Not really a DOOM game [review/opinion]

[DOFR]

But a great game nonetheless [clickbaiting 101]

So before we get to the part were everyone tells me that I've not played the original and don't know what DOOM is about if I think so, let me elaborate first.

New DOOM (SP) plays like an arena fps in its finest. It is punishing, it is fast, it is fun. You roam through the map freely searching for secrets barely encountering any enemies untill you get to a specific location (usually a large open area aka arena) were you are going to face a huge wave of hellish beasts that will crawl out of every hole and spawn right behind you. Keep moving, keep shooting, keep walking over demon corpses to pick up health and ammo - that is the only way you will survive. It is a breath of fresh air, just like the Shadow Warrior was a few years before. And though I love Shadow Warrior, I'm going to say that the way difficulty is done in DOOM feels much better (instead of bullet sponge enemies, you die as fast as a fireball hitting your face). New DOOM, is a great old-school game deserving of a 8/10 rating at very least with the only issue probably being the length and MP (but MP is a topic for another day).

With all that being, originals were nothing like that. And when I'm talking about originals I mean: Ultimate DOOM, DOOM 2, TNT Evilution, Plutonia Experiment and maybe even Heretic. Even whe you use KB+M in dooms of old you only need to switch the Fast Monsters on and it once again plays the same (or at least the feeling is the same). You install Brutal DOOM or Project Brutality? Great, everything changes. Reloads, weapons, enemies, gore... But it is still the same old DOOM. So why is that? The answer is simple - map design.

Many seem to neglect the effect of game design on gameplay and overall experience, but it is not the best way to go about it. Even DOOM 3 with few minor adjustments when played on original DOOM maps or maps done by people who know how to make a doom map (In Hell mode for example) plays like a great doom game. That is due to how map works and how enemies are allocated on the map. Old DOOMs were mazes (aside from few level obviously). They were big mazes filled with hazards and monsters around every corner. They were slowly draining your health and ammo. Secrets weren't just there as an easter eggs or leveling up system, they were the tools for your survival. Each map was its own game that you could play through starting with only a pistol in your hand. New DOOM? Not that at all. Once again, you find secrets without facing much danger, get to the area with monster and proceed to destroy the waves untill all of them are dead. Is it bad? Nope, it is fun and reminds of old school games (Quake, Serious Sam), but the DOOM is not one of these games.

It feels like, that after the critisism of DOOM 3 ID over compensated and went so far back from "horror maze with jump scares and not that much enemies" that it landed as far from dooms of old as DOOM 3, just on the other side. Is it more old-school, hell yeah. But once again not really a DOOM.

With all that being said. If you are a fan of arena SP shooter - go ahead and buy the game, as I did. It will be a blast, it will be fun, it will be hard (if you'll choose it to be). But I'm still going to wait and hope for there to be another game that will scratch that DOOM itch I have... Still there are new maps for Project Brutality being made every day, so I won't be suffering ^_^

Thank you for reading

[Xuhybrid]

I wonder if they'll ever relaunch a Heretic/Hexen game.

[DOFR]

Escrito originalmente por Xuhybrid:

Escrito originalmente por DOFR:

It is good for the kind of game it is, that I agree on. I will disagree on a similar playstyle though, but I wont start an argument over that if you dont mind (everyone can just go and play the old DOOM to check that).

Yeah, it is one of the few good fps games of our days. There were others though, they just didnt have such a big name as DOOM.

Well during the originals there were still parts that had down time while u move between areas, or figure out the puzzle and direction to go. What more of a playstyle is there to the original games that im missing here? Move around an area avoiding demons while shooting them?

You are missing this part -

They were big mazes filled with hazards and monsters around every corner. They were slowly draining your health and ammo. Secrets weren't just there as an easter eggs or leveling up system, they were the tools for your survival. Each map was its own game that you could play through starting with only a pistol in your hand.

Downtimes were only present in few areas and spots that you have already cleared (even then not always). Puzzles and directions to go were more important and meaningful. The new DOOM's maps are pretty straight forward if you are not trying to get all the secrets just for the sake of them and there are barely any enemies outside of arenas.

[DOFR]

Escrito originalmente por Dirk the Daring:

I think it totally fits as a DOOM game. To me it never had a horror aspect because the character was always in the position to kill any enemy he saw(He was never defenseless). There was nothing to fear when you had gigantic weapons that mowed down dozens of demons at a time as you speed across levels.

I dont think Ive mentioned a horror aspect to be a part of old DOOMs though. And fighting with a pistol against a pinky or with shotgun against a Pain Elemental/Baron Of Hell was giving me a feel of being defensless. I guess that one is more about personal experience.

[Nasher]

But in the old ones there were traps and "monster closets". It's all quiet, until you collect a weapon or press a button and then all hell breakes loose :D

Those are kind of the Doom signature.

[Xuhybrid]

I wouldn't say there were too few enemies though. You're making it sound like you go 5 minutes walking through a level without encountering stuff to kill, and that's simply not true. With regards to the puzzle/maze nature of the level design, i can't argue too much against that point. I don't think it was a focus, it's still here in this game, and it doesn't remove any enjoyment because it's missing. The mazes weren't hard enough for me to miss them.

[RvB Churchaboose]

I'm just glad they have a decent singleplayer. My biggest fear was a weak mutliplayer trying to live off its name. Long live singleplayer games!

[Xuhybrid]

Yeah the developer of the multiplayer ruined peoples opinion of id's singleplayer.
It was a terrible idea to both release a beta for MP only, and then not give out review copies.

[DOFR]

Escrito originalmente por Vamphaery:

I would say they marry contemporary, sprawling level design, with certain sections intended specifically to homage Doom. E.g. the Foundry level. Huge, multi-tiered map. But there are sections within it that literally made me say out loud, "Damn, that's the doomiest hallway I've ever seen." Every level so far has had some element of that. Whether it be the narrow corridors with sharp 90 degree turns, or the wide hallways with low ceilings.

I feel like giving the enemies modern AI behaviors and animations (the ability to leap up to the platform you're on, climb walls, etc.) necessities fundamentally different level design, and so there was really no way a game made in 2016 - at least not one made up to today's standards and not intentionally holding itself to classic Doom's design constraints - would ever feel like Doom in the purest sense.

Instead, I feel like the game is meant to evoke Doom strongly (which for me it does, continually) while feeling fresh at the same time. I feel the question and challenge put to id was, "How do we make a game that's evocative of Doom, has the same feelings of tense, adrenaline, reflex based, speedy, frantic combat, but using modern mechanics and level design?" That's not an easy balance to strike, and I'd say they achieved that. But it's going to be divisive for precisely that reason imo.

I see your point. Though strangely enough improved AI and animations actually kinda work in Project Brutality (they are far from perfect, but it is a mode after all). I think it is possible to create a maze of death kind of map for modern times, I bet moders will manage to do that with new DOOM even, just give them time.

I feel like that though I love the game, it didnt change my expectation for a DOOM title... But that is fine, since as I said before old DOOMs with mods are still there for us to enjoy.

[Orion1189]

Seems like the closest approximation of a modern Doom game to me, and I'm a HUGE fan of the franchise (well 1 and 2 anyway). Level design is different because they massively overhauled your movement capabilities. You couldn't even jump in OG Doom, and now you can double jump and grab ledges. It works well and still feels and looks like an updated take on the originals. In any case, it's light years ahead of Doom 3 in that sense.

[DOFR]

Escrito originalmente por Xuhybrid:

I wouldn't say there were too few enemies though. You're making it sound like you go 5 minutes walking through a level without encountering stuff to kill, and that's simply not true. With regards to the puzzle/maze nature of the level design, i can't argue too much against that point. I don't think it was a focus, it's still here in this game, and it doesn't remove any enjoyment because it's missing. The mazes weren't hard enough for me to miss them.

My bad if made it sound like that. My point is that the enemies in-between sections are more of a filler for action rather an actuall hazard/danger (aside from few sections obviously). In old DOOM you literaly had a demon around every second corner that you didnt yet check and though there were huge waves and arenas, the hazards were more so split across the map with smaller bursts of action.

[DOFR]

Escrito originalmente por Orion1189:

Seems like the closest approximation of a modern Doom game to me, and I'm a HUGE fan of the franchise (well 1 and 2 anyway). Level design is different because they massively overhauled your movement capabilities. You couldn't even jump in OG Doom, and now you can double jump and grab ledges. It works well and still feels and looks like an updated take on the originals. In any case, it's light years ahead of Doom 3 in that sense.

Well, old DOOMs can be played with jumps and even ledge grabbing, that only badly effects areas that were made to be uncreachable but now are not. But that is an easy fix.

[VicVic]

This is a new Doom game created with total respect for the past games in my opinion it has the atmosphere, feel, fun, fear many demon's secrets etc. In our time of gaming this I feel is a perfect reboot of the franchise. It could be bettter if it had full game coop but snap map may take care of that as well. I rarely have as much fun with a day one release triple AAA title as I did with this playing late into the night like I was a kid again. LOVE IT....

[z0di]

Guys, you just forgot a really important thing when you compare the original DOOM with DOOM3 or the new DOOM.

In times of the old DOOM, DOOM was revolutionary. And this "just" of it's engine written by all known jhon carmack itself. ID was(/is??) a leader of creating awefull grahical stuff. This games were more a graphicl/physics presentation than a game.

Today, 23 years after DOOM (a long time btw) we played A LOT of different games. I just want to say that you never can compare a old DOOM (1993) with the new DOOM (2016).
I know the feeling of the original DOOM, when we were happy to make our nullmodem connection working for play DOOM TOGETHER in SP mode ;).

Btw my short opinion about the MP discusses here on the steam plattfrom: old DOOM in MP was deathmatch and fun. new DOOM in MP is deathmatch and fun...isn't it? Just read my text above, u really can't compare old DOOM with new DOOM.

Sorry for my english, i'm a bit stoned ;)

btw, i didnt played the new DOOM yet, still downloading ;). I just know i will enjoy it a lot and when i just sometimes can be able to play in SP Mode together with a friend.....WE WANT/ARE COOP, guys ;)

[Orion1189]

Escrito originalmente por DOFR:

Escrito originalmente por Orion1189:

Seems like the closest approximation of a modern Doom game to me, and I'm a HUGE fan of the franchise (well 1 and 2 anyway). Level design is different because they massively overhauled your movement capabilities. You couldn't even jump in OG Doom, and now you can double jump and grab ledges. It works well and still feels and looks like an updated take on the originals. In any case, it's light years ahead of Doom 3 in that sense.

Well, old DOOMs can be played with jumps and even ledge grabbing, that only badly effects areas that were made to be uncreachable but now are not. But that is an easy fix.

I know you can add stuff in, but they weren't designed for it and it wasn't in the originals, which is all that really matters if we are talking about how this game compares to the others in the series.

[Xuhybrid]

Why can't you compare them? You presented no argument that proves they can't be compared.