Made For This/Resilience

[NotBadSlayer08]

Why do i always see peoples complaining about MFT but never about Resilience, yet these two perks match up in therm of power for survivors.

I would even say that Resilience is stronger because it allows you to heal faster, open doors faster, make generators faster while the side effect of MFT is far too situational to be on the same level as the Resilience passives mentioned above.

I know that the 3% can be game changing in terms of closes hits but that's exactly the same problem with resilience, but it's for windows and pallets so why i see no killer main wanting this perk to be nerfed but conversely MFT i see posts everyday about nerfing this perk and killer main being really pissy about it, so why one but not he's older brother ?

[me mushroom man]

Resi probably gets a decent pass due to existing forever, whereas MFT is new.

As a killer, you definitely *feel* MFT more in chase, especially as a 110 speed. Gens might pop faster, people may heal faster, etc but you won't really notice this too much on killer unless your macro sense is insane or something.

Faster vaulting does get some cool moments, but considering they just buffed fast vaults, resi value in that realm is comparatively a bit lower IMO.

MFT is also basically two perks in one, the speed being one, endurance the other. While you don't get endurance value with it a ton, it is a slap in the face to killer sometimes when used well.

For reference, resilience cuts generator time by ~9 seconds assuming you did the entire gen wounded. Not an insignificant amount of time, but you need to also consider this leaves survivors vulnerable by opting in to stay wounded. Most resi value is out of chase arguably, and MFT value is found in chase.

The most engaging part of the game is chasing, so naturally people will be more vocal about perks/changes to the chasing dynamic.

[Tragopan]

The truth is that neither is really that strong. They have some synergy but in the grand scheme of things they matter little to the outcome of the match... which is still extremely Killer sided.

There are some vocal people on this forum who wish their 4ks came easier without acknowledging the fact they're 4king every single game. Made for This bothers these people because it slightly extends the length of the match that they're going to win anyway. It's the same people who defended Eruption, complained about Dead Hard/Circle of Healing and thought there was nothing wrong with the generator meta. Rules for thee not for me, basically.

[Wesker]

Originally posted by Tragopan:

The truth is that neither is really that strong. They have some synergy but in the grand scheme of things they matter little to the outcome of the match... which is still extremely Killer sided.

There are some vocal people on this forum who wish their 4ks came easier without acknowledging the fact they're 4king every single game. Made for This bothers these people because it slightly extends the length of the match that they're going to win anyway. It's the same people who defended Eruption, complained about Dead Hard/Circle of Healing and thought there was nothing wrong with the generator meta. Rules for thee not for me, basically.

Eruption was 10,000x more problematic than anything in the game besides maybe 1.0.0 brand new parts.

[Tragopan]

Originally posted by Torch:

Originally posted by Tragopan:

The truth is that neither is really that strong. They have some synergy but in the grand scheme of things they matter little to the outcome of the match... which is still extremely Killer sided.

There are some vocal people on this forum who wish their 4ks came easier without acknowledging the fact they're 4king every single game. Made for This bothers these people because it slightly extends the length of the match that they're going to win anyway. It's the same people who defended Eruption, complained about Dead Hard/Circle of Healing and thought there was nothing wrong with the generator meta. Rules for thee not for me, basically.

Eruption was 10,000x more problematic than anything in the game besides maybe 1.0.0 brand new parts.

This is true. I wish they'd just replace brand new parts with a different add-on. Toolboxes in general are a very boring (yet strong) item and having to balance the matches anywhere from none to 4+ toolboxes (with BNPs) leaves the generator situation as volatile.

[Voidlines]

Probably because resilience doesn't have anything that's actually a problem and has a balanced risk/reward compared to haste, which is far more important in general gameplay for only being injured.

Resiliance is only used to focus on vaulting speeds and gen progression in most builds from what I've seen. And by itself, it still requires you to go to a location to use it's benefit, and everything it boosts isn't as strong as haste is. It's also why people run both, MFT is a direct buff to resiliance because you're going to make it to those windows much faster and use the time the killer has to go around the walls to get to another loop/window that much faster. Resilience by itself can't even compare to haste.

[NotBadSlayer08]

Originally posted by xarenth:

Resi probably gets a decent pass due to existing forever, whereas MFT is new.

As a killer, you definitely *feel* MFT more in chase, especially as a 110 speed. Gens might pop faster, people may heal faster, etc but you won't really notice this too much on killer unless your macro sense is insane or something.

Faster vaulting does get some cool moments, but considering they just buffed fast vaults, resi value in that realm is comparatively a bit lower IMO.

MFT is also basically two perks in one, the speed being one, endurance the other. While you don't get endurance value with it a ton, it is a slap in the face to killer sometimes when used well.

For reference, resilience cuts generator time by ~9 seconds assuming you did the entire gen wounded. Not an insignificant amount of time, but you need to also consider this leaves survivors vulnerable by opting in to stay wounded. Most resi value is out of chase arguably, and MFT value is found in chase.

The most engaging part of the game is chasing, so naturally people will be more vocal about perks/changes to the chasing dynamic.

You may not notice during the game but just this passive of making generators faster "+ 99% the heal" can be much more game changing than the passive the MFT which as i said is too situational, for tell you I've never seen anyone have value with that unlike For The Peoples and the new Buckle up, this is the real ♥♥♥♥.

and missing hits that without thoses perks could pass is equally destructive in both cases.

So me personally i find Resilience to be more "op" than MFT just for the side effects and the fact that it still works under exhaustion.

[NotBadSlayer08]

Originally posted by Chaos:

Probably because resilience doesn't have anything that's actually a problem and has a balanced risk/reward compared to haste, which is far more important in general gameplay for only being injured.

Resiliance is only used to focus on vaulting speeds and gen progression in most builds from what I've seen. And by itself, it still requires you to go to a location to use it's benefit, and everything it boosts isn't as strong as haste is. It's also why people run both, MFT is a direct buff to resiliance because you're going to make it to those windows much faster and use the time the killer has to go around the walls to get to another loop/window that much faster. Resilience by itself can't even compare to haste.

Wheres the risk about this perk ?

If it's being injured, MFT does it too.

Resilience can be considered Haste for Windows/Pallets/Gen/Door/Heal xd

[me mushroom man]

Originally posted by NotBadSlayer08:

Originally posted by xarenth:

Resi probably gets a decent pass due to existing forever, whereas MFT is new.

As a killer, you definitely *feel* MFT more in chase, especially as a 110 speed. Gens might pop faster, people may heal faster, etc but you won't really notice this too much on killer unless your macro sense is insane or something.

Faster vaulting does get some cool moments, but considering they just buffed fast vaults, resi value in that realm is comparatively a bit lower IMO.

MFT is also basically two perks in one, the speed being one, endurance the other. While you don't get endurance value with it a ton, it is a slap in the face to killer sometimes when used well.

For reference, resilience cuts generator time by ~9 seconds assuming you did the entire gen wounded. Not an insignificant amount of time, but you need to also consider this leaves survivors vulnerable by opting in to stay wounded. Most resi value is out of chase arguably, and MFT value is found in chase.

The most engaging part of the game is chasing, so naturally people will be more vocal about perks/changes to the chasing dynamic.

You may not notice during the game but just this passive of making generators faster "+ 99% the heal" can be much more game changing than the passive the MFT which as i said is too situational, for tell you I've never seen anyone have value with that unlike For The Peoples and the new Buckle up, this is the real ♥♥♥♥.

and missing hits that without thoses perks could pass is equally destructive in both cases.

So me personally i find Resilience to be more "op" than MFT just for the side effects and the fact that it still works under exhaustion.

Yeah, FTP+Buckle Up is pretty nasty right now. Resilience may be stronger for winning games, but people generally don't talk about winning/losing (even if they claim to). Their conversations tend to be about fun, and I'll stand by my original statement that you can feel MFT in chases much more than the bonus vault speed from resilience.

[Voidlines]

Originally posted by NotBadSlayer08:

Originally posted by Chaos:

Probably because resilience doesn't have anything that's actually a problem and has a balanced risk/reward compared to haste, which is far more important in general gameplay for only being injured.

Resiliance is only used to focus on vaulting speeds and gen progression in most builds from what I've seen. And by itself, it still requires you to go to a location to use it's benefit, and everything it boosts isn't as strong as haste is. It's also why people run both, MFT is a direct buff to resiliance because you're going to make it to those windows much faster and use the time the killer has to go around the walls to get to another loop/window that much faster. Resilience by itself can't even compare to haste.

Wheres the risk about this perk ?

If it's being injured, MFT does it too.

Resilience can be considered Haste for Windows/Pallets/Gen/Door/Heal xd

Injured with resiliance is more of a risk than MFT for two reasons:

Resiliance mostly has bonuses to things when you're sitting still doing something: Gens, healing, etc and gives the killer a chance to get close and knock you down. MFT is a constant haste, meaning compared to a Resiliance user without MFT running from a spot is at more of a risk to failing to get to a loop than MFT.

Secondly, the speed from vaulting isn't going to buy you as much time as constant haste. I might not be used to the buffed vaults, but I definitely notice when loops are more or less doable against someone with and without resiliance and MFT, even worse if they have both.

And besides all that, the perk also encourages just dropping chase as killer more often, especially M1 killers because you can't risk being ran 3% longer in chase. And you can't entirely rely on bloodlust to catch up because it resets during chase pretty often depending on the loops. Heck, I've had it drop in normal low wall safe loops on Borgo for whatever reason despite constantly following them, and it's hard to tell if that's because of MFT's distance creation or not.

Personally though, the only change to MFT I'd like to see is a time limit to the haste, something like 10-20 seconds after injured, it'd make it not nearly as tough against already strong loops/main buildings.

[NotBadSlayer08]

Originally posted by xarenth:

Originally posted by NotBadSlayer08:

You may not notice during the game but just this passive of making generators faster "+ 99% the heal" can be much more game changing than the passive the MFT which as i said is too situational, for tell you I've never seen anyone have value with that unlike For The Peoples and the new Buckle up, this is the real ♥♥♥♥.

and missing hits that without thoses perks could pass is equally destructive in both cases.

So me personally i find Resilience to be more "op" than MFT just for the side effects and the fact that it still works under exhaustion.

Yeah, FTP+Buckle Up is pretty nasty right now. Resilience may be stronger for winning games, but people generally don't talk about winning/losing (even if they claim to). Their conversations tend to be about fun, and I'll stand by my original statement that you can feel MFT in chases much more than the bonus vault speed from resilience.

You feel MFT in chase when you try to do a perfect swing but didn't take too account this perk, yes like Resilience

But if you run from bottom to top of a map with this perk, you will have gained 2/3 seconds compared to a person who does not have the perk so it's not a question of speed it's a question of timing at the swing level, if you try for a perfect swing but you don't take this perk into account you will miss the down.

The only time i find MFT annoying asf is when combined with Hope, but let's agree to disagree.

[Albert Minigolf]

Keep in mind a lot of people already cheat, adding a 3% speed boost to themselves or so. Now you are at 6%. I also think the endurance after healing should be a separate perk. Even most survivor youtubers are calling for a MFT nerf.

[erandomone]

We can hopefully agree that perks stacking in general is a consistent issue.
Speed perks shouldn't stack (NOED + PWYF rocketship or MFT + Hope), and if regression perks didn't stack they wouldn't have been such a huge issue that they all got a hatchet job so they only, ironically, work if you stack a few of them together.

[Voidlines]

Originally posted by erandomone:

We can hopefully agree that perks stacking in general is a consistent issue.
Speed perks shouldn't stack (NOED + PWYF rocketship or MFT + Hope), and if regression perks didn't stack they wouldn't have been such a huge issue that they all got a hatchet job so they only, ironically, work if you stack a few of them together.

I can agree with this. The entire gen issue for progression/regression would have been fixed with hard caps on stacking.

Haste though? Haste shouldn't stack at all, considering it's the strongest effect in the game for both parties.

[Everchosen]

Funny survivors think haste stacking should be removed, instead of simple MFT nerf.

[me mushroom man]

Haste should most definitely stack, but perhaps receive diminishing returns upon hitting certain thresholds. That, or they could make sources of haste multiplicative rather than additive to accomplish a similar effect.

Raw number tweaks could work, too. IMO MFT at 3% is fine, but MFT+Hope for 110 is ridiculous. Hope could see a tweak down to 5% or something.