Should you ever train with real weapons?

[nottheguywhotookyour2cent]

I dont see how its better then wooden swords.

[vine]

You don't get to train with wooden axe or wooden mace, so if you want to practice them, only the real McCoy will do.

[theo]

I always assumed it gives more experience. Haven't measured it but it feels like it's true

[MacSuibhne]

Originally posted by vine:

You don't get to train with wooden axe or wooden mace, so if you want to practice them, only the real McCoy will do.

Not sure what you're saying--I train with wooden swords, axes and maces every time I'm in Rattay. Sometimes both in a day.

Everything I've learned translates to real combat.

That said, my waffenrock and other kit get damaged even with wooden weapons...and I have to go get them repaired (or do it myself) before I head out. I shudder to think how bad they'd be if we used real weapons.

[vine]

Originally posted by MacSuibhne:

Originally posted by vine:

You don't get to train with wooden axe or wooden mace, so if you want to practice them, only the real McCoy will do.

Not sure what you're saying--I train with wooden swords, axes and maces every time I'm in Rattay. Sometimes both in a day.

wait really am i that rusty? haven't been to him for long.. i'll see about that :)

[theo]

Wooden mace is actually a 'real' weapon, too (deals damage unlike a light wooden sword) so in a way you're not incorrect

[vine]

Originally posted by theo:

Wooden mace is actually a 'real' weapon, too (deals damage unlike a light wooden sword) so in a way you're not incorrect

I heard of clubs or bats or, as we as kids did, use pickax wood for baseball bats. I'm bootin it up, helping Capon get laid and checkin on wooden axe training with Bernie :D

[Lieste]

In game, as IRL, it is easy to train with rebated or non metal swords. Without an edge a sword is not terribly dangerous to be hit by - I'd prefer to wear a padded jacket, elbow cops, and a face covering to save my eyes, but 'just a shirt' is doable if your training partner is not a donkey, and you are doing technique training.

Even wooden or rubber axes/maces/halberds require a *lot* more restraint, again you can do technique training with 'just a shirt'... but as soon as you think about sparring, they become potentially lethal weapons - just too much weight too far from the hand, and too much impact.

But. In game there are indeed, wooden polearms, axes and maces as well as the wooden swords, but they behave like real ones, and Bernard can be a bilbo, as can Henry... and they hit too hard with the training tools. They hit less "too hard" than the real iron and edged versions, but not by enough to make them 'safe'.

It is worth 'testing' in the arena that you are getting the techniques down... and the 'game' of treating the injuries as real is useful before you go and try the same thing with someone who will actually kill you if they win. I would prefer more 'non injury' techniques - disarms, takedowns and throws etc to go with a less - 'to the death' type of tournament and training.

[vine]

I am that rusty i see it.

[CalicoJack]

Originally posted by udUbdaWgz:

However, my question is, Why wouldnt you use real weapons?

because as a beginner your trainer will just smack you down in seconds and therefore Henry gains a lot less experience than in a longer training session with wooden weapons.

[theo]

Well if that was real life I'd never train with real weapons, it's a pointless risk and unnecessary damage to weapons and armor I'm supposed to train with

[MacSuibhne]

[quote=udUbdaWgz;2993171056512690824

However, my question is, Why wouldnt you use real weapons? [/quote]

Well, my take is this:

First, unless I am roleplaying a pacifist or a sneaker, I am constantly engaging real enemies with real edged weapons. So talking about roleplaying a coward is overstating and even a bit inflammatory--the lessons you learn from sparring translate near-as-nevermind one for one.

Second, Bernard offers to train with real weapons...presumably dulled. I dunno. In my estimation, I might be ready. I won the Tourny today without really breaking a sweat.

Thirdly, the tourney is real weapons and blood is drawn. (None of mine thankfully)

Fourthly, I suspect that a real medieval warrior would have done strength exercises and sparred (with wooden weapons...at least while learning...on a daily and day long basis. Being warrior was a full time job. Spend a whole KCD day (or for the hard core freaks, a whole real-life day) training with Bernard.

Sweat, sweat, sweat. That's what it's all about.

[MacSuibhne]

Originally posted by theo:

Well if that was real life I'd never train with real weapons, it's a pointless risk and unnecessary damage to weapons and armor I'm supposed to train with

That's a good point...should have been my "fifthly" :D

[DobbyBaby]

I assumed that training with real weapons let Henry earn experience more quickly, probably to imitate the reality of actual steel weapons behaving differently than wooden. At some point, to better ones skills, you have to experience the physics of a real weapon.

I never tried it though. Bernard kicks my ass as it is with the wooden sword. Hell ♥♥♥♥ me up real good with a real weapon. It now that you bring it up, I think I’m gonna try it.

[MacSuibhne]

Remember that wooden weapons aren't a figment of KCD's imagination--that was the way all warriors were trained. And wooden weapons were weighted to feel and handle like real weapons.

I think it is ...like everything in the game...a carefully considered progression. You start out not knowing how to handle any weapon, progress (through training) to wooden weapons, take your chances and have your eyes opened, and be loodied in actual combat, and eventually move on to practicing with real weapons...or fighting in the Tourney

[Lieste]

While wooden swords did exist I think their role in training is overemphasised, as well as their similarity to the 'real deal', particularly in regards to dynamic balance and 'feel'.

I find the use of rebated swords to be more likely for advanced training and developing the proper reactions and responses under pressure (that is steel, but with out a honed edge - by the C16th century, taking on a 'narrowed' but thickened 'squarish' form of the feder that you still see in a less refined form (they tend to be more uniform in thickness rather than tapering, at least for mass production blades), but aiming for a similar dynamic to a sharp sword, without the extreme risks of fencing in earnest or for play with a sharp point and edge.
Fights scored by producing a bleeding wound were still not uncommon, but it was considered bad form to kill your fencing partner.