How does the flow of combat actually work?

[A]

I suppose it's a no brainer that enemies would keep up their guard or block your attacks. However, am I only supposed to get a hit in after 5 or so exchanges?

For example, if I want to pull off combos, the most logical way is to drain their stamina, but how exactly do i get here? Are combos meant to drain stamina or only when I catch them off guard without stamina?

Attempting to pull off a three hit combo is a miracle when their stamina is full. Pulling it off after a block is also a miracle because even if I get a hit in, they usually block the second strike for the combo.

I suppose it's a skill issue, but I'd like to learn it since it's a bit frustrating and engaging at the same time.

[vine]

typically clinch is easily cheesed and chained to spend enemy stamina, then unleash your fusrodah

imo combos are generally greatly overestimated by average player. there are people who really know what why and when, and they do combos as a second nature. i'm nervous can't keep my calm in combat, although i don't consider myself average player :D maybe i am. i just don't bang my head on the wall if it fails once.

i fight using horse, potions, and heavy hitting weapons - axes or maces. that's more than enough to defeat anyone.

[DargonBlak]

the best way to witness the cadence is to back step often and let the combat come to you

Henry's opponents are designed to meld with the expected cadence, so watch them

but, with the overall implementation of the combat system, it can sometimes be more jank and less elegance

for me, i disabled NPC Master Strikes and never have Henry learn them - the underlying combat system is still really good (and makes a lot more sense)

[Judeo-communism]

It's not a skill issue once you realize the basic mechanics and fundamentals and concepts of how the game's system works. Ultimately, it comes down to RNG when you press left click. Your and the enemy's guard position doesn't matter; it has no affect on anything gameplay related except combo animations. To do combos, you have to attack in the correct combo sequences and hope you pass the RNG checks of the enemy either being hit or normal blocking you instead of dodging, Perfect Blocking or Master Striking you. This chance is affected by Henry's Warfare vs. their Defense stat. Even if the enemy Normal Blocks any or all hits in your combo sequence, the combo will still go through and damage the enemy.

But ultimately, the only "safe" ways to do damage in KC:D are archery, horse kiting, stealth and only using your own Master Strikes. They patched successful Clinches giving you a guaranteed free hit years ago, but you can still try to fish for them if you want.

tl;dr this game's combat sucks because it's RNG based with the illusion of player skill, but the rest of the game makes up for it.

[A]

Originally posted by Judeo-communism:

It's not a skill issue once you realize the basic mechanics and fundamentals and concepts of how the game's system works. Ultimately, it comes down to RNG when you press left click. Your and the enemy's guard position doesn't matter; it has no affect on anything gameplay related except combo animations. To do combos, you have to attack in the correct combo sequences and hope you pass the RNG checks of the enemy either being hit or normal blocking you instead of dodging, Perfect Blocking or Master Striking you. This chance is affected by Henry's Warfare vs. their Defense stat. Even if the enemy Normal Blocks any or all hits in your combo sequence, the combo will still go through and damage the enemy.

But ultimately, the only "safe" ways to do damage in KC:D are archery, horse kiting, stealth and only using your own Master Strikes. They patched successful Clinches giving you a guaranteed free hit years ago, but you can still try to fish for them if you want.

tl;dr this game's combat sucks because it's RNG based with the illusion of player skill, but the rest of the game makes up for it.

It's kinda frustrating when you suddenly can't block anymore randomly, but cool when doing the same sequence of attacks, you can suddenly block 3 consecutive times.

[Legion]

Originally posted by Judeo-communism:

It's not a skill issue once you realize the basic mechanics and fundamentals and concepts of how the game's system works. Ultimately, it comes down to RNG when you press left click. Your and the enemy's guard position doesn't matter; it has no affect on anything gameplay related except combo animations. To do combos, you have to attack in the correct combo sequences and hope you pass the RNG checks of the enemy either being hit or normal blocking you instead of dodging, Perfect Blocking or Master Striking you. This chance is affected by Henry's Warfare vs. their Defense stat. Even if the enemy Normal Blocks any or all hits in your combo sequence, the combo will still go through and damage the enemy.

But ultimately, the only "safe" ways to do damage in KC:D are archery, horse kiting, stealth and only using your own Master Strikes. They patched successful Clinches giving you a guaranteed free hit years ago, but you can still try to fish for them if you want.

tl;dr this game's combat sucks because it's RNG based with the illusion of player skill, but the rest of the game makes up for it.

Another caveat to this is that the combat is just super clunky. It was clunky day one, it is still clunky now. RNG on top turns it into an annoyance with new people, who stop messing with it because of just how bad it flows together. Combat is one of the things i'm glad they took a look at for KCD2...as it just isn't a very good time over here. Can it be fun? Yes. Is it always? No.

[Echolecter]

As mentioned, this game relies on stats, Henry vs enemy. Only way to avoid this is by moving around. It's literally lesson one: KEEP MOVING. By doing so the enemy isn't able to hit you when further away, and whatever stats don't really matter. Best part is that if they start an attack, move forward and do the same. I've had so many hilarious situations where they just step into my swings or stabs, and it often triggers head cracker as well.

If you're really fed up with how melee combat works, get a Cuman (74) bow and invest some time getting required skills so you can use it. This is basically a one shot weapon to kill most, maybe few more for heavily armored enemies depending on where you hit them.

[Santa Claus]

I'm no expert but I can understand the combat mechanic and it's fun for me.

This is for 1-1 combat:
For the most part I wait for the enemy to strike. I block and move while using an attack timed to the block. 50% of the time I get a counter strike. If the enemy is circling but won't strike I clinch and push them back getting a free hit most times. It can be cheesed but I don't. Sometimes if the enemy doesn't strike I'll try to use a combo. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't.

For mass combat:
I just attack anyone who is engaged with another NPC. A few blows will kill them. I don't allow myself to go 1-1 if I can because another NPC will eventually hit me. So I attack and move around.

I also try to make sure I'm heavily armored with multiple layers if I know a fight is imminent so strikes that do get through don't do much or any damage.

[EolSunder]

i keep it simple. normal bandits, enemies etc you can attack with weapons how you like. With the tougher shield using armored enemies that are programmed to be good, just shoot them with a bow and stay out of the clunky melee junk. Many games are exactly like this, they make melee combat over silly, overly hard, and clunky. And most just shoot things at a distance to keep far way from blocking, counter attacks, and so on. Gothic series, Elex series, this game, and many others.. vastly confusing complicated melee combat, very easy ranged combat. I hate the melee combat in the game just like all those other games. Its ok vs basic bandit foes and such who have little armor, not usually shields or any skill, but against tough opponents that computer programming is going to slaughter you.

That is why everyone says .. rely on master strikes and such.. because the melee combat is so bad, if you go on the normal offensive you will be beaten down so easy by skilled opponents, because the computer is much better at it than your clunky controls. So you have to actually just cheeze and play the defensive block/hit game which ruins the reason to have actual good melee combat.

[Primigenia]

if you want'the easies flow without thinking too much about it: swing a couple times, wait for the enemy to hit and when the green shield pops up press Q and then hit them. If you don't have something like 4 enemies all at once you'll breeze through the opponents.

[Trytr6ght]

Sorry if im a bit late

A good tip that helped me out is whenever you throw an attack, try and make it be the starter to one of your combos. That way, if it hits or they block it but not perfect block it, you can chain to the next and then the next.

Hope this helps.

[Legato Bluesummers]

enemy master striking you to death is pretty irritating since they're almost guaranteed to get one if you just throw out attacks. I like to kite backwards, lunge forward, and then retreat back to lure out a strike and then counter on that. You can get an almost guaranteed clean hit after a clinch but it has to be a bottom strike from the left or right on the opposite side where their shield is. You can also get a top down strike, but you have to hold forward and time it just right. You cannot ever seem to get a free shot if you kick them in the clinch or do an arm lock from my experience, it's only the punch. It's very easy to do if you throw them into something. Riposte works well too if you miss a master strike, but you have to hit them wherever there is no guard, usually its the lower left. Another thing that works, albeit its hit or miss, is holding down the attack button and getting them to move their arms to block and then very quickly changing direction at the last moment. Lower right to left to lower left and then attack high or to the right. Holding the stab button and trying to bait with in and out movement is a good one b/c trying to get a responsive strike without holding the attack is like a wild gamble. Holding the button works pretty well though.

If you get your stealth high enough, you can pretty much walk behind a group of enemies and stab them easily as long as they're focused on someone else.

[Judeo-communism]

Originally posted by Legato Bluesummers:

enemy master striking you to death is pretty irritating since they're almost guaranteed to get one if you just throw out attacks. I like to kite backwards, lunge forward, and then retreat back to lure out a strike and then counter on that. You can get an almost guaranteed clean hit after a clinch but it has to be a bottom strike from the left or right on the opposite side where their shield is. You can also get a top down strike, but you have to hold forward and time it just right. You cannot ever seem to get a free shot if you kick them in the clinch or do an arm lock from my experience, it's only the punch. It's very easy to do if you throw them into something. Riposte works well too if you miss a master strike, but you have to hit them wherever there is no guard, usually its the lower left. Another thing that works, albeit its hit or miss, is holding down the attack button and getting them to move their arms to block and then very quickly changing direction at the last moment. Lower right to left to lower left and then attack high or to the right. Holding the stab button and trying to bait with in and out movement is a good one b/c trying to get a responsive strike without holding the attack is like a wild gamble. Holding the button works pretty well though.

If you get your stealth high enough, you can pretty much walk behind a group of enemies and stab them easily as long as they're focused on someone else.

All of this is, sadly, not how the game actually works. It's just RNG. They patched out guaranteed free hits after successful Clinching back in like 2019.

[Legato Bluesummers]

but i'm playing it rn and doing all of that both on normal and hardcore.

[Judeo-communism]

Originally posted by Legato Bluesummers:

but i'm playing it rn and doing all of that both on normal and hardcore.

Yeah, but, it's just RNG. You get lucky and you get unlucky sometimes. Nothing you do changes that, no matter how many stories you try to tell your self to make it seems like it's not just RNG. It's in the code.

[Legato Bluesummers]

Originally posted by Judeo-communism:

Originally posted by Legato Bluesummers:

but i'm playing it rn and doing all of that both on normal and hardcore.

Yeah, but, it's just RNG. You get lucky and you get unlucky sometimes. Nothing you do changes that, no matter how many stories you try to tell your self to make it seems like it's not just RNG. It's in the code.

I see, I read your thread here after looking for the decompiled code to see if you're right. It appears you are.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/379430/discussions/0/3814034217020516422/?ctp=2

The thread was locked, but I went down a bit of a rabbit hole. I am interested in what you propose as a solution to this though. randomized blocks, no blocks, perfect blocks, master strikes, and evade mirror how an average person would play. Are suggesting that the combat needs situations where you can always land a strike on an opponent? It seems that for player defense, the system is fine.