Dialogue checks don't make sense?

[SpeedyParticles]

If I have an 18 (in "threaten") and the other person has a 9 (in the same field), how is it that Henry still "fails" the persuasion attempt? Is it yet another bug? Or is this how it's... "supposed" to work?

[Connobar]

I've wondered the same. I just make sure my I'm washed up and no blood on sword, plus have good charisma.

[SpeedyParticles]

It's just unintuitive and lame. If your sword was bloody, that should factor into that number being displayed (possibly boost the "threaten" number visibly). I think the entire system is horribly broken. for instance, I tried a regular "persuade" attempt (that had me and the other person's number relatively even) and weirdly enough, that one worked. So from what I can tell, the numbers are 100% irrelevent and have zero impact on the actual outcomes - it's all determined by the "speech" skill, and for some silly reason, the "speech" skill is NOT factored into those goofy numbers being displayed... rendering those number all but useless.

If anyone has some knowledge of the inner working of the "dialogue mechanics" go ahead and feel free to tell me I'm wrong about this. I hope I'm wrong...

[kth]

Even game tells you that you should read what you say and numbers matter only in certain situations. You cant threat a group of well armed bandits or citywatch, or you can not win a coversation while having charisma stat higher than your opponent's one when your dialog choice makes no sense.
Some conversations have 3 choices with charisma stat check but only one is actually correct.

[SpeedyParticles]

Originally posted by (((Полосатий Кiт))):

Even game tells you that you should read what you say and numbers matter only in certain situations. You cant threat a group of well armed bandits or citywatch, or you can not win a coversation while having charisma stat higher than your opponent's one when your dialog choice makes no sense.
Some conversations have 3 choices with charisma stat check but only one is actually correct.

I agree, I don't expect totally outragious choices to work, but I was also under the impression that through having Henry look and act in a certain way (like having 20 Strength and bloody clothes and so on) that you could possibly make a "wrong" option lean towards being more viable... for example if "bribery" works the very best, but an insanly strong psychopath covered from head-to-tow in gallons of blood could possibly get away with an "intimidate" even if it's "the wrong" choice. so if that's NOT the case, as you've stated (and I agree with), then this game simply boils down to "pick the right option" in quests, instead of actual role playing and problem solving (beyond the basics, that is)... like a said, it feels a bit disapointing.

[Lieste]

Role playing by 'choosing the most appropriate choice' is more 'complete' than merely comparing numbers in a comparison.

You often can investigate, observe and find out information which guides you to a conversation option which is favourable. Using your strongest trait to try to force the conversation may not be the most favourable. Many people become obstructive, secretive or confrontational if threatened. Others might dig in their heels if they feel they are being manipulated crassly.

[showler]

Even then a higher stat will only lean things in your favor. The RNG still has final say.

Think of it as rolling a one on your skill check. Your gonna need one hell of a bonus to make that work.

[SouP]

I haven't seen any RNG in dialogue personally. Some dialogue choices simply do not work in certain situations, irrespective of whether your stats are comparable. Some people will not respond to force, and others will not respond to coercion or status. So like as has been said, rather than trying to brute force it with numbers, try to think about the situation and how that person has already been treated.

A good example of this for me is Neuhof during the main quest. There's a person you can ask for information from, who was just questioned by a guard before you. He's already upset and reacting badly to being attacked by ruffians and now interrogated by guards. Even if you look meaner than him he may simply not back down. It is better to take a diplomatic route, even helping him if you can so that he calms down.