Fighting with swords

[𝐎ᥣᑯ𝐑𝖾ᑯ𝐅ⱺ𝗑]

Does it really need to be this confusing? I've been gaming for decades. I've never encountered such an odd and unnatural method of combat. I've watched countless videos in my efforts to get to grips with it. I still can't do so. I have an XBox controller. I might have to use that and see if it helps. But really, surely this needs looking at?

[GrannYgraine]

I'm not a great fighter in RPGs but, with some training, I have found my way with this fighting style. It helped a lot to fight in the Rattay Tourney to study how to handle combat. Watching how my opponents moves and studying attacks helps tremendously. This, along with training with Bernard, lead to my being able to take out a camp of 6 or so Cumans with the help of Mutt, a real warhound.
I am on PC but I am bedbound so a keyboard is not an option for me. I do use an XBox controller. Give it a go. It may be a turning point for you.

[CalicoJack]

no problem here with kb&mouse.

the controls and combat are intuitive and rather simple but a little finess is required to become better.
you just need to know how it works! and your "decades of gaming" dont matter here if you just dont know yet how this works!

look up the controls.
read the ingame tutorials and hints.
train with and listen to Bernard.

littlde advice:
i always use the "run" button(on LeftShift) to unlock from my current target, which is useful in certain situations.
*it allows to switch targets (which has its own dedicated button i think) to prevent enemies from surrounding you.
*it also makes "dodging" the enemy sword possible (i dont mean the dedicated "dodge" move which is ALSO applicable if you learn it) by moving back a little or going left or right while holding "run" button shortly. this allows for better footwork when used appropriately during a fight.

this helped me a lot, even in 1v1 fights.

[𝐎ᥣᑯ𝐑𝖾ᑯ𝐅ⱺ𝗑]

Thank you both. I don't understand the star. I see part of it turn red and I know this indicates I should do something but I only have two moves.

Before this game I played Ryse: Son of Rome. Very different game I know but the combat system was much better. I hadn't played that before CalicoJack, like any game I play, but they've all been much easier to play.

I will keep at it. I'll try the controller ygraineogf. I have Asperger's Syndrome and too many processes really do put me off. The keyboard may just be too much for me.

[Valden21]

Origineel geplaatst door Running Red Fox:

Thank you both. I don't understand the star. I see part of it turn red and I know this indicates I should do something but I only have two moves.

Before this game I played Ryse: Son of Rome. Very different game I know but the combat system was much better. I hadn't played that before CalicoJack, like any game I play, but they've all been much easier to play.

I will keep at it. I'll try the controller ygraineogf. I have Asperger's Syndrome and too many processes really do put me off. The keyboard may just be too much for me.

The star is for controlling which direction your slashing attack comes from. You can aim your slashing attack with the mouse, or with the right thumbstick if you're using a controller. When part of the star is red, that's the direction your attack is coming from; if the upper-right of the star, your slash is going to be coming from there. I also advise you to use a controller. Like you, I too have Asperger's, and the controller makes things easier.

[SUPERGLUE]

The star indicates which direction your next strike will come from, based on your current mouse / controller movement. While, as you say, you have two moves, you can direct them from diferent sides and angles.
A red arn or what ever you would call the parts of the star in the 12 o clock position means you will strike from overhead, 3 o clock means a strike from around elbow height on the right hand side. If your opponent is holding their sword high, striking from below might be a good idea.
This is needlessly complicated by design but I still think the game is worth the time and frustration combat takes.

[DargonBlak]

Origineel geplaatst door Running Red Fox:

Does it really need to be this confusing? I've been gaming for decades. I've never encountered such an odd and unnatural method of combat. I've watched countless videos in my efforts to get to grips with it. I still can't do so. I have an XBox controller. I might have to use that and see if it helps. But really, surely this needs looking at?

Other folks are providing sufficient instruction, so i wont repeat too much.

Most of all, the combat is "Aim then Strike" - and has a very slow tempo (compared to typical hack & slash)

Lean back, take your time, Block a lot, jab 2-3 times, Block some more, and step backwards often.

1v1 is very controllable while 1vN feels like chaos thanks to staggering effect and every NPC in the world knowing what is called "Master Strikes" (the slow motion block with riposte)

It's not easy, but you will get used to it - just lean back and give it time.

[𝐎ᥣᑯ𝐑𝖾ᑯ𝐅ⱺ𝗑]

Thank you everyone. Hey Valden21. Nice to encounter you here.

[CalicoJack]

also, watch how your opponent reacts to your movement. look at his arms and the direction he is walking.
he will often change his stance depending on how YOU move and hold your weapon.
youll notice that the AI adjusts its weapon stance and foot positioning in a way that it can better block an attack from you in your current stance.
but it will also try to attack you and thats where it can make many mistakes.

you can walk in the directions where his weapon or shield is less useful.
when locked into fighting position try to be the dominant dance partner, you can lead the way and use your surroundings to your advantage.

when you see the enemy awaiting your attack e.g. from above, try to attack surprisingly from another direction.
you can actually faint your attacks in KCD =O

by knowing the enemies movement you can also predict some attacks and instead of blocking or countering, you can even intercept with a faster attack of yours! Bruce Lee Style =P

also keep in mind you only have so much stamina, which is needed for you to attack and block effectively. good thing stamina can be trained and since enemies are also affected by it you could try to tire him out.

also, also you could just posion everyone with various potions available to buy or brew.
put poison on your weapon or into their food, its your choice!
or dont even fight and just run away, its your choice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozYaB5WrD_0

[MacSuibhne]

Origineel geplaatst door Running Red Fox:

Does it really need to be this confusing? I've been gaming for decades. I've never encountered such an odd and unnatural method of combat. I've watched countless videos in my efforts to get to grips with it. I still can't do so. I have an XBox controller. I might have to use that and see if it helps. But really, surely this needs looking at?

It really isn't that confusing if you set aside all the other hack and slash games you've played. It actually offers you more control over your actions than any other game out there.

You decide where you're gonna hit the opponent. You decide what kind of strike you will execute. You decide whether to feint or dodge or clinch. You decide when to attack and when to defend.

And spamming the attack button (as many tend to do in other games) is the worst thing you can do in KCD. Here timing is everything.

I play on kb&m. And I am at somewhat of a disadvantage physically as compared to most gamers. But I have taken on and defeated bandit camps and encounters with 6-8 opponents--just myself and Mutt on foot.

Once you realize that nothing is handed to you in this game and that your hand will not be held... that you have to train yourself as much as Henry... you may find that you like and enjoy the combat as much or more than any other element of the game. I did. IMO, it's the best sword fighting game I've ever experienced.

[Valden21]

OP, the best way to get better at the combat in this game is to do two things. The first, and most important thing, is to accept that sometimes, you're gonna lose. It happens to everyone who plays the game, and accepting that is crucial to getting better. It'll put you into the correct mindset and make you more open to the other part of getting better, which is training. As part of the story, you go through a training session with Captain Bernard; this one session won't make you good at combat, but it WILL put you on the road to that. If you keep training with him when you have the chance, expertise will arrive with time. It also helps out to do the "Tourney" sidequest, which unlocks pretty quickly into the main story; it's a repeatable (once per in-game week) sidequest that puts you in a series of 1-v-1 fights against opponents. It's really good for training because even if you lose (and you will, at first), your skills will improve and you'll get some practice. Above all, DON'T GIVE UP!

[Lieste]

The star indicates which guard your sword will rest in. It is the start position of any cut or thrust, and also dictates which foot is held back (the foot on the side the sword is held is usually back, and each step changes the guard direction, or a change in guard or a cut comes with the step needed to cut efficiently. While thrusts go to the centre (body for the four normal guards, and the face for the high guard (which itself can be entered from either side)) they still have a side and footwork, and will swap the next guard from which a cut will originate.

When cutting 'simply' a cut will flow up and down the same diagonal line - e.g. high right > low left > high right etc, and you can change the cutting line by shifting the mouse slightly - only a small 'circle' around the middle of the screen is needed - push from the end point of the cut to the start of the next intended cut once the first cut is underway. The top guard can only be entered from another attack by changing the cutting line, cuts from the top will go to the 'opposite' low guard depending on your foot work when you enter.

You don't need to shift guards to block or parry - just hold or tap the 'Q' button and Henry will cut into the opponent's sword as needed (which is a trivial task mostly instinctive IRL). Once you have 'covered' your opponent's line of attack he may 'flit' or 'fail' to a new opening, so blocking by holding is not your best option in most cases. A short tap is a much better choice. At first it is only an attack on the opponent's weapon, but with skills you can learn from your trainer you can learn to use timing and movement to offend your opponent in the same moment as you defeat his attack.
You don't need to be locked onto a specific attacker in order to defend yourself - as long as you time the defence action to his threat you will temporarily/permanently switch attention to his weapon and him - I find this disorienting in the soft lock mode as the change is permanent and I have to actively re-select my target choice. I prefer the "TAB" hardlock mode, where this 'beat' is only momentary and I will re-attack the enemy I identified as 'most vulnerable' or 'most dangerous' once the immediate threat is past. I can use target controls to scroll the target list, or break the lock and pan around with the mouse to find a new 'highest priority' target if I choose.

The red line is the one from which your next attack will flow. A white highlight indicates the next attack direction for one of your learned devices/combinatory attacks, and 'greyed' points indicate terrain obstacles which restrict attacks from that side (e.g. you are hard up against a wall or tree). You can still thrust from that side, but until you move away you cannot cut where the cutting line is blocked.

For combination attacks, there are two kinds - those which require you to make a single change to the cutting line mid-way, and those which can be completed without any change to the line. The latter sort are by far the easier to deliver under pressure.

[Natasha]

There's a lot of armchair warriors in this post, shows us a video of you perfectly executing the complicated 3-4 moves masterstrikes. I have a mod that gives you slightly more time to execute them and this mod also change which enemies have them and not, something that should have been in the game from the beginning.

Bandits does not know masterstrikes, so no more parry and master strike counters like bots, instead their health was increased and damage to make up for this loss.

Knights and sellswords know them but they also make mistakes like yourself.

Cumans do not know masterstrikes, instead they get their own and more damage and health to make up for it.

As you know the ai Cheats with masterstrikes so much that most of yours will be used against you while you're doing them, this is why i know with confidence that nobody can do them consistently, not without mods.

This mod also removes the cutting edge perfection the AI has with parries and strikes and implement mistakes. I know the AI was made this way for challenge, but it's really not challenging just tedious.

Hopefully with a bigger budget they will be able to make a better game.

This is actually two mods, one of them is on nexus, the other is on moddb.

Mods has made combat so much better than vanilla is, vanilla is really not realistic combat.

[CalicoJack]

Origineel geplaatst door Natasha:

There's a lot of armchair warriors in this post,

yeah, after reading your post i think you are probably right!

what a lot of armchair warriors you are...
thanks for the warning!

[MacSuibhne]

Origineel geplaatst door Natasha:

i know with confidence that nobody can do them consistently, not without mods.

That's not confidence, that's arrogance.

In point of fact, the tourney can be won repeatedly until the end of the game, using Master Strikes alone.

"Misplaced confidence is the well-spring of idiocy."

[MF]

Origineel geplaatst door Running Red Fox:

Does it really need to be this confusing? I've been gaming for decades. I've never encountered such an odd and unnatural method of combat. I've watched countless videos in my efforts to get to grips with it. I still can't do so. I have an XBox controller. I might have to use that and see if it helps. But really, surely this needs looking at?

Get your strength up so you can win clinches. Use that to browbeat Bernard into teaching you masterstrike and the world is your oyster. After a riposte the enemy is usually very vulnerable to a strike, either in the back or straight down on the head, where you can knock him out a percentage of the time.

The combat is fine, but it takes time and practice you dirty little peasant. It is incredibly rewarding once you find your groove. I'm a tournament junky now, and I literally roam the forests looking for bad people to fight.