DOOM
Leia May 27, 2020 @ 6:48pm
Playing this game is hard after Eternal.
Loved this when I first got it. After playing Eternal I missed this game (even though I played it for a bit before getting Eternal)

Eternal is way to cliche with the heavy metal and they make it very cartoony with the floating weapons and pickups. Missed this game's Aesthetics and environments. But when you're playing endgame/with all weapons you don't even want to use anything besides Gauss, Super shotty, Chaingun, or Rocket. Zero reason to use the weaker guns. Maybe the plasma rifle to take out shield guys but well placed rocket launcher is just as effective.

TL;DR the weapon balance is horrible.
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Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
PerturbedxTirade May 28, 2020 @ 1:24am 
What would revamp Doom 2016 for me is the ability to dash, faster glory kills, no death after falling off a ledge, and the speed boost after glory kills. Not sure if the last one is already in it; it's been awhile since I played this one.
Originally posted by PerturbedxTirade:
What would revamp Doom 2016 for me is the ability to dash, faster glory kills, no death after falling off a ledge, and the speed boost after glory kills. Not sure if the last one is already in it; it's been awhile since I played this one.

actually it is, with this particular rune setup:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=806620402

NOTE: Those 3 particular runes are best equipped before grabbing the Berserk power-up, as the runes gives the impression that you're teleporting right in the enemies' faces before, during, and after ripping them limb-from-limb
Last edited by Mister Torgue Flexington; May 28, 2020 @ 2:21am
Candy Man May 28, 2020 @ 7:19am 
Originally posted by PerturbedxTirade:
What would revamp Doom 2016 for me is the ability to dash, faster glory kills, no death after falling off a ledge, and the speed boost after glory kills. Not sure if the last one is already in it; it's been awhile since I played this one.
and where exactly will you go once you fall 100 feet into a ravine?
Elder_Moloch May 28, 2020 @ 7:49am 
Regarding Stronger weapons more valuable in later game, it is quite classic: further into the game - more and harder enemies you encounter and stronger guns usually fit better, while in early/mid levels you could play with weaker one just fine.

As for weapon balance being horrible: sure, maybe Plasma Rifle vs Assault Rifle/Gauss cannon or Assault Rifle vs Chaingun/Plasma Rifle or Combat Shotgun vs Super Shotgun have issues at their best potential, but it could be balanced without upgrading strong tools too much and upgrading weaker more. Sure, some Mods more preferable, but again - it could be fixed with less/no upgrades for such. Same with Runes/Suit Upgrades.

While game doesn't have cheats anymore (apart from God), it still grants ways to make your character OP with all upgrades or/and specific Runes/Rune builds.
On top of that, ammo capacity not so restricted at maximum compared to Eternal (though you don't have auto-rechargeable chainsaw either) and upgrades for stronger weapons often neglect higher ammo consumption, so as result stronger weapons become more preferable (I still use Assualt Rifle most of the time to kill and shoot precisely weaker enemies).
And I actually find it great in some sense, that it has lower skill cap and accessible for many, even while thinking it could be achieved in different more balanced way. At the same time it has different not forced RPG like upgrades, so if you want you could challenge yourself in different ways or just roleplay without too many troubles (depends from difficulty of course) compared to Eternal where desired playstyle/approach, if not set in stone, still feels quite forced for average player even on Easy/Normal.
People complain that game is too easy/imbalanced and that Eternal grants challenge by default. Well, you could challenge yourself here as well just according to your own will same as you could balance it on your own: don't use OP stuff, which was kept for new players, maybe even give yourself specific set of rules.

For example, I finished not long ago "No Weapon Upgrades/Suit Upgrades/Mods/Runes" run on Normal (technically +25 HP only run), which while wasn't as hard as Nightmare, still was challenging and interesting in its own way.
I also finished not long ago "No Melee/Glory Kills/Chainsaw/Grenades/BFG" run (which was easier, but still interesting).

Currently playing "Doomguy" run:
* Classic weapon position. Most Indicators (apart fro basic HUD and glory kill indicator in case melee is used) could be turned off (optional).
* Suit Upgrades: 150 HP/Armor; full Ammo (kinda high but could be reasoably lowered to 100 HP/Armor and 2 additional Points in Ammo or for Eternal vibe not being upgraded at all)
* Banned Suit upgrades: Immunity to barrel damage/All Equipment Upgrades/Faster weapon mods switching
* Banned weapons: Assault Rifle, Gauss Cannon and all type of Grenades.
* Alternative fire for Pistol/Super shotgun banned too.
* All Weapon mods/upgrades are banned apart from Chaingun Rotator Mod/Upgrades (since I find it a bit underwhelming without at least Rotator Mod and Speed Upgrade).
* All Rune challenges related to Assualt Rifle/Gauss Cannon/Glory Kills are banned (if not hard enough all Runes could be banned). RichGetRicher is banned in any case (almost always ban it).
* Gameplay: Melee Attack could be accessible, but Glory Kills outside of Berserk/Chainsaw/Boss kills are banned.

"Doomguy" Run not so different compared to "No Melee/Glory Kills/Grenades/BFG" run, but has its own vibe and most importantly same as "No Upgrades" run grants each weapon (which wasn't banned) its own niche (even Chaingun and Plasma Rifle, which were often underused in my "No Upgrades" and "No Melee" Runs).

You could try them, if you want. Maybe some of this would fit/entertain you too.


TLDR: I don't see weapon balance being horrible per se, but think that with low skill cap for this game, which grants strong tools/builds, it may require to "balance game on your own for your own taste". Thankfully Doom 2016 has a lot of space/tools for experiments in this area.
With that said, I agree that in ideal situation, balance between weapons/primary and mods/mods on their own could be better, if game was aimed more towards balanced approach, while better accessibility and diversity could be achieved in different manner.
While my reply sounds like sophism or something, since Doom 2016 campaign is solely SP and doesn't have sides/alternatives, which may affect gameplay experience in comparassion to other side and while it has tools to change gameplay to more balanced/hardcore state, I think imbalance is kinda ok for it and not that painful/horrible, since it depends from player choice.
Leia May 28, 2020 @ 8:06am 
Yeah, I can see that. Probably why I still have the game installed.

I think i still have the last couple levels to find all the secrets anyway. Originally I would play each level until I found all secrets but as I neared the end I felt the game sorta dragging so I rushed to completion. I use to think Ultra-violence was the standard difficulty so I was struggling at some parts to do the challenges and find all the secrets.

Eternal made some great accessibility changes but the game is also more difficult because they force you to play a certain way. Which, I like just using the super shotgun as a “primary weapon”.

So I do appreciate the weapon balance at times.

But probably will be my last time playing it after I 100% the secrets. There’s also some glitches that says I didn’t complete all the runes for one level when I did. So that’s annoying. Eternal also has the same glitch. Poo
Candy Man May 28, 2020 @ 10:32am 
i just use all weapons except pistol
PerturbedxTirade May 28, 2020 @ 12:46pm 
Originally posted by Mister Torgue Flexington:
Originally posted by PerturbedxTirade:
What would revamp Doom 2016 for me is the ability to dash, faster glory kills, no death after falling off a ledge, and the speed boost after glory kills. Not sure if the last one is already in it; it's been awhile since I played this one.

actually it is, with this particular rune setup:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=806620402

NOTE: Those 3 particular runes are best equipped before grabbing the Berserk power-up, as the runes gives the impression that you're teleporting right in the enemies' faces before, during, and after ripping them limb-from-limb
Thank you for this!
Wossj May 28, 2020 @ 7:20pm 
sdss
Hyperion Biga May 28, 2020 @ 9:58pm 
Originally posted by Candy Man:
i just use all weapons except pistol

Same, just finished the game on Nightmare (again) and yeah you could argue that some weapons are more "viable" but you can easily use all of them (if you prefer), if you don't play on Ultra Nightmare. It's fun to use different weapons, as they all look and sound awesome (except that lame pistol)

For example plasma gun freeze shot (that immobilizes enemies) is really useful to stop the fast rhino-like charging demons (can't remember what they're called). Then blast them with super shotty or rockets after. Works for any big, fast enemies, that get to your face. Primary tactic I used to complete my latest playthrough. Stop the demon, switch, kill it. Plasma gun is also useful when you get Quad damage, because you can spray it quickly everywhere with good DPS

The normal shotgun explosive shot is useful to lob into far distance, like imps hanging on walls. So it has two ranges without having to switch weapons. Grenades for far, normal fire for up close. Once you get comfortable with it, you can hit consistently at almost any range

Mini rocket launcher (assault rifle secondary) is useful for the flying skull demon whatever it's called. And it looks/sounds awesome, especially after you get unlimited firing. Also useful to kill the whatever summoner/b*tch shooting red lighting bolts. Cos it's so fast, but with automatic homing, your aim doesn't have to be precise

So yeah weapon balance could be better but I still prefer it to Eternal's forced mechanics

Eternal may be "better" in some regards (personally don't feel that way tbh), but Doom 2016 is such an experience, there is nothing like it in gaming... The graphics, dynamic music, freedom to use all guns, atmospheric and detailed environments. I just prefer it to Eternal, as a fun way to kill time. Best single player shooter ever made, I don't get tired replaying it, if I have few months break in between. Just the music alone makes it worth replaying. Didn't quite feel Eternal's music in the same way
Last edited by Hyperion Biga; May 28, 2020 @ 10:11pm
Leia May 29, 2020 @ 8:14am 
Doom Eternal’s music was generic/cliche to me. A friend from work asked me what Doom is and she assumed it involved Heavy Metal. And Doom Eternal soundtrack is basically that. I really liked Doom 2016’s soundtrack. I felt like it was unique and fun to listen to while doing the crazy things you do in-game.

I totally get what you are saying about the versatility. Because it was my second playthrough that I found the Plasma rifle stun bomb to be one of the best weapons to switch to. I use to just use the shockwave mod and that is pretty good too.

Doom Eternal’s forced mechanics are definitely not fun in the sense you HAVE to play that way. But lucky for me, it happens to be fun for me. Just don’t think I’ll play it anymore after I 100% it.
ghnami Jun 3, 2020 @ 7:49am 
weapons are balanced around progression in doom, you start with a simple pistol, upgrade to a short range low dps shotgun, then get ranged options in assault and plasma, heavy damage with rockets, crazy burst with SSG, high dps from chaingun, and finally the BFG. Since every gun shares an ammo type with another except rockets/bfg/chainsaw, I like that everything turns niche after you get an upgrade. The chaingun replaces the assault rifle for dps, but the assault rifle still has micro missiles and scope. The SSG replace the combat shotgun for close range combat, but explosive shot is still strong. Gauss replaces plasma, but stun is still good.

The game gives you a tool, says here, master this, and then once you've mastered it, you are given a tool that does one half of that tools job better, so you can see if you can use them both for their strengths more effectively than just one or the other. Combat shotgun falls off super hard against big demons, but cluster strike still his them hard, comboing that with rockets and eventually gauss is the long range alpha rotation, while super shot gun is the close/mid range one. Plasma rifle's 100% accuracy is appreciated much more on an instant projectile like the gauss cannon, but stunning pinkies and using SSG is a lot more efficient than spamming gauss/rockets. The weaker guns convert to utility guns.
theman389 Jun 3, 2020 @ 12:39pm 
Originally posted by BasedSif:
Doom Eternal’s forced mechanics are definitely not fun in the sense you HAVE to play that way.

Eyyyyyyy someone sees it my way. I'm glad I'm not alone in that observation. Just replayed some levels in 2016. Of course been playing Eternal before. The freedom you have in 2016 is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ nice. And not running out of ammo felt nice too. Like good, older shooters. But an improvement of course because it's Doom 2016!!!!
Last edited by theman389; Jun 3, 2020 @ 12:43pm
Leia Jun 3, 2020 @ 2:01pm 
Originally posted by theman389:
Eyyyyyyy someone sees it my way. I'm glad I'm not alone in that observation. Just replayed some levels in 2016. Of course been playing Eternal before. The freedom you have in 2016 is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ nice. And not running out of ammo felt nice too. Like good, older shooters. But an improvement of course because it's Doom 2016!!!!

Yeah, ammo was also kind of annoying but you just have to manage it. So plan around pickups and stuff like that. Use your chainsaw etc. I never ran out of ammo too often in Eternal. But in Doom 2016 you are pretty much always stocked. Ammo is always the first thing I upgrade when it comes to the argent energy upgrades. Even without it, I'm sure it's fine. I just like going BRRRRRRRRR on all my weapons lol
theman389 Jun 3, 2020 @ 2:59pm 
Originally posted by BasedSif:
Ammo is always the first thing I upgrade when it comes to the argent energy upgrades. Even without it, I'm sure it's fine. I just like going BRRRRRRRRR on all my weapons lol

lol
Daemia Jun 8, 2020 @ 3:11pm 
Originally posted by theman389:
Originally posted by BasedSif:
Doom Eternal’s forced mechanics are definitely not fun in the sense you HAVE to play that way.

Eyyyyyyy someone sees it my way. I'm glad I'm not alone in that observation. Just replayed some levels in 2016. Of course been playing Eternal before. The freedom you have in 2016 is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ nice. And not running out of ammo felt nice too. Like good, older shooters. But an improvement of course because it's Doom 2016!!!!

Yea, it's amazing how little things can change the overall taste completly. I was a big fan of ID, and Doom 16 gave me great hope for the future projects of ID (even tho it was far from perfect). But as said, devil is in the details. They still didn't learn that, and instead, cramed in gazillions of new small things in DE. That made the game... different. Im not against new and different things, but this is nothing more than a bad joke for me.

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Date Posted: May 27, 2020 @ 6:48pm
Posts: 16