friven away ??

I think you took that developers comment about God knows what game and are applying it to this game. The context of his statement isnt clear either.

You KEEP saying things from your personal opinion and pass them off as some sort of fact.
When ever i say something possibly contreversial i ALWAYS say " in my personal opinion ".

In this case, in the context of this video game the numbers dont back what you say......... actually they prove the opposite. Opinions are fine, dont like the PVP aspect of the game but speaking for " the vast majority ".................. i never voted for you OR Trump !!

[VISION305]

I can tell you what I find that brings me back to the game. It is PVE, and being able to generate a whiole new world for a new game. PVP is something I dont really ever want to engage in on purpose. Perhaps when the galaxy is so big I wouldnt mind there being a chance of interacting with other players. I suspect they would mostly be cool people. Space attracts more mature types. Zombies and Dinosaurs tend to attract immature D-Bags.