How to hit without master strike?

[Lex Roman]

Hello

I love the game except for a few things. One of them being the combat system which as im doing it now is incredibly boring and near to impossible with multiple targets.
My warfare skill is at 11, sword at 13 and defense at 18 atm.

Normal attacks always result in counter attacks. Feints only work occasionally.
The only option so far seems to be master strikes which is the sole reason why i win every 1v1 fight.
But waiting for the enemy to attack can takes a long time and fights are really boring that way.
With multiple targets the master strike usually result in me being hit by an untargeted enemy.
But doing normal attacks wont work because i will get hit with a master strike, stagger and get hit from all sides.
The only reason i win 1v3-4 fights right now is because im almost full plate and can take quite a beating before i go down.

I also must say that the targeting system is horrible with multiple targets. I think my primary cause of death in this game is because of that.
The battles before i killed runt were so frustrating because the auto-targeting was all over the place.
It's horrendous.

Anyway.
How can i land normal attacks or perform combos in this game? So far the only ones being able to pull off combos are the NPCs. When i try it, i will get hit with a master strike.

I want the combat to be fun and engaging but with only master strikes, fights are far from it.

[Khalunka]

If you want a more interesting combat system focused in combos, you should mod your game to disable masterstrikes from enemies. If you want the combat to be even more smooth, you want to disable slow motions as well. Of course, dont learn masterstrikes, otherwise you would be cheating.

Now in vanilla, if you want to avoid being killed by multiple enemies, just play smart. You are not a hero, you are not a main character of an anime. 1vs3/4/5 is supposed to be tough. Specially if the enemies have blunt weapons. Or even more specially if they have a dog and you dont.

You can play smart by: Picking them off using a bow, be it at foot or at horse. You can use stealth. You can be a fast character focused in low weight and outrun them, separating the enemies. You could power up using potions or poisoning your blade. But if you truly insist playing vanilla melee 1vs5, so sad to say, your only choice of combat is a pathetic pressing S and timing Q for masterstrikes everyone until they are down.

There are three famous mods which disable masterstrikes, or disable masterstrikes and slow motions.

This one for example can even make enemies dumber:
https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/1243?tab=description

But there is an option to just disable masterstrike while keeping NPCs behavior.

By the way, I truly recommend this one to make to map more fun to explore:

https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/591?tab=description

Also good in some combats so enemies or yourself wont get stuck.

[Lex Roman]

Originally posted by Khalunka:

If you want a more interesting combat system focused in combos, you should mod your game to disable masterstrikes from enemies. If you want the combat to be even more smooth, you want to disable slow motions as well. Of course, dont learn masterstrikes, otherwise you would be cheating.

Now in vanilla, if you want to avoid being killed by multiple enemies, just play smart. You are not a hero, you are not a main character of an anime. 1vs3/4/5 is supposed to be tough. Specially if the enemies have blunt weapons. Or even more specially if they have a dog and you dont.

You can play smart by: Picking them off using a bow, be it at foot or at horse. You can use stealth. You can be a fast character focused in low weight and outrun them, separating the enemies. You could power up using potions or poisoning your blade. But if you truly insist playing vanilla melee 1vs5, so sad to say, your only choice of combat is a pathetic pressing S and timing Q for masterstrikes everyone until they are down.

There are three famous mods which disable masterstrikes, or disable masterstrikes and slow motions.

This one for example can even make enemies dumber:
https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/1243?tab=description

But there is an option to just disable masterstrike while keeping NPCs behavior.

By the way, I truly recommend this one to make to map more fun to explore:

https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/591?tab=description

Also good in some combats so enemies or yourself wont get stuck.

Im going for the vanilla experience as this is my first playthrough so i wont be using mods right now.
Though the bush collision mod does look appealing as bushes seem to be the bane of my horses existence.

I don't really care for combos but i do think that if combos are added to a game, i should at least be able to make use of them should i want to. But pulling them off seems to be next to impossible.

I suppose i could give archery a shot but i truly suck at it. Unless im standing really close i will most likely miss every single shot.
But standing really close kind of defeats the purpose of archery.

I have not used potions so far because i don;t like it and i haven't used poison either since poison is womans weapon.

I know, im not making it easier for myself but you'd think that at some point Henry should be able to land a hit on a target considering he gets better at fighting with his chosen weapon but it seems his chance of hitting does not go up with increased weapon and warfare skill.

[Humpenstilzchen]

That is the one big flaw of this game and no there is not really a workaround as enemy master strikes have a random chance of happening which is way too high encouraging you to only use master strikes yourself to avoid guaranteed and unavoidable hits.

Only two ways out of this:

1. Don´t bother and use masterstrikes all the time
2. Use a mod that fixes this allowing you to utilize the rest of the combat system without being screwed up by nonstop masterstrikes of every peasant out in the world

Long story short: Don´t bother and just use masterstrikes.

Btw definitly check out the bush collision remover, it´s a gamechanger and one of the few must have mods imho

[Judeo-communism]

You don't. The combat is RNG. Every enemy in the game has a set chance to Master Strike you no matter what you do, even the lowest level enemy in the game vs. a max level Henry. So the only solution is to cheese the game: horse kiting, archery, stealth or relying on your own Master Strikes. Otherwise, any time you press the attack button on an enemy you're targeting, they have a chance to Master Strike you. Guard position, enemy's animations, timing, range, none of that matters. It's just RNG.

[luftatmer]

Originally posted by Judeo-communism:

So the only solution is to cheese the game: horse kiting, archery, stealth or …

This game at least tries to make the protagonist feel like a normal bloke that is not a „god or war“-sort of thing. I salute this fresh concept as most computer games have spoiled people and taught them to expect they should be able to fight multiple opponents at the same time, and with ease. That is part of the reason why people complain here so much. Well, reality is a ♥♥♥♥♥: that is not possible. At all. So if you would try to embrace this concept of reality by using alternative methods to avoid plunging into mass fights: The use of stealth, your bow or your horse could not be seen as „cheese“ at all. On the contrary, this is exactly what people do when trying to stay alive. This is a roleplaying game. We could enjoy it for what it is. Is it perfect? Of course not.

[SympliKrazi]

If fun combat is what you're looking for, and the cheese is too cheesy, maybe this game isnt for you? There doesnt seem to be much more to the combat of this game, unless trying out what others have mentioned with bows or poison. I mean, if you want the vanilla experience, why not have Henry learn to read, go herb picking, brew a concoction and sneak into a bandit camp and go brains over brawn? It's an option to change up the monotony, imo. But yeah, I think most people have a preferred way of doing things, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that.

Or perhaps you may have more fun playing Kingdom of Amalur, Witcher, Dragon Dogma, Middle Earth Shadow of War, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat or something like that? iono

Otherwise, it seems like you're well on your way with what KCD has to offer. Just continue to build those combat, weapon skills, strength and agility stats, and the odds may be ever in your favor eventually.

[Echolecter]

Fighting in this game is all about moving, just like is done by boxers. When you are out of reach enemies cannot hit you. Fighting multiple foes usually results in death, or spam buttons and hope you will land a master strike. But you really don't need to fight like that and wait for attacks. In many cases they do land and you die because of it. I always play offensive and you can kill most enemies with only few hits, regardless of their armor.

When there are many targets I just keep my distance and use the bow first. Good bow kills most with one shot. Other combat I keep moving and strike by moving towards them and swing or stab. This method also works at start of the game without any skills, you just need to avoid any strikes. Hardly ever use master strikes or try to perform combos, they're often impossible to complete unless you are in training arena where Bernard actually lets you hit him. Favorite weapons, heavy war hammer or battle axes, those actually do serious damage.

Besides that, wear proper clothing. Not to much armor and pick items with high stealth stats, this makes you less visible and enemies further away don't attack because they can't see you. Which is plain stupid but it's how the game works so make use of that. Armor is also kind of useless and only slows you down, especially with low stamina or strength.

Combat isn't that bad at all, you just need to learn how to play this game. Applying 'modern simplified' fighting tactics as used in many other games just don't work here.

[Kosevich]

Why no one talk about helmets? And enemy equipment?
If you see your opponents are wearing open helmets it is an instant win scenario.
Use high pierce damage weapon like short sword, spear or bow.
Ideal choice - short sword "stinger". It allow you to kill any opponent in one stab in the face.
If you are ambushed by several bandits combat will end in literally 10 seconds.

[Judeo-communism]

Originally posted by luftatmer:

Well, reality is a ♥♥♥♥♥: that is not possible. At all.

No, it is very possible and it's actually way too easy. I've soloed Vranik 1vs50+ just by spamming Master Strikes. Combat is bad.

Originally posted by Echolecter:

Fighting in this game is all about moving... always play offensive and you can kill most enemies with only few hits, regardless of their armor.

Combat isn't that bad at all, you just need to learn how to play this game. Applying 'modern simplified' fighting tactics as used in many other games just don't work here.

You rarely need to move at all, especially in 1vs1. If you play offensive, you're just gambling with RNG to get Master Struck. Combat is bad. Once you learn to play the game, you realize the only "safe" and non-RNG ways to do damage is to cheese it.

Originally posted by Kosevich:

Why no one talk about helmets? And enemy equipment?
If you see your opponents are wearing open helmets it is an instant win scenario.
Use high pierce damage weapon like short sword, spear or bow.
Ideal choice - short sword "stinger". It allow you to kill any opponent in one stab in the face.
If you are ambushed by several bandits combat will end in literally 10 seconds.

Only if you pass the RNG check with that stab and it actually hits. Worst, you'll get Master Struck. Fishing for Combos on having enemies Normal Block you is arguably faster, but requires the most RNG. The RNG result for "no action" on your attack is the lowest modifier:

<row rpg_param_key="CombatAutoNoDefenseWeight" rpg_param_value="0.4" />
<row rpg_param_key="CombatAutoNormalBWeight" rpg_param_value="2.8" />
<row rpg_param_key="CombatAutoPBWeight" rpg_param_value="2.5" />
<row rpg_param_key="CombatAutoSPBWeight" rpg_param_value="1.5" />
<row rpg_param_key="CombatAutoDodgeWeight" rpg_param_value="1.1" />

As for armor, Raven's Beak does do the most damage to armor but its low range and speed make it inferior to just St. George's longsword, which is only 7 less stab damage than the Stinger and much more slash and range. Longswords have the most consistent landing Master Strike animations too, and the best Combos.

[Echolecter]

Originally posted by Judeo-communism:

You rarely need to move at all, especially in 1vs1. If you play offensive, you're just gambling with RNG to get Master Struck. Combat is bad. Once you learn to play the game, you realize the only "safe" and non-RNG ways to do damage is to cheese it.

Good you have found your way of dealing with the combat, and it sounds to me that your preferred method is actually incredibly easy instead of bad combat. I use controller and moving around is my best option, step forward to strike and back again. No RNG and in many cases an enemy will step into my swing or stab, trying to land a hit at same time.

If you want to be 100% safe, use light weight max-stealth outfit, with bow and dagger. You can get really close to foes while being totally invisible in a forest. I rarely die in this game, and when it does happen, it's mostly because I really don't care if I do and go all in.

All values listed don't make any sense when you really can't tell when they're applied, as in what actually triggers calculations that are done to determine the outcome. They're probably most active while smashing buttons and you'll notice a difference when using mods.

[Judeo-communism]

Originally posted by Echolecter:

Originally posted by Judeo-communism:

You rarely need to move at all, especially in 1vs1. If you play offensive, you're just gambling with RNG to get Master Struck. Combat is bad. Once you learn to play the game, you realize the only "safe" and non-RNG ways to do damage is to cheese it.

Good you have found your way of dealing with the combat, and it sounds to me that your preferred method is actually incredibly easy instead of bad combat. I use controller and moving around is my best option, step forward to strike and back again. No RNG and in many cases an enemy will step into my swing or stab, trying to land a hit at same time.

If you want to be 100% safe, use light weight max-stealth outfit, with bow and dagger. You can get really close to foes while being totally invisible in a forest. I rarely die in this game, and when it does happen, it's mostly because I really don't care if I do and go all in.

All values listed don't make any sense when you really can't tell when they're applied, as in what actually triggers calculations that are done to determine the outcome. They're probably most active while smashing buttons and you'll notice a difference when using mods.

No. You "stepping and stepping back" isn't a thing. Any time you press attack on an enemy you're targeting, you're gambling with RNG. They can instantly snap their animation around to Master Strike you at a set percent chance, no matter what current animation or state they are in. You don't understand how the programming works, so you're just coming up with delusional conjecture.

Yes, archery is one of the ways to cheese the game. These include horse kiting, stealth and just relying on your own Master Strikes as well.

The values listed aren't overtly complex. There are mods that manipulate these values to remove Master Strikes entirely or lower their modifiers drastically, as well as making guard positions, timing and animations actually matter.

[Entaris]

Originally posted by luftatmer:

Well, reality is a ♥♥♥♥♥: that is not possible. At all.

There are entire medieval treatise on fighting groups using various martial weaponry of the age. Most of them involving threat-space and sweeping movements.

Neither of which are implemented in this "realistic" combat simulation.

Originally posted by Echolecter:

Fighting in this game is all about moving, just like is done by boxers. When you are out of reach enemies cannot hit you.

That's a nice sentiment and all, but boxing is done 1v1 and additional enemies don't get a speed boost to run you down and their animations and yours don't lurch around and snap to each other IRL. I've been pulled 3-bodies deep into a moshpit because I attempted to attack a guy charging me, only for KCD to decide, no, in fact, I was swinging for the plated tank behind him, and he Masterstruck, so I have to be over there for the animation

[Judeo-communism]

Originally posted by Entaris:

There are entire medieval treatise on fighting groups using various martial weaponry of the age. Most of them involving threat-space and sweeping movements.

Neither of which are implemented in this "realistic" combat simulation.

Give Henry a greatsword and let him Montate through hordes lmao

[Entaris]

Originally posted by Judeo-communism:

Originally posted by Entaris:

There are entire medieval treatise on fighting groups using various martial weaponry of the age. Most of them involving threat-space and sweeping movements.

Neither of which are implemented in this "realistic" combat simulation.

Give Henry a greatsword and let him Montate through hordes lmao

I definitely wouldn't want to try to spin-swing in an FPS, but otherwise it could be pretty dope to play as a prototype Landsknecht

[Judeo-communism]

Originally posted by Entaris:

Originally posted by Judeo-communism:

Give Henry a greatsword and let him Montate through hordes lmao

I definitely wouldn't want to try to spin-swing in an FPS, but otherwise it could be pretty dope to play as a prototype Landsknecht

Have you tried Chivalry or Mordhau? In Mordhau, you can even half sword so you can fight easier in tight spaces like buildings or gatehouses.