High Framerates with Vulkan but Stutters?

[Raditz]

Hey, guys. I tried the new Vulkan API since it just released, hoping for maybe improved graphics or slightly higher FPS to brag about, but after switching to the Vulkan API, I appeared to be getting 60 fps but it looked choppy. If course the 60 fps was with V-sync on, so I decided to run DOOM with the Vulkan API V-sync off, and with OpenGL 4.5 V-sync off.

Specs:
CPU: i5-6600k (Overclocked to 4.2ghz)
GPU: EVGA GTX 960 4GB SSC (Overclocked with +50mhz on core clock and +500mhz on memory clock)
RAM: 8GB DDR4 (Don't remember what frequency, but I don't think it matters)
MoBo: ASRock Z170M Extreme4
Case Type: Micro ATX

Settings:
Everything Ultra, 1080p resolution, and AA/Anistropic Filtering maxed out (TSAA 8x, Anistopic 16x).

FPS Readings (Done with the Steam overlay FPS monitor):
OpenGL:
Low: 84 fps
High: 101 fps

Vulkan:
Low: 95 fps
High: 101 fps

Looking at this you can see Vulkan didn't make much difference in FPS, but did somehow despite the FPS readings manage to make my game look choppy. If anyone has any suggestions, that'd be great. And before you ask, my graphics drivers for my card are up to date.

[Raditz]

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

Originally posted by Raditz:

I haven't experienced any screen tearing with this setting, but your monitor may be different. Adaptive v-sync also seems to work ok with Vulkan, but there's occasional stutter. Try adaptive if that's really a problem for you.

It has nothing to do with different monitors. If Vsync is off and theres no variable refresh tech in place you will have screen tearing. It's a mechanical certainty.
I have a 144hz Gsync display. If I disable vsync and gsync and play at 120+ fps like normal, there is very noticable screen tearing. There is screen tearing in absolutely every single game I play or have ever played if Vsync is off or at least there was untill I got G-sync. It's simply...how things work.

I didn't say it's a "problem for me". I'm saying turn off Vsync is a ridiculous suggestion. You will get screen tearing. If you claim you don't get screen tearing and don't have G-sync/Freesync, then you might want to get your eyes checked.
Plain and simple, no Vsync or variable refresh = screen tearing.

I have a TV for a monitor if that affects anything, but the only games I've ever observed screen tearing in with v-sync off are Skyrim and the original Dark Souls after installing the DSfix mod, but then again I don't usually mess with v-sync and just leave it on. And probably irrelevent, but I have 20/15 vision, so me having poor eyesight isn't a problem.

[Raditz]

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

Originally posted by Raditz:

I haven't experienced any screen tearing with this setting, but your monitor may be different. Adaptive v-sync also seems to work ok with Vulkan, but there's occasional stutter. Try adaptive if that's really a problem for you.

It has nothing to do with different monitors. If Vsync is off and theres no variable refresh tech in place you will have screen tearing. It's a mechanical certainty.
I have a 144hz Gsync display. If I disable vsync and gsync and play at 120+ fps like normal, there is very noticable screen tearing. There is screen tearing in absolutely every single game I play or have ever played if Vsync is off or at least there was untill I got G-sync. It's simply...how things work.

I didn't say it's a "problem for me". I'm saying turn off Vsync is a ridiculous suggestion. You will get screen tearing. If you claim you don't get screen tearing and don't have G-sync/Freesync, then you might want to get your eyes checked.
Plain and simple, no Vsync or variable refresh = screen tearing.

I'm not sure if DOOM does this, but there is a possibility that DOOM checks your monitor's refresh rate and makes sure to stay in sync with it regardless of your FPS, but like I said, I haven't noticed any tearing with v-sync off.

[Raditz]

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

Originally posted by Raditz:

I have a TV for a monitor if that affects anything, but the only games I've ever observed screen tearing in with v-sync off are Skyrim and the original Dark Souls after installing the DSfix mod, but then again I don't usually mess with v-sync and just leave it on. And probably irrelevent, but I have 20/15 vision, so me having poor eyesight isn't a problem.

You are arguing mechanical facts. Dunno what to say. A 60hz /120hz interolated TV will most certainly screen tear if Vsync is off.

Originally posted by Raditz:

I'm not sure if DOOM does this, but there is a possibility that DOOM checks your monitor's refresh rate and makes sure to stay in sync with it regardless of your FPS, but like I said, I haven't noticed any tearing with v-sync off.

What you are talking about is called variable refresh. ie: Gsync /Freesync. There is no such thing as a game that does it.

Well I'm not familiar with screen hardware, but I haven't observed any screen tearing. If you know as much as you claim to, what could be a reason as to why I'm not observing screen tearing?

[76561198026825120]

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

If Vsync is off and theres no variable refresh tech in place you will have screen tearing.

Stop spreading lies. If a software is causing screen tearing without vertical sync on, it's a garbage software.

Educate thyself: {LINK REMOVED}https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_buffering#Double_buffering_in_computer_graphics.

[Sephrax]

Originally posted by The Almighty.:

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

If Vsync is off and theres no variable refresh tech in place you will have screen tearing.

Stop spreading lies. If a software is causing screen tearing without vertical sync on, it's a garbage software.

Educate thyself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_buffering#Double_buffering_in_computer_graphics.

Vsync is by default double buffered in DX games. Only OpenGL can do triple buffering.
Main problem with double buffer is exactly what happens when your fps drops below refresh rate of your monitor and you only get half of the frames your monitor could render: 60 -> 30, 120 -> 60, 144 -> 72. Triple buffering fixes that but it still has Vsync's other problems. Gsync/Freesync works like triple buffered Vsync without Vsync's problems, most notably input lag.

[horrorizer]

You can play any game with vsync off and without screen tearing, just need to use nvidia inspector or its AMD alternative to set the FPS limit in the game to be the same as the monitor refresh ratio.
No magic there.

[SMC]

Originally posted by 3dfxMathesar:

Originally posted by BassReactor:

AMD released a new driver specifically for Doom running Vulkan but it still stutters horribly at the same settings, but runs smooth in Open GL

I'm not getting any stutter whatsoever with Vulkan and AMD 16.7.2 driver (R9 290X) 1080P Ultra preset.

Yeah zero lag or stutter here with everything max including nightmare textures set on my R9 290 getting about 80 - 115 fps tho only 1080p. Up from about 55fps on OGL. Ultra textures i get 130fps avg. I've also got my CPU cores "unparked" which was an issue previously with Mantle in Battlefield 4 causing stutters.

[76561198026825120]

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

my tech illterate friend..

Your tech illiterate friend had an experience with using Windows' GDI to draw on the screen. And had to implement double buffering to make animations smooth.

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

Double and tripple buffering are implementations of Vsync!!

ok.

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

or you got the IQ of a peanut.

Did you get so butthurt that you made a wall of text and had to resort to insulting me? Nice.

Really old games, like Q3A, don't even have the option to turn vertical sync on. Do they cause screen tearing? Not at all.

[sevredox]

I have a GTX 970 in my desktop and a GTX 970m in my laptop. I have noticed great improvements with vulcan especially on my laptop. Not just higher FPS but also less FPS fluctuation. One thing I notice... not sure if it is applicable to you or not, in the Nvidia Control Panel the option to force Triple Buffering is now grayed out. I had this enabled before, and it looked like it was enabled but grayed out and it seemed to copy my settings over to the new vulcan .exe. I just clicked to Restore the settings. I have completely disabled vsync and the one remarkable thing I am noticing now is that with OpenGL I had screen tearing without vsync. Under Vulcan I just leave vsync disabled and I have no screen tearing whatsoever.

[Johnny 5]

Originally posted by horrorizer:

You can play any game with vsync off and without screen tearing, just need to use nvidia inspector or its AMD alternative to set the FPS limit in the game to be the same as the monitor refresh ratio.
No magic there.

I assure you this does not work, I've tried capping Doom to 60fps (60Hz monitor) and the screen tearing was actually more intrusive at 60fps vs. letting the framerate run uncapped (true story).

Luckily with Vulkan I've been able to run solid 60fps with Vsync enabled. (R9 290X)

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

Originally posted by sevredox:

IUnder Vulcan I just leave vsync disabled and I have no screen tearing whatsoever.

Impossible.

Actually, in borderless windowed, under AMD/Vulkan/Win10, there is not visible tearing that I can detect.

Not saying that is the case for him, but I am very sensitive to it, and it isn't present. I haven't found the reason yet.

[Super Bambaspis]

Hey peeps, just throwing my deets in to the ring:

Nvidia GTX 1070
AMD 8350 CPU
16GB 1600 mhz
windows 10 64 bit
not installed on SSD

120hz 1050p monitor
also tested on 60hz 1200p monitor.
full screen
max settings

No micro stutters at all, smooth as anything. Also, no out of the ordinary input lag with v-sync turned on. I can't replicate the input lag issue - tested all v-sync options, and tripple buffering. Fast sync, btw, is fantastic.

I'll also point out that I have a good eye for input lag and stutter.

In the scene I tested:
OpenGL: Min fps 87 Max 142
Vulkan: Min 139 Max 181

All good on my Nvidia card - something else must be going on your rigs.

[SRS]

I had the same problem as the opening post with a GTX 970. Turning off the Steam overlay seemed to help for me.

[Raditz]

Originally posted by The Almighty.:

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

my tech illterate friend..

Your tech illiterate friend had an experience with using Windows' GDI to draw on the screen. And had to implement double buffering to make animations smooth.

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

Double and tripple buffering are implementations of Vsync!!

ok.

Originally posted by Insertprofilenamehere:

or you got the IQ of a peanut.

Did you get so butthurt that you made a wall of text and had to resort to insulting me? Nice.

Really old games, like Q3A, don't even have the option to turn vertical sync on. Do they cause screen tearing? Not at all.

Reading all these arguments back and forth gave me a headache, so I decided to look up more information on v-sync. It turns out, v-sync is really only noticeable at high vertical movement speeds. So unless you flip your mouse around all over the place in an impractical way, it won't show up as often, and be less noticeable. The other way it's very noticable is if the FPS in-game is about 33% faster than the refresh rate of your monitor, or 33% slower. You can mitigate screen tearing by making an FPS cap close to the refresh rate of your monitor, for example, 62 FPS on a 60hz refresh rate, but if you make them exact, screen tearing will be a lot more prominent. V-sync in essence is simply only needed if you want absolutely no screen tearing, and there are plenty of other ways to mitigate it. In my case with stutter on Vulcan, that's a problem with the V-sync not quite working correctly, because the stuttering wouldn't happen if the frames were updating to the screen at the speed they're supposed to. Perhaps V-sync works right on another card. Not the case with mine. And some people are more sensitive to screen tearing than others. I'm going to assume that Insertprofilenamehere is very sensitive to it. and that's why he is here stressing the importance of V-sync. However, V-sync is really only required if you notice any screen tearing. Out of sight, out of mind. And if you actually read through my original solution, I said that IF THERE IS SCREEN TEARING, you can try turning V-sync on both in-game and in the Nvidia control panel. Or you can try adaptive V-sync (sadly AMD users don't have this option). And that's only if you had the stuttering problem in the first place. If you didn't have the problem in the first place, and V-sync works just fine, good for you. Now please let the people that do have this problem try this suggestion to see if it makes a difference. If not, oh well. It fixed it for me, and it may not work for everyone else. And in case you didn't already infer this from my post, V-sync is really just preference, and not required to play any game. If you're sensitive to screen tearing, turn it on. If not, up to you to leave it on or off.

[Homeless.]

Shadows make me stutter, remove self shadow and lower shadow settings and see how it works.