Vulkan has eliminated screen tearing when V-sync is disabled.

[Disciple-X]

So, I found this too good to be true. When Vsync is disabled, I have ZERO screen tearing and my fps hovers at 130-160. When enabled, I get a strict FPS of 60 with the known input delay. When disabled, FPS shoots back up, input delay is NOT noticeable anymore, and screen tearing is still non-existent. Am I the only one who has been blessed by this? My TV is my monitor, and it's a very basic/generic Sceptre brand.

Current Rig (basic info).
AMD 8350
Geforce Titan X
32gb DDR3

[Nicholas Steel]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SixelAlexiS:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DX--TENSEI--:

I'm in full screen. But before Vulkan, I was still getting screen tearing in OpenGL when vsync was disabled.

When you play on high number fps (like 140) you don't see much tearing in any game, it' normal.
On window or borderless window mode you can't see tearing anyway (you got stutter instead).

The reason you get no tearing in Windowed and Bordeless Fullscreen is because the Windows DWM under Vista, 7, 8.x and Windows 10 handles vsync for applictions that don't operate in an exclusive display mode.

[MancSoulja]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DX--TENSEI--:

Yes. I'm trying to convince myself this is a placebo effect... but the in game FPS stats (and constantly enabling/disabling Vsync to do a doublet-take) have me questioning my sanity at the moment.

Why would you want to play a game at 150fps on a 60htz display? It's just a complete waste of electricity.

[Nicholas Steel]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MancSoulja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DX--TENSEI--:

Yes. I'm trying to convince myself this is a placebo effect... but the in game FPS stats (and constantly enabling/disabling Vsync to do a doublet-take) have me questioning my sanity at the moment.

Why would you want to play a game at 150fps on a 60htz display? It's just a complete waste of electricity.

Disabling Vsync improves gamepad/keyboard/mouse responsiveness and at 150FPS (2x or more FPS than the display can handle) he can enable proper Triple Buffering (FastSync) to eliminate screen tearing while retaining extremely responsive inputs.

Don't know if AMD has something like FastSync.

[SixelAlexiS]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MancSoulja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DX--TENSEI--:

Yes. I'm trying to convince myself this is a placebo effect... but the in game FPS stats (and constantly enabling/disabling Vsync to do a doublet-take) have me questioning my sanity at the moment.

Why would you want to play a game at 150fps on a 60htz display? It's just a complete waste of electricity.

lol... you mad? with more fps your game is much responsive, even on 60hz... and if you play with no vsync (and with competitive fps you have to) you almost don't see tearing on 140fps vs 60-70fps...

[MancSoulja]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SixelAlexiS:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MancSoulja:

Why would you want to play a game at 150fps on a 60htz display? It's just a complete waste of electricity.

lol... you mad? with more fps your game is much responsive, even on 60hz... and if you play with no vsync (and with competitive fps you have to) you almost don't see tearing on 140fps vs 60-70fps...

The monitor has a set response time regardless of the frametime, Playing at high framerates wont change that. If this is what's important to you, go buy a 0ms monitor not a new GPU.

[Paradise Decay]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DX--TENSEI--:

So, I found this too good to be true. When Vsync is disabled, I have ZERO screen tearing and my fps hovers at 130-160. When enabled, I get a strict FPS of 60 with the known input delay. When disabled, FPS shoots back up, input delay is NOT noticeable anymore, and screen tearing is still non-existent. Am I the only one who has been blessed by this? My TV is my monitor, and it's a very basic/generic Sceptre brand.

Current Rig (basic info).
AMD 8350
Geforce Titan X
32gb DDR3

Vsync needs to be OFF using Vulcan, with Vsync on the game defaults to your monitors Hz.
So if your monitors is running at 50Hz the game sticks to 50 FPS etc.

[Andvari]

I had a bug where vsync was enabled even though I had disabled it. I flicked it on and off a few times then restarted the game and eventually it worked.

[AzzKickr.be]

Just jumping in on the discussion because I still have tearing using Vulkan without vsync. Only with vsync enabled the tearing is gone. oldskool 60hz monitor on an R9 390.

[Disciple-X]

So, to quickly answer or provide more information to everyone in this post and to cover as many scenarios as possible, here's some summarized info.

I tried these settings as a test using the in game options/settings menu...

OpenGL Borderless with no vysnc = got screen tearing but no input delay, 100+ fps
OpenGL Fullscreen with no vsync = got screen tearing with no input delay, 100+ fps
OpenGL Borderless with vsync = screen tearing gone but with very noticeable input delay, 60fps
OpenGL Fullscreen with vsync = screen tearing gone but with very noticeable input delay, 60fps

Vulkan Borderless with no vsync = No screen tearing and no noticeable input delay, 100+ fps
Vulkan Fullscreen with no vsync = No screen tearing and no noticeable input delay, 100+ fps
Vulkan Borderless with vsync = No screen tearing but SLIGHT keyboard input delay, 60fps
Vulkan Fullscreen with vsync = No screen tearing but SLIGHT keyboard input delay, 60fps

Keep in mind that enabling vsync in game does not appear to invoke a simple FPS cap command, but instead invokes a timing command. Timing and capping appear to be two different things from my perspective. Quake 3 and Quake3 engine games used r_swapinterval for this, and also had a com_maxfps command - They were two different things though, and Doom 2016 appears to use a similar set of commands to accomplish the same thing.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MancSoulja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DX--TENSEI--:

Yes. I'm trying to convince myself this is a placebo effect... but the in game FPS stats (and constantly enabling/disabling Vsync to do a doublet-take) have me questioning my sanity at the moment.

Why would you want to play a game at 150fps on a 60htz display? It's just a complete waste of electricity.

I'm quite happy with 60fps or even a tad lower. I'm listing the high fps as test criteria for this vsync topic, not because I need anything over 60fps. ;)

[elPasquin]

I noticed the same with a r9 280. I suppose that those saying that fullscreen is in fact borderless window are right because I cant think of any other explanation.

I would like to limit my fps to 60 anyway and FRTC in AMD Crimson is not working. Any other way to do it?

[Disgraciau]

I don't know why, but in my case Adaptive Vsync doesn't work in Vulkan , it just works like Vsync OFF. And I have screen tearing even in borderless. I have a performance boost though, now runs at 60+ FPS all the time with everything maxed out (except Shadows and Virtual Texture which i can't set in Nightmare due to VRAM).

R9 380 Nitro 4 GB with latest Crimson drivers (16.7.2)

[LooneyJuice]

I posted about this here too.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/379720/discussions/0/358417461606572430/

Vulkan is in fact running in Borderless window all the time, hence the no tearing. And people noticing input lag when in "Fullscreen" are in fact experiencing lag from the Window Manager sync on Windows. It is not indeed true fullscreen. You can test simply if you have a windows volume hotkey, or usb dongle, or something. The volume bar adjustment will actually appear on top of the current window.

[Nicholas Steel]

This would also explain why the gameplay isn't as smooth feeling even though the FPS is better (or the same) with Vulkan.

The Windows Desktop Window Manager (DWM) has an abysmal vsync implementation that causes Windowed and Borderless programs to miss vblank several times over short periods of time so you end up with micro-bursts of frame skipping or duplicate frames. So while the frame rate remains great, what you see "looks" stuttery because the video frames are not being presented to the display correctly.

Fullscreen Exclusive Display Mode is unaffected by the DWM and will utilize the games Vsync implementation designed by the game developer which works very well and is unlikely to produce frame skipping or duplicate frames (Most games use a more traditional/brute force vblank detection routine dating back to the 90's) so frame pacing is very consistent in this scenario.

Currently Fullscreen Exclusive Display Mode is only available in DOOM's OpenGL mode, not Vulkan.

Edit: I'll admit, Windows 10 Build 1511 and newer seem to have greatly improved the DWM but it still does often have periodic bursts of failing to detect Vblank (Their very small bursts of missing/duplicate video frames). Windows 10 RTM through to Vista have abysmal DWM's (Very long, very, very frequent bursts of missing/duplicate video frames).

[LooneyJuice]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nicholas Steel:

This would also explain why the gameplay isn't as smooth feeling even though the FPS is better (or the same). The Windows Desktop Window Manager (DWM) has an abysmal vsync implementation that causes programs to often miss vblank.

Asked on reddit, got the same spiel about borderless window. It's a thing apparently. A pretty good giveaway is the lack of a flicker/hitch when changing from borderless to fullscreen. The only thing that pops up is the save icon on the top left.

It's not the end of the world from a technical standpoint I guess, but when it comes to an actual hardcore shooter, input lag is always a big no-no. And even though I know there would be people who don't notice it, back to back, the shooting feels crisper in fullscreen, always.

[De-M-oN]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MancSoulja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SixelAlexiS:

lol... you mad? with more fps your game is much responsive, even on 60hz... and if you play with no vsync (and with competitive fps you have to) you almost don't see tearing on 140fps vs 60-70fps...

The monitor has a set response time regardless of the frametime, Playing at high framerates wont change that. If this is what's important to you, go buy a 0ms monitor not a new GPU.

You talk ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If the monitor tears it has NOTHING to do with the input delay of your mouse, keyboard and so on. You mostly notice it with your mouseresponse times.... Test out yourself and you'll feel yourself how much ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you did just talk...