Kingdom Come: Deliverance

Kingdom Come: Deliverance

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hoot hoot Oct 29, 2021 @ 4:12am
I just don't understand how to deal with multiple armored enemies. Help?
So say you get ambushed by bandits who are all armored like they're knights of the round table. No doubt, fully realistic 15th century Bohemia thing that happened.

How do you actually deal with this? Aside from running, assuming your horse doesn't immediately have a stroke and throw you off, how do you do this?

You can't run on foot because every Bohemian bandit is the ancestor of Usain Bolt and will catch you, then you'll get beaten.

Doesn't seem like you can actually hit them because they'll block/dodge and often counter attack.

If you do hit them, then you're still open to getting hit by the other 2+ guys.

I can't even get combos off.

Want to swap targets? Enjoy the seizure-simulator that will ensue as Henry spasms around in a circle.

God help you if there are archers. You want to go after the archers? Nope, **** you, every melee enemy is going to shove their sword up your *** if you turn around.

I've got gambeson, chain mail, and plate all over, yet it feels like it doesn't really mean much. I bash an enemy in the head with a warhammer and they're hardly fazed.

The game's combat feels fair and satisfying in 1v1, but more than one enemy and it just gets frustrating. I know people get good at this game and can handle this, so what is it that you people actually do? What stats should I have before trying? The guide for multiple enemies had some helpful tips, but it still feels like a mess to attempt these fights.
Last edited by hoot hoot; Oct 29, 2021 @ 4:17am
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Showing 1-15 of 89 comments
MacSuibhne Oct 29, 2021 @ 5:32am 
Originally posted by Major Fertilizer:
The game's combat feels fair and satisfying in 1v1, but more than one enemy and it just gets frustrating. I know people get good at this game and can handle this, so what is it that you people actually do? What stats should I have before trying? The guide for multiple enemies had some helpful tips, but it still feels like a mess to attempt these fights.

The answer to your question lies in your last paragraph--you expect a fight against multiple enemies to be "fair". Maybe you're expecting them to take tickets and queue up to fight you? Do you think they'll start fighting among themselves because they don't think it's "fair" to take turns?

No, it's not fair. But it is real. It's what would happen in real life.

That said, it can be done. Some people here go looking for multiple enemies. Yes, having good armour is helpful. Movement is critical. Potions help. The Chained Strikes perk is a must. Never run.

And if the lock system isn't working for you, don't use it. After over 650 hours I am just starting to use it.... and I took on all those bandit camps (with few exceptions, mostly to explore the mechanics of stealth kills), on foot, one on one, me and Mutt. Up to eight (?) opponents.

But you know all this already if you've watched YouTube "guides for multiple enemies".

I am terrible at combat. I've never pulled off a combo intentionally. I never feint. Seldom dodge. Still win.

It works. it's enjoyable. For me at least.
Last edited by MacSuibhne; Nov 11, 2021 @ 5:45am
hoot hoot Oct 29, 2021 @ 7:51am 
Originally posted by MacSuibhne:
...

I do expect a game that forces you into fights with multiple enemies to provide the player with a combat system that is intuitive and easy to use, though difficult to master. What I'm experiencing here is more of a system that is designed for a 1v1 scenario while you're often forced into fighting multiple enemies. It's not always intuitive, either.

When I fight more than one enemy, a move I often see is that Henry will rush forward and be thrown around by the enemy even when no enemy touched me and I didn't move forward. This has happened so many times. I get that it's supposed to be some grapple to put me in a bad position, but it's just hard to anticipate or dodge a move that you cant see coming until it's happening since no enemy actually seems to touch me for it to happen.

And as much as I'd like to not use the lock on system, the soft lock on happens no matter what you do. It feels clunky.

Look, I genuinely like KCD and I'm going to finish it, but I'm far from the only person who feels the game's combat is clunky. I applaud their efforts to make it realistic, but something about it feels like the player doesn't have as much control as they should.

And ultimately I was just hoping for specific advice. I probably just need to go do more practice fights. I have my stats at 13, but maybe I need them even higher? Idk.
MacSuibhne Oct 29, 2021 @ 8:13am 
Well, there's an easy solution (that, just coincidentally, mirrors real life) and is probably the basic idea that everyone who enjoys, and is at least adequate with the 1vmany combat, uses to one extent or another--as far as is possible, turn every 1vmany fight into a 1v1.

Agro opponents out of a camp and take them on one at a time. Keep backing or sidestepping, all the while focusing on the guy in front of you. Shoot them with arrows. Use Mutt. For me, that's all intuitive and easy to use.

The lock on has a purpose. I know it. I appreciate it. I use it in tourney. I have never (except real recently) used it, or concerned myself with it, in 1vmany. I was too busy surviving.

I don't expect this game to hold my hand--there is a strategy or a tactic or a solution for every problem you face in this game...sometimes several. I play a 'tank'. That's always been my 'style' in every game. But you know you can play this game all the way to the end without killing anyone but Runt.

All by way of demonstrating that if you can't handle the combat, avoid it.
Last edited by MacSuibhne; Nov 11, 2021 @ 5:46am
MacSuibhne Oct 29, 2021 @ 8:55am 
BTW, and FWIW, everyone experience issues with 1vmany and melee, even npcs.

I was in Vranik several days ago (real time) and it struck me that it doesn't matter who you are, if you're outnumbered you're gonna be flanked and hit repeatedly from opponents in back of you and eventually be overwhelmed.

At the gate to the upper camp there were some hapless bandits that had literally three men hammering away on them and even then Henry felt compelled to rush in and add his two cents worth to kill the guy. Was that "fair?"

That's the way the game is designed.

Read the rules, accept the rules, understand the rules, & play by the rules--everybody wins. That applies to the overall design and the mechanics, as well.
Last edited by MacSuibhne; Oct 29, 2021 @ 9:05am
SUPERGLUE Oct 29, 2021 @ 9:10am 
A few actually useful hints:

You mentioned being ambushed, I assume you mean while using fast travel. There are 3 perks, Scout 1 - 3, in the main level tab that will allow you to safely sneak around and see who ambushed you. You will get two options, try to escape or something else, like stay and fight or what ever it says. If you have Scout 3 the enemies will never be able to see you or aggro unless you want them to, this a good time to take one or two out with your bow.

If you have a horse and a bow, and as you mentioned, the horse doesnt instantly throw you off, just ride around and shoot them with the bow.

Always keep your weapons poisoned, if you stab 2 or 3 of the bandits with a poisoned weapon its basically just a matter of staying alive long enough for them to die.

The game is full of bugs and bugged places you can get to but bandits cannot, this can be very useful. Look for anything that Henry can jump onto and is also covering a large enough area that the bandits will not be able to reach you with their weapons, and shoot them with your bow.

You might be noticing a theme here, the bow. I think the bow is the best weapon in the game for two reasons: Range and No f-ing lock on!

The strongest bow (Yew longbow) with the best arrows(Better piercing arrow), both of which are fairly easy to get your hands on, although the bow requires a strength of 15... These two combined will kill almost any high level, full plate wearing, usain speeding, bandit in 2 - 5 hits. Poisoned arrows will obviously decrease this but takes longer than just shooting them over and over. Faceshots on enemies with open face helmets are instant kills.
MacSuibhne Oct 29, 2021 @ 10:54am 
Originally posted by SUPERGLUE:
You mentioned being ambushed, I assume you mean while using fast travel.

As mentioned above ("use arrows") the bow is good, esp. if you can't hack, or would rather not go to the effort of, armed combat.

As far as the horse and fast travel, Pebbles won't get it--she will throw you almost every time.

Save up. Get a good horse. I like Kanthaka but there are others that are just as good--balance out courage (most important) with speed and carrying capacity. I can ride (canter) right through the middle of six Cumans in the middle of the road and never worry about being unhorsed. With a good horse you can use a sword and stab opponents as you ride by. Instant kill shot, if the timing is right.

You can actually ride a horse, at a canter, anywhere, faster than you can fast travel there. I never have understood why Fast Travel was put into the game.

If you have Mutt he will start growling before you get close enough to be ambushed. You could probably even stick with Pebbles if you had Mutt and didn't fast travel. No harm no foul, no onerous expenses.
Last edited by MacSuibhne; Oct 29, 2021 @ 10:57am
wjpower2003 Oct 29, 2021 @ 11:55am 
The best way to avoid getting unhorsed in the early stages of the game is to run to Neuhof as soon as you can and steal The Warhorse Jenda (without being seen).

You can then get around much easier without being unhorsed due to Jenda's high courage rating btu just be careful to only ever dismount and mount Jenda in a concealed place like behind a building (if people see you mounting a stolen horse, they will call for the guards).

The longer you are on horseback, the quicker and sooner your horsemanship skill will increase and the sooner you will open up new horsemanship perks.
2GenL Oct 29, 2021 @ 12:42pm 
Learn combos. Some are good for crowd management since they knock people over and some are good for dealing high damage to targets
Hence way capt. bernard says "you must train"
Last edited by 2GenL; Oct 29, 2021 @ 12:43pm
DargonBlak Oct 29, 2021 @ 1:39pm 
Originally posted by Castyles:
https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/1243

https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/1236

Excellent suggestions, although i promise the second one is only needed for beginners - once you learn the techniques the others are talking about (and the battle cadence), you wont need that mod anymore.

I have been testing the first mod, and i now run simply by turning off Master Strikes (and Hardcore always) - and this alone makes the 1vN combat actually doable. You will still get crushed if ur stupid, or don't use some strategy - which should happen - but having all NPCs know Master Strikes is just plain stupid - especially becuz it is such a clunky and janky implementation (slow motion ? Really ? Ur screwing with my timing dude !).

So, disable Master Strikes AND NEVER Learn Them Yourself (to keep it fair). Perfect Blocks still happen, but Much Better Combat (COmbat Wheel, Feints, and combos still work).

Everyone here who proclaims they love Master Strikes, or that having all NPCs know Master Strikes belongs, well, those players simply get to Captain Bernard as quickly as possible and then train Henry up to 10+ skill Level as quickly as possible (in a few hours) and learn Master Strikes, justy to level the playing field - Completely Unrealistic and Completely Cheesy, but that's what they do...

I prefer to have Henry explore the Open World as a Rogue when he first shows up in Rattay - way more fun and, oh, realistic too.
Last edited by DargonBlak; Oct 29, 2021 @ 1:42pm
Valden21 Oct 29, 2021 @ 1:56pm 
-Train with Capt. Bernard as much as you can. The lessons you learn in those 1-on-1 sessions apply to combat against multiple enemies just as well.
-Use the tourney as a training opportunity, just like training with Capt. Bernard.
-Potions. Before I head into battle against multiple opponents, I always make sure I have Aqua Vitalis, Artimesia, Buck's Blood, and Embrocation potions. Drinking those four potions just before entering combat makes things easier.
-Keep your equipment in top condition.
-Learn to predict enemy actions. For instance, if an enemy charges at you, 99% of the time, that means he's going to attack.
-Enemy archers can be of use to you, if you move so that they're firing through one of their allies. I've seen enemies fall because their archer buddies were trying to shoot at me and hitting them instead.
Faded Oct 29, 2021 @ 3:14pm 
I have 24 hours in kingdom come and have taken out multiple bandit camp quests, and have also taken on and destroyed cuman camp quests.

My biggest success was a cuman camp with me winning solo against 5 cumans.

My advice is visit the potion man in rattay near the church and buy a few potions that help with stamina, taking less damage, and increase your health over 5 minutes. Drink them all right before you walk up to the bandit or cuman camps.

You dont need 500 hours to be able to win against 5 cumans.

I like that its very hard. Its a nice change from other games that allow you to fight off massive hoards easily. In kingdom come its more realistic and feeling accomplished to slay even just 2 bandits.
wjpower2003 Oct 29, 2021 @ 4:34pm 
Originally posted by Faded:
I have 24 hours in kingdom come and have taken out multiple bandit camp quests, and have also taken on and destroyed cuman camp quests.

My biggest success was a cuman camp with me winning solo against 5 cumans.

My advice is visit the potion man in rattay near the church and buy a few potions that help with stamina, taking less damage, and increase your health over 5 minutes. Drink them all right before you walk up to the bandit or cuman camps.

You dont need 500 hours to be able to win against 5 cumans.

I like that its very hard. Its a nice change from other games that allow you to fight off massive hoards easily. In kingdom come its more realistic and feeling accomplished to slay even just 2 bandits.

You have 24 hours in KCD? Your very open game inventory history begs to differ Chief!
Faded Oct 29, 2021 @ 4:58pm 
Originally posted by wjpower2003:
Originally posted by Faded:
I have 24 hours in kingdom come and have taken out multiple bandit camp quests, and have also taken on and destroyed cuman camp quests.

My biggest success was a cuman camp with me winning solo against 5 cumans.

My advice is visit the potion man in rattay near the church and buy a few potions that help with stamina, taking less damage, and increase your health over 5 minutes. Drink them all right before you walk up to the bandit or cuman camps.

You dont need 500 hours to be able to win against 5 cumans.

I like that its very hard. Its a nice change from other games that allow you to fight off massive hoards easily. In kingdom come its more realistic and feeling accomplished to slay even just 2 bandits.

You have 24 hours in KCD? Your very open game inventory history begs to differ Chief!

Its called xbox lol. My potato cant run kingdom come
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Date Posted: Oct 29, 2021 @ 4:12am
Posts: 89