Surround Sound Issues, Testing, and Solutions

[nightcabbage]

(For reference, I have a Creative Soundblaster X-Fi & Windows 7 hooked up to a 5.1 speaker system through the 3 analog outs.)

Issue: Only my front 2 L/R channels were outputting any sound when playing DOOM on my 5.1 setup.

Description: I noticed I was only getting sound out of my front 2 speakers when certain sounds would "disappear" as I was moving. In game I would turn so a sound was towards my back, but the sound would completely disappear (wouldn't even hear it in my front speakers), which made me believe something in the game thought it was supposed to output surround, yet I heard nothing coming out of my back 2 speakers so the sounds in that area wouldn't be audible. I also had nothing coming out of my center speaker, but that seemed less noticeable as the front facing sound was still coming from my left/right fronts. All my other games' surround sound was still working fine, and after double checking indeed I had "5.1 Speakers" selected in the Creative Console Launcher as appropriate.

Testing & Results: Someone mentioned that if you changed your speaker settings to 7.1 it would fix the issue. I tried this, and indeed I started to get sound coming from my back speakers. But I didn't like this "fix", since I figured I would actually still be losing some of the sound when games and other possible 7.1 sources would think my side surrounds were there, and there would be no speakers to receive the signal. So I kept looking. Found another solution that (partially) works for me. I went into Windows' "Playback Devices" > Speakers > Properties > Advanced. There my default format was set to 24 bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality). I've tried 2 other options: 24bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality) and 24 bit, 192000 Hz (Studio Quality). Both seem to work and gave me my back 2 channels, so I left it at the highest 192000 Hz. Unfortunately, the center channel speaker still doesn't output any sound in DOOM.

Final Result: Half fixed. Center channel speaker still outputs no sound, but front L/R and back L/R seem to be working appropriately in game. Not sure what else the 192000 Hz will affect though in terms of compatibility... hopefully nothing!

Conclusion: DOOM has some very odd sound issues they need to patch.

Just thought I'd leave the experience here for anyone else having the issue. I'd welcome any other advice, experience, or thoughts on the matter

[Salamand3r-]

Some people have reported that installing ALchemy or the DDL pack for Xfi cards have helped these issues.

That being said, id can't be expected to support hardware that is long past EOL now. They may fix the common Xfi issues, but I doubt it.

[nightcabbage]

I just tested ALchemy and it made no difference. The default 48000 Hz setting still only produced sound from the front L/R speakers, and the higher settings remained unchanged with L/R and surrounds, but no Center channel sound.

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by The KillSmith:

I just tested ALchemy and it made no difference. The default 48000 Hz setting still only produced sound from the front L/R speakers, and the higher settings remained unchanged with L/R and surrounds, but no Center channel sound.

Apparently, it needs to be set to 24-bit, 44.1kHz in order to work.

Bug with X-fi cards it looks like (and some other surround solutions).

https://steamcommunity.com/app/379720/discussions/0/357286119105506055/

[nightcabbage]

I tried setting it to 44100 Hz and it has the same affect as 96000 or 192000... the back channels work but the center channel does not.

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by The KillSmith:

I tried setting it to 44100 Hz and it has the same affect as 96000 or 192000... the back channels work but the center channel does not.

Interesting.

Do you have to option to use an optical out with DDL or DTS NEO instead of analog outputs?

I'm just trying to eliminate possibilities here.

Edit: Just also out of curiousity - have to tested the center channel when something like a Hayden voice over is playing? I've seen a few games that take center being the "dialog" channel very literally.

[nightcabbage]

Yes, I can use an optical out. But I don't think the X-Fi does live re-encoding for real time surround in games into a format a receiver could accept... it would just do a bitstream out for Dolby Digital/DTS codecs in DVDs/Blu-Rays. (I think newer gen Creative cards do what you're speaking of, and I have no idea if that would solve the issue or not, but my guess is not, since those are just re-encoding the channels that would be going to your speakers anyway and letting the receiver decode that mix.)

Interesting idea: that the game may reserve center channel for certain dialog. I'm pretty sure I was paying attention during a Hayden voiceover, but I'll need to test that now that I'm actively thinking of it!

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by The KillSmith:

Yes, I can use an optical out. But I don't think the X-Fi does live re-encoding for real time surround in games into a format a receiver could accept... it would just do a bitstream out for Dolby Digital/DTS codecs in DVDs/Blu-Rays. (I think newer gen Creative cards do what you're speaking of, and I have no idea if that would solve the issue or not, but my guess is not, since those are just re-encoding the channels that would be going to your speakers anyway and letting the receiver decode that mix.)

Interesting idea: that the game may reserve center channel for certain dialog. I'm pretty sure I was paying attention during a Hayden voiceover, but I'll need to test that now that I'm actively thinking of it.

X-Fi does active re-encoding for Dolby Digital for sure, and I am relatively sure for DTS Connect (depending on the X-Fi variant) -

http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=68520

You need the DDL pack - for Titanium cards, I believe it is free.

http://support.creative.com/Downloads/searchdownloads.aspx?strString=DDL_PCAPP_LB_3_00_06.exe&ShowDetais=%22%20rel=%22nofollow

You need to purchase it as an add-on otherwise.

I thought that Creative had stopped charging for it (since it's kind of a ♥♥♥♥ move, like their old proprietary-ish SPDIF optical connectors), so your mileage may vary.

Stupid moves like that (and lack of real support) is why my X-Fis have been junked, and my Recon3D is only in my PC becuase it looks cool.

[nightcabbage]

Thanks for the info. I need to look into that.

(I've actually been considering the Creative ZxR. Haven't pulled the trigger yet because of the price.)

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by The KillSmith:

Thanks for the info. I need to look into that.

(I've actually been considering the Creative ZxR. Haven't pulled the trigger yet because of the price.)

Do you mind if I ask what it is you are looking for out of a sound card?

The ZxR is actually lesser than many onboard sound solutions now, and it really isn't worth the price.

There are other options, especially in that price range, that are vastly superior in many ways, but they are going to be different depending on what you want.

[Nicholas Steel]

Originally posted by Salamand3r:

The ZxR is actually lesser than many onboard sound solutions now, and it really isn't worth the price.

It might be true that all soundcards and integrated solutions are equal, if you're running software that uses software audio processing instead of hardware audio processing. I've only seen one motherboard that was nearly on par with the ZxR and it cost I think over $800 AUD, it basically integrated the Creative ZxR soundcard in to the motherboard.

A soundcard offloads audio processing work load from the CPU, thus minimizing the work that the CPU has to do and thus freeing up resources for the CPU to dedicate towards other tasks! A soundcard also typically has superior DAC's.

[Salamand3r-]

Originally posted by Nicholas Steel:

Originally posted by Salamand3r:

The ZxR is actually lesser than many onboard sound solutions now, and it really isn't worth the price.

It might be true that all soundcards are equal, if you're running software that uses software audio processing instead of hardware audio processing. I've only seen one motherboard that was nearly on par with the ZxR and it cost I think over $800 AUD, it basically integrated the Creative ZxR soundcard in to the motherboard.

A soundcard offloads audio processing work load from the CPU, thus minimizing the work that the CPU has to do and thus freeing up resources for the CPU to dedicate towards other tasks! A soundcard also typically has superior DAC's.

True for X-Fi, under Windows XP, yes.

Not the modern SB chips.

Since SoundCore, Creative chips are all software based - they don't even do hardware ASIO.

When Microsoft reworked the audio stack in Vista, mainly to eliminate BSODs from Creative drivers, Creative killed off any true hardware acceleration. That's one of the things ALchemy does, translates hardware EAX into software.

This is one of the primary reasons that both AMD and now nVidia have added hardware audio processing to their GPUs. Hardware audio acceleration is tricky to do through sound card drivers post-Vista, and Creative hasn't even tried.

I used to make the same argument as you, until I did some research when planning to upgrade my sound from X-Fi.

If you are going for audiophile quality, the ZxR is trumped by most USB DACs these days. If you are just going for enthusiast, my 4-year-old Intel motherboard has better capacitors, better SNR, and similar hardware DSP to the ZxR. Although the DACs are indeed a step lower, I use optical out anyway, negating any benefits.

If you need a home studio solution, either a the midrange Alesis mixing boards can handle input and output, with better DACs, more port options, and overall better build quality, or one of the many, many M-Audio solutions.

Seriously, look at the specs of the ZxR compared to, say, a Mayflower DAC, and check out the hardware acceleration of the SoundCore chips. On both counts, unfortunately, you will find Creative's solution lacking. Hence why other sound card makers are either still using X-Fi chipsets, or more custom solutions.

The only truly common use of Creative SoundCore chips is on cheap Chromebooks and a few gaming grade motherboards.

I loved Creative cards back in the day. The AWE64 and Audigy both changed how I viewed PC audio, and the X-Fi line was their crowning glory, despite some of the industry's worst drivers. Sadly though, they really have failed to innovate for much of the past decade, especially with internal sound solutions.

[Nicholas Steel]

I thought ALchemy wraps all DirectSound, DirectSound3D, DirectMusic and audio hardware extensions in to either XAudio 2 or OpenAL (I forget which) both of which allow for direct hardware access to the soundcard.

I know some of Creative's new soundcards do lack hardware support for EAX versions older than EAX 5.0, which effectively kills off any reason to have EAX since virtually nothing uses EAX 5.0/all the good games that had EAX support used v4.0 or older (Or the superior Aureal A3D, not made by Creative).

If your soundcard lacks the hardware support than ALchemy will fail to accurately reproduce the EAX audio effects for EAX 4.0 (and older) equipped games because it will fall back to software emulation.

But then again it has indeed been a long time since I properly looked in to this. I'm pretty sure that OpenAL and XAudio 2 allow proper access to the soundcard hardware for more than just EAX. Unsure about ASIO as I've never used or cared for it.

At the absolute minimum, a dedicated soundcard definitely frees up your CPU to do other tasks under Vista and newer unless you're playing a video game/program that uses either DirectSound, DirectSound3D, DirectMusic or Software acceleration for audio.

[Salamand3r-]

Sadly, even OpenAL is handled in software on modern Soundblaster cards.

They literally use the same Cmedia sound chipsets as some motherboard solutions, with SoundCore handling hardware DSP - which is not accessible via drivers, it is only used for things like the headphone surround and reverb.

A ZxR literally offers no hardware benefits in terms of audio acceleration and CPU load - they use the same software CODECs as onboard.

I have even seen some clas that Creative's drivers have higher CPU usage than stock Cmedia drivers, but I have seen no actual proof.

You gain sometimes better DACs, and sometimes better components, but again, many enthusiast boards have equivalent - with some even including the SoundCore chips themselves for DSP.

ZxR is great if you want an all in one gimmick, but there are better solutions for each function, many of which cost less.

[nightcabbage]

This has definately derailed this thread, but since you asked... what I'm looking for:

1: Quality sound (right now I output to a receiver's multi-channel input and some hefty Klipsch speakers.)
2: 5.1 surround support
3: As comprehensive as I can get when it comes to game audio system/s support (including older Legacy games, EAX, etc.)

Also, though I've never been a fan of custom EQ settings... I'm actually a big fan of the X-Fi's "Crystalizer". I leave it at about 50% most of the time.

I'm NOT a fan of switching between Game Mode and Entertainment Mode.

Also, when I finally upgrade my motherboard (may be an ASRock Fatal1ty Gaming Z170 Gaming K6+), I won't be able to use my PCI based F-Xi.

[nightcabbage]

Oh, and I checked and the center channel is not reserved for dialogue in DOOM. It just isn't working! Gah.