Surround Sound Issues, Testing, and Solutions

[nightcabbage]

(For reference, I have a Creative Soundblaster X-Fi & Windows 7 hooked up to a 5.1 speaker system through the 3 analog outs.)

Issue: Only my front 2 L/R channels were outputting any sound when playing DOOM on my 5.1 setup.

Description: I noticed I was only getting sound out of my front 2 speakers when certain sounds would "disappear" as I was moving. In game I would turn so a sound was towards my back, but the sound would completely disappear (wouldn't even hear it in my front speakers), which made me believe something in the game thought it was supposed to output surround, yet I heard nothing coming out of my back 2 speakers so the sounds in that area wouldn't be audible. I also had nothing coming out of my center speaker, but that seemed less noticeable as the front facing sound was still coming from my left/right fronts. All my other games' surround sound was still working fine, and after double checking indeed I had "5.1 Speakers" selected in the Creative Console Launcher as appropriate.

Testing & Results: Someone mentioned that if you changed your speaker settings to 7.1 it would fix the issue. I tried this, and indeed I started to get sound coming from my back speakers. But I didn't like this "fix", since I figured I would actually still be losing some of the sound when games and other possible 7.1 sources would think my side surrounds were there, and there would be no speakers to receive the signal. So I kept looking. Found another solution that (partially) works for me. I went into Windows' "Playback Devices" > Speakers > Properties > Advanced. There my default format was set to 24 bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality). I've tried 2 other options: 24bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality) and 24 bit, 192000 Hz (Studio Quality). Both seem to work and gave me my back 2 channels, so I left it at the highest 192000 Hz. Unfortunately, the center channel speaker still doesn't output any sound in DOOM.

Final Result: Half fixed. Center channel speaker still outputs no sound, but front L/R and back L/R seem to be working appropriately in game. Not sure what else the 192000 Hz will affect though in terms of compatibility... hopefully nothing!

Conclusion: DOOM has some very odd sound issues they need to patch.

Just thought I'd leave the experience here for anyone else having the issue. I'd welcome any other advice, experience, or thoughts on the matter

[Nicholas Steel]

On my Creative X-Fi Extreme Music and Auzentech X-Fi Forte soundcards I prefered the Entertainment mode over the other modes, Crystalizer if you like how it sounds and the Classical EQ setting for everything.

I turned off Extra bass/Bass Boost and the other audio enhancements and had 2.1 and headphones, never a surround sound system.

Dunno about getting this game set up for surround sound, the fact that its support for it is seemingly broken probably explains why I get weird audio positioning in this game.

As for why I don't have a Creative or Auzentech soundcard anymore? Both of them failed within 2 to 3 years of their purchase date (and then Auzentech went out of business, so yay!). I might buy another soundcard when I upgrade my motherboard depending on how good the newer integrated audio solution sounds (Current integrated audio device is a Realtek ALC1200).

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by The KillSmith:

Oh, and I checked and the center channel is not reserved for dialogue in DOOM. It just isn't working! Gah.

Try using your onboard with optical out. If you have a Realtek, chances are it has DDL support.

And, if it's under 5 to 7 years old, it should support a higher sample rate than the X-Fi anyway.

[nightcabbage]

I have a 1st gen i5 with a midrange mobo, so I sort of doubt it. But I'll check.

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by The KillSmith:

I have a 1st gen i5 with a midrange mobo, so I sort of doubt it. But I'll check.

If it's Realtek, it's got better digital output. Those have done 192kHz for nearly a decade now, whereas X-Fi tops out at 96kHz. They have been DDL capable for around the same amount of time, but it isn't always active on midrange boards (there are modded DLLs for it if I recall though).

To be perfectly frank, you won't hear the difference between 96 and 192kHz unless you have exceptional ears and even better speaker or headphones, but the quality is theoretically better.

[Nicholas Steel]

Originally posted by The KillSmith:

I have a 1st gen i5 with a midrange mobo, so I sort of doubt it. But I'll check.

I have a first generation Intel i7 920 CPU, the motherboard I'm using comes with a Realtek ALC1200 and it supports 192Khz 24bit audio, unsure about DDL and such.

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by Nicholas Steel:

Originally posted by The KillSmith:

I have a 1st gen i5 with a midrange mobo, so I sort of doubt it. But I'll check.

I have a first generation Intel i7 920 CPU, the motherboard I'm using comes with a Realtek ALC1200 and it supports 192Khz 24bit audio, unsure about DDL and such.

This should help with that...

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/unlocked-realtek-hd-audio-drivers-with-dolby-digital-live-and-dts-interactive.193148/

[Nicholas Steel]

Originally posted by Salamand3r:

Originally posted by Nicholas Steel:

I have a first generation Intel i7 920 CPU, the motherboard I'm using comes with a Realtek ALC1200 and it supports 192Khz 24bit audio, unsure about DDL and such.

This should help with that...

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/unlocked-realtek-hd-audio-drivers-with-dolby-digital-live-and-dts-interactive.193148/

Sorry, I meant I'm unsure of what frequencies it supports in DDL etc. audio modes, not whether or not it supports DDL.

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by Nicholas Steel:

Originally posted by Salamand3r:

This should help with that...

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/unlocked-realtek-hd-audio-drivers-with-dolby-digital-live-and-dts-interactive.193148/

Sorry, I meant I'm unsure of what frequencies it supports in DDL etc. audio modes, not whether or not it supports DDL.

Ah, in that case -

"Dolby Digital Live (DDL) is a real-time encoding technology for interactive media such as video games. It converts any audio signals on a PC or game console into a 5.1-channel 16-bit/48 kHz Dolby Digital format at 640 kbit/s and transports it via a single S/PDIF cable." (source[en.wikipedia.org])

It should sound significantly better than the analog outputs, assuming that your receiver has a decent DAC (it should). Assuming you are using Dolby surround on your reciever, don't be alarmed by the seemingly low bitrate - that's actually higher than the reciever handles Dolby internally, so you won't be losing quality there.

("your" referring to the OP)

[jordyexists]

Originally posted by Salamand3r:

Originally posted by Nicholas Steel:

Sorry, I meant I'm unsure of what frequencies it supports in DDL etc. audio modes, not whether or not it supports DDL.

Ah, in that case -

"Dolby Digital Live (DDL) is a real-time encoding technology for interactive media such as video games. It converts any audio signals on a PC or game console into a 5.1-channel 16-bit/48 kHz Dolby Digital format at 640 kbit/s and transports it via a single S/PDIF cable." (source[en.wikipedia.org])

It should sound significantly better than the analog outputs, assuming that your receiver has a decent DAC (it should). Assuming you are using Dolby surround on your reciever, don't be alarmed by the seemingly low bitrate - that's actually higher than the reciever handles Dolby internally, so you won't be losing quality there.

("your" referring to the OP)

This is the sort of set-up I use (Realtek onboard sound, optical out cable to receiver to 5.1 speakers with the unlocked Dolby/DTS drivers)... But I can also confirm that on this set up there is still no center channel audio in DOOM.
Front, rear and subwoofers work fine and the center channel also works fine in other games/listening to music/watching video/etc...

Salamand3r, do you get center channel audio in DOOM through your set-up?

I can also confirm the sound quality is great, but getting the unlocked drivers to install properly is a bit of a pain.

EDIT: I just tested it again, and I was wrong about the center channel not working. There is indeed some sound coming out of it, but it is very small, atmospheric additions, like blowing wind, the crackle of fire, or the "squish" of a demon being dismembered directly in front of you.

It's hard to notice without putting your ear directly up to the center speaker, as they tastefully chose to use the center speaker to color the sound rather than over-power the right and left speakers.

[nightcabbage]

So this is embarrassing... my Creative drivers weren't up to date. I installed a newer version and it seems to have fixed the issue with 48kHz not outputting sound to the back speakers. So now I can select any of the qualities, and the back speakers work. Not sure which is "best" due to native content and conversion to my selection of output but whatever.

However, the center channel issue persists. I've tried a few more things, like turning off CMSSS-3D (which should only apply to stereo but what the heck..), and that had no effect. Similar to what jordyexists said on this thread, after listening very, very closely, I'm almost convinced there's a very low volume ambient sound coming from the center channel, barely audible. This could just be a reflection of sound from my L/R front channels off my back wall though. I think I'll do more testing later by perhaps unplugging my L/R speakers entirely.

Back to the discussion of audio options: I checked and my mobo has no optical out, so until I get a new motherboard there will be no testing DDL audio from that. (May eventually get a ASRock Fatal1ty Gaming Z170 Gaming K6+ which has an optical out and Realtek ALC1150... though I don't know much about that.) My Creative card I use now is an X-Fi Platinum, which has an optical out on the front bay. I'm going to test that output into my Yamaha RX-V365 receiver soon as opposed to the multi-channel out (assuming that receiver can decode DDL/DTS connect). However, right now I'm not seeing any options in my Creative audio control panel or console launcher related to encoding or DDL or DTS connect options. I tried installing the Creative Dolby Digital Live pack you linked to, but it says no supported device found. Perhaps that install is for Titanium versions of the card only, but I can't find a version anywhere on Creative's site that's for the Platinum version.

If I can figure out how to get that to work, I wonder if some of the other enhancements like Crystalizer, CMSS-3D, EAX effects, etc will still work and be applied prior to encoding into DDL/DTS-Connect.

In terms of whether or not, when I upgrade my computer, I should use a new Creative card like the ZxR as opposed to DDL/DTS-Connect out from the integrated Realtek... wouldn't I want to use the ZxR if the DACs are better quality than my receiver's? Because the specs on those look pretty good.

[Nicholas Steel]

Intel are releasing a new motherboard chipset (and new CPU's) later this year for motherboard manufacturers to utilize in new motherboard designs, I'd wait for those new motherboards before considering upgrading as they offer more PCI-E lanes which will improve performance (and video card SLI/Crossfire configurations) if you were to get multiple SSD's.

The new motherboards should be backwards compatible with current CPU's.

[Salamand3r-]

The DACs on a Yamaha receiver are almost guaranteed to be better than the ZxR.

I'll do some looking into it though when I get home and post links here.

[WimpMiester]

I'm using a PCIe SB X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro and Windows 7 64-bit (24-bit, 48K output) and have no sound issues with Doom. Have latest drivers (2. 40. 8). Using DTS Connect (Toslink) with Logitech Z906 5.1 DTS speakers. Try changing the Digital Dolby output to Dolby Digilta Live! and DTC Connect in the creative mixer settings. Sometimes this setting doesn't take. Changing between them usually resets it. Also, only use DTS Connect if you have DTS Speakers/Receiver. Other wise use Dolby Digital Live!.

[jordyexists]

Originally posted by The KillSmith:

So this is embarrassing... my Creative drivers weren't up to date. I installed a newer version and it seems to have fixed the issue with 48kHz not outputting sound to the back speakers. So now I can select any of the qualities, and the back speakers work. Not sure which is "best" due to native content and conversion to my selection of output but whatever.

However, the center channel issue persists. I've tried a few more things, like turning off CMSSS-3D (which should only apply to stereo but what the heck..), and that had no effect. Similar to what jordyexists said on this thread, after listening very, very closely, I'm almost convinced there's a very low volume ambient sound coming from the center channel, barely audible. This could just be a reflection of sound from my L/R front channels off my back wall though. I think I'll do more testing later by perhaps unplugging my L/R speakers entirely.

Back to the discussion of audio options: I checked and my mobo has no optical out, so until I get a new motherboard there will be no testing DDL audio from that. (May eventually get a ASRock Fatal1ty Gaming Z170 Gaming K6+ which has an optical out and Realtek ALC1150... though I don't know much about that.) My Creative card I use now is an X-Fi Platinum, which has an optical out on the front bay. I'm going to test that output into my Yamaha RX-V365 receiver soon as opposed to the multi-channel out (assuming that receiver can decode DDL/DTS connect). However, right now I'm not seeing any options in my Creative audio control panel or console launcher related to encoding or DDL or DTS connect options. I tried installing the Creative Dolby Digital Live pack you linked to, but it says no supported device found. Perhaps that install is for Titanium versions of the card only, but I can't find a version anywhere on Creative's site that's for the Platinum version.

If I can figure out how to get that to work, I wonder if some of the other enhancements like Crystalizer, CMSS-3D, EAX effects, etc will still work and be applied prior to encoding into DDL/DTS-Connect.

In terms of whether or not, when I upgrade my computer, I should use a new Creative card like the ZxR as opposed to DDL/DTS-Connect out from the integrated Realtek... wouldn't I want to use the ZxR if the DACs are better quality than my receiver's? Because the specs on those look pretty good.

It's hard to monitor the center speaker when in combat, but I've also noticed that gun-fire and weapon sounds are also played through the center channel. I don't think this behavior is a bug, but a feature.

I will say that voice-over doesn't seem to come out of my center channel, either.

Again, it seems like a an audio design choice to use the center channel to color the sound rather than over-power the left and right speakers, giving more of a 'vivid' sound environment.

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by jordyexists:

Again, it seems like a an audio design choice to use the center channel to color the sound rather than over-power the left and right speakers, giving more of a 'vivid' sound environment.

Well that would be kind of nice - more in line with my personal thoughts.

I despise the center channel in surround, for the exact reasons you mention - it is almost impossible to perfectly balance it not to overpower L/R.

9/10 times, I will leave the center out and let my reciever split it between L/R.