The truth about "historical accuracy"

[White Knight]

Sadly, the term "historical accuracy" is thrown around far too much in this forum. It is true that the game is more historically accurate than just about every other video game, and the developers deserve some credit for that.
Unfortunately, it comes through the lens of ultra-nationalistic propaganda.
This article explains things far better than I could, and although I don't expect many of you to actually read it, I submit it for your perusal.
(Yes, the author obviously didn't know about the monastery quest)
The game is strongest with regard to architecture, clothing, arms and armour, etc. It is weakest when dealing with politics, and less tangible things.

To be clear, I am hoping to help set the record straight for those who aren't really aware of the importance of critical thinking when it comes to historical analysis and interpretation. This article is very helpful in that regard.

https://unwinnable.com/2018/03/02/deliverance-myth-making-and-historical-accuracy/

"Back then everyone was white!" Please read this article before posting,
https://www.publicmedievalist.com/white-middle-ages-come/

... and be sure to check out this one too,
https://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/

I'd like to believe that if you love history, you also love honesty.

This is a great game, I've loved playing it for hundreds of hours, and I feel a little uncomfortable with Daniel Varva's interpretation of "history". As a player and a fan, I think it's important that people do not lose sight of the fact that this game is just one interpretation of "history" and must be considered in that light.

[Tr1bal]

...and then the cumans held hands with henry and frolicked off into the sunset.

[♱ Jester ᗜˬᗜ]

There is no "ultra-nationalistic propaganda." in Kingdom Come: Deliverance; Bad bait thread.

[Four Little Diamonds]

Originally posted by Jesterpiece:

There is no "ultra-nationalistic propaganda." in Kingdom Come: Deliverance; Bad bait thread.

This.

[noxteryn]

Words cannot describe how absolute garbage that first article is. Reid McCarter, the guy who wrote it, should be ashamed of himself for writing such nonsensical drivel. He is exactly the type of intellectually dishonest moraliser people point to in order to discredit progressivism. I despise him for the harm he causes with his work.

[Four Little Diamonds]

Originally posted by noxteryn:

Words cannot describe how absolute garbage that first article is. Reid McCarter, the guy who wrote it, should be ashamed of himself for writing such nonsensical drivel. He is exactly the type of intellectually dishonest moraliser people point to in order to discredit progressivism. I despise him for the harm he causes with his work.

Clearly McCarter never finished the game since the ending delves into the motivations of all the lords vying for power in Bohemia and the surrounding lands and the game paints them all as being incompetent and "acting like children".

specifically here

https://youtu.be/QvnZO_H0z-0?t=2983

starts at 49:40

A few lines of dialogue later, Hans and Henry start belittling Wenceslaus, saying he is a drunkard and how they slept better not knowing how incompetent or untrustworthy their own King is. Plenty of bad things to say about their own King and fellow Bohemians from what I can see.

As for the 2nd article, the fact that it states "undoing the damage" requires poc to be included in Hollywood superhero movies is a mockery to race relations in general with how superficial the notion is; as if Hollywood is history in the making and not meant for pure entertainment. For some it seems to be about history-making or revisionism just like what McCarter says about omission.

[MacSuibhne]

Originally posted by Clown World HONK! HONK!:

As for the 2nd article, the fact that it states "undoing the damage" requires poc to be included in Hollywood superhero movies is a mockery to race relations in general with how superficial the notion is; as if Hollywood is history in the making and not meant for pure entertainment. For some it seems to be about history-making or revisionism just like what McCarter says about omission.

"You surprise me!. But yes...."

[Pieshaman]

I not going into the historical representation of events of the game, but there are some things definitly about combat that is just really not as it went in that era where plated armour is widely common and used throughout europe. the only historical valuable move against armour with a sword in that era would only be reduced to the halbhand after you managed to get your opponent on the ground as it is the only way to properly pierce an opponent with a sword in one of his vital areas. Hack and slashing a sword is just only for movies and games, it will dull the blade really fast, or worse damaging the blade. Most armies would have been equiped with polearms/halberds/spear type weapons only with a knife/dagger as a backup weapon. While I am not sure about gunpowder usage of that area in that time I do know that surrounding powers like Genua, the Byzantines, Ottomans and Russians already had crude but effective types of gun and artillery. So I would expect to see that too somehow there but I have not seen anything about that yet.
But I am glad it is a bit arcady, or it would simply become dull to play.
edit: I almost forgot about crossbows. They aren't there but should been widely used too, but I guess it is too strong for the game as it would be the most effective armour piercer then.

[T9]

hyperbole much? The lens is more the US-CAN

Every type of skin color was probably everywhere to some degree. People of color/black people (black people here dislike the laughable term People of color) were present in Middleage in Europe. Nothing new. But the number is pretty small. This game isn't in Spain, Italy, Greece. So the number is even smaller.

There aren't even many people in this game to begin with. Not very accurate that only 25-30 people live in Rattay, eh?

Not sure what this obsession is or if it is just a random clickbait tabloid bs article.

[Pieshaman]

Originally posted by t9:

hyperbole much? The lens is more the US-CAN

Every type of skin color was probably everywhere to some degree. People of color/black people (black people here dislike the laughable term People of color) were present in Middleage in Europe. Nothing new. But the number is pretty small. This game isn't in Spain, Italy, Greece. So the number is even smaller.

There aren't even many people in this game to begin with. Not very accurate that only 25-30 people live in Rattay, eh?

Not sure what this obsession is or if it is just a random clickbait tabloid bs article.

I not old enough to know about mediaval ages but I was almost the only not white kid in 1985-90 in the area here. People came touch my face to see if the brown came off and stuff like that. Some kids even asked if I was made of chocolate lol.

[T9]

Originally posted by Pieshaman:

Originally posted by t9:

hyperbole much? The lens is more the US-CAN

Every type of skin color was probably everywhere to some degree. People of color/black people (black people here dislike the laughable term People of color) were present in Middleage in Europe. Nothing new. But the number is pretty small. This game isn't in Spain, Italy, Greece. So the number is even smaller.

There aren't even many people in this game to begin with. Not very accurate that only 25-30 people live in Rattay, eh?

Not sure what this obsession is or if it is just a random clickbait tabloid bs article.

I not old enough to know about mediaval ages but I was almost the only not white kid in 1985-90 in the area here. People came touch my face to see if the brown came off and stuff like that. Some kids even asked if I was made of chocolate lol.

wow rly :D
It's funny and weird at the same time to read this. I haven't seen a person with darker tone until I was like 20. But, I don't know, my mom never made a fuss about it. It was a normal relationship to work or party with all people no matter what they look like or where they came from. It is an attitude and parenting thing too

[Pieshaman]

Originally posted by MacSuibhne:

Originally posted by MacSuibhne:

"You surprise me!. But yes...."

Totally agree

I get what that author ment but she is totally missing the point there with using examples out the fantasy genre instead of actual historical movies.
A better example could be one of my favourite movies: Lawrence of Arabia. I don't mind it at all cause they great actors, but I still notice it is a little weird that Alec Guinnes plays a prince Faisal and Anthony Quinn plays the sheik.
I know this is not medieval ages, but I trying to point out what the author ment to explain I think.

[wjpower2003]

Originally posted by Pieshaman:

Originally posted by MacSuibhne:

Totally agree

I get what that author ment but she is totally missing the point there with using examples out the fantasy genre instead of actual historical movies.
A better example could be one of my favourite movies: Lawrence of Arabia. I don't mind it at all cause they great actors, but I still notice it is a little weird that Alec Guinnes plays a prince Faisal and Anthony Quinn plays the sheik.
I know this is not medieval ages, but I trying to point out what the author ment to explain I think.

The 60's was still pretty racist so Lawrence of Arabia (actually my favourite movie) was quite progressive for it's era as films prior, and even contemporaneous to it, usually had white actors playing all the "people of colour" rather than having Arab actors like Omar Sharif and others.

[2GenL]

Originally posted by Pieshaman:

I not going into the historical representation of events of the game, but there are some things definitly about combat that is just really not as it went in that era where plated armour is widely common and used throughout europe. the only historical valuable move against armour with a sword in that era would only be reduced to the halbhand after you managed to get your opponent on the ground as it is the only way to properly pierce an opponent with a sword in one of his vital areas. Hack and slashing a sword is just only for movies and games, it will dull the blade really fast, or worse damaging the blade. Most armies would have been equiped with polearms/halberds/spear type weapons only with a knife/dagger as a backup weapon. While I am not sure about gunpowder usage of that area in that time I do know that surrounding powers like Genua, the Byzantines, Ottomans and Russians already had crude but effective types of gun and artillery. So I would expect to see that too somehow there but I have not seen anything about that yet.
But I am glad it is a bit arcady, or it would simply become dull to play.
edit: I almost forgot about crossbows. They aren't there but should been widely used too, but I guess it is too strong for the game as it would be the most effective armour piercer then.

Play the game - the reason behind no gun weapons in the area is explained when preparing the siege of talmburg

[Waifuhunter]

LoL :D
I thought such topics died years ago. And here we are again.
Who even let such people write in the Internet? Why they are not taking their meds? So many questions and no answers...

[vine]

nah not this again
anybody can make a game to their liking. WHS made a game they wanted to make, depicting events WHS wanted to tell.
it's by no means intended as whitewashing or white supremacing.

STAHP with those frivolous readings, they do no good. let devs do what they want to do.