Samuel Hayden is not a villian

[senate]

Anyone else agree ? He's pretty much supporting humanities expansion into space with argent energy. He should take Olivias position since he seems to be unaffected by demonic corruption. If it all works out we farm Argent energy from Hell, and do it cleanly without any level 1-3 contamination events.

[CoffeeCup]

Nope.
He should have, and probably has, seen this coming, but thought "screw it" and went through with it anyway.

[stachenov]

I don't object to his research, and I agree that progress has its cost. Still, he is too self-righteous and obviously failed as Olivia's boss. He said that he is willing to take full responsibility for the incident, but is he really? Because if he is, he should probably resign from his position and stick to science instead. Otherwise he is just being a hypocrite. And that's exactly what I think he is.

I really want to see him in a boss fight in the next game.

That being said, I think Doomguy went too far with destruction of energy production. But then again, are those filters that hard to rebuild?

P. S. Oh, and I totally forgot—I hate it how Samuel installs that tethering thing. And he said to Olivia that he basically treats Doomguy as his property. That is not being a villain?

[Ursus Rex]

Hayden is your typical "genius that doesn't give a damn about safety/morality" so he's a vilain in my book.

I'm pretty sure the ending indicates that he will open a new portal to Hell (Probably on Earth).


But there is one thing odd about Hayden. Did you guys noticed the commercials in the entrance of the Advanced Research Facility? There is a commercial about the UAC's latest servant robots... And the robots look exactly like Hayden.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=694092580

It would be a cool twist if Hayden isn't really Hayden but an A.I. pretending to be him.

[stachenov]

I don't think so. Have you seen VEGA? If that what it takes to create a decent AI, how are you going to cram it into a human-sized robot? Unless there is a VEGA-2 hidden somewhere that controls Samuel's body remotely, of course.

[senate]

He's not a villian. He's solving an energy crisis the only way that's possible in his universe. We use fossil fuels and pollute the earth. He uses Argent Energy and contaminates mars with demons sometimes.

[Ursus Rex]

Postat inițial de stachenov:

I don't think so. Have you seen VEGA? If that what it takes to create a decent AI, how are you going to cram it into a human-sized robot? Unless there is a VEGA-2 hidden somewhere that controls Samuel's body remotely, of course.

VEGA has a whole different function, though. It must manage the UAC complex on Mars (And probably the facilities on Phobos and Deimos too).

A UAC robot only has its own body to care about. It wouldn't need much computing power.

[stachenov]

Postat inițial de Taxi123:

He's not a villian. He's solving an energy crisis the only way that's possible in his universe. We use fossil fuels and pollute the earth. He uses Argent Energy and contaminates mars with demons sometimes.

The fact that he is doing something useful and reasonable doesn't automatically mean he's not a villain.

[Lucius Caesar]

He's more misguided than evil. It's pretty much your typical "antagonist is messing with forces he doesn't understand" situation. He thinks he can control the hell energy... he can't.

he's an a-hole regardless of whether he's evil or not though

[Nade Wilson]

Nope, he's a villain. Humanity can survive without artificial energy, it did so for thousands of years. You know what it can't survive with? Demons running around everywhere.

He had to know something like this happening wasn't a matter of "if" but "when" and easily brushes it off like "whoops, my bad, it's cool though we only lost 60k people no big deal."

No point in saving humanity(which again they didn't absolutely need this to survive) in the short term if you are DOOMing it in the long term.

[Kain]

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
- Fortune Cookie message at China Johnny's.

[Filthy Cur]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, in this case it's literal. Hayden believes the ends justify the means, but if part of the ends is a demon invasion of earth then are the means really worth it? I found it odd at how oblivious he was to what Olivia was doing with her cult, you'd think a guy with his resources that he would of kept that in check. Almost like he did know, and allowed her to proceed with her hijinx. We saw in Doom 2 what a demon invasion of earth ended up as, the last of humanity buggering off of earth. Also consider what Hayden uses as his energy source, it's possible he's corrupted as well and could of been for some time. He could of been flat out lying to Doomguy, and using him to get control of the Crucible from the start.

I think Samuel will either become, or wake up the Icon of Sin. I didn't trust him from the beginning, he reminded me of Dr. Betruger from Doom 3.

[senate]

You guys forget that if it wasn't for Samuel Hayden than Doomguy couldn't do much of what he did.

[Kain]

The thing is, Hayden is not afraid of breaking some eggs, even he he didn't know about the cult, he certainly knew about the human experiments, capturing demons, even a high class demon like the Cyber Demon, turning people into revenants, he knew about those tests.

And yeah,Earth, colonies, sectors, I'm not sure how this universe of the game is divided, is sure flooded with Hell energy, 'filtered' energy, but anyone knows it's far easier to taint something than it is to clean it.

To be honest, I think he wanted the crucible from the start, he just couldn't steal it from the demons, so he knew Olivia was weak, he knew she would open a portal and they would need the Doomguy. When you first meet Hayden in person if you look at some of the tablets in his office you'll see a picture of the Crucible in sword form.

When Doomguy touches the stone and has hallucinations about the Crucible, Hayden, suddenly was like 'Ohhh that thing', like he was mildly surprised, which, he wasn't.

Anyway, still on the lore, but about the Doomslayer origin, I think he was a Sentinel, he's certainly treated with deference by them, also, if you read the loading times on the mission you're about to get the Crucible, it reads something like "You're going to get, what was yours and was stolen", not sure if it was phrased that way, but it told something of the like.

Also, I think the demon that helps him was the D'nuriam that betrayed his people, his reward was getting his loved one back as a demon, maybe he didn't like it and felt the need to betray the demons too.

[Ursus Rex]

Postat inițial de Filthy Cur:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, in this case it's literal. Hayden believes the ends justify the means, but if part of the ends is a demon invasion of earth then are the means really worth it? I found it odd at how oblivious he was to what Olivia was doing with her cult, you'd think a guy with his resources that he would of kept that in check. Almost like he did know, and allowed her to proceed with her hijinx. We saw in Doom 2 what a demon invasion of earth ended up as, the last of humanity buggering off of earth. Also consider what Hayden uses as his energy source, it's possible he's corrupted as well and could of been for some time. He could of been flat out lying to Doomguy, and using him to get control of the Crucible from the start.

I think he knew about the cult. Maybe not all the details and how much Olivia was corrupted by the demons, but he knew there were rituals and experiments on demons.

I'm pretty sure Hayden knew from the start that to get control of the Argent Energy they'd have to use black magic and forbidden rituals.

Postat inițial de Taxi123:

You guys forget that if it wasn't for Samuel Hayden than Doomguy couldn't do much of what he did.

Sure,then, when the invasion was stopped, he immediatly captured the Doomguy.
Hayden was using the Doomguy all along. Both to clean Olivia's (and his) mess and to get the Crucible.

[Caaros, The King of Chaos]

Samuel Hayden is not really a villian because mostly he doesn't have much of an idea what he's dealing with. The Doom Marine has been fighting demons for a very long time, longer than Hayden has even known that hell was a reality, thus the Doom Marine, the shooty punchy walking armory, actually understands hell far more than Hayden, the robotic genius scientist.

This is why the Doom Marine goes out of his way to break anything argent energy related. He knows that even if the demons could be contained, messing with the energies of that realm without understanding every aspect of hell would never end well.