failing and succeeding speech checks

[Mutad0r]

I have 2 more speech than the opponent. Why do I fail? I have 8 more of the threatening symbol ( crossed swords) and I fail that too....

[Magnus Aurelius, Bright Lord]

you fail if your opponent has a higher level than you.

[Isha]

I think it's just a dice roll. I've noticed I lose checks sometimes too.

No idea what the numbers mean. Odds maybe?

[Maelos]

Yeah, had the same thing happen to me, only it was with the intimidation option only... Probably a bug.

[Isha]

Originally posted by Hobotango:

you fail if your opponent has a higher level than you.

level in what? Speech?

[Goodly Iguana]

10 isn't the max, 20 is. If you get the empathy perk you can see whoever you're trying to persuade's stats. It literally tells you that speech isn't always the best choice, sometimes charisma (the heart with a crown) or threats (the crossed swords) are better choices. For example:
In this scenario,
You have 10 speech, 8 charisma, threat isn't an option. With empathy you'll see they have
NPC has: 15 speech, 6 charisma.

Your speech might be higher, but charisma is the one that will actually persuade the person in that scenario. Get empathy when you can.

[Mutad0r]

Well I got drunk and tried the intimidation again.. this time it worked.. maybe because drunk people are more intimidating.

[Isha]

Originally posted by Goodly Iguana:

10 isn't the max, 20 is. If you get the empathy perk you can see whoever you're trying to persuade's stats. It literally tells you that speech isn't always the best choice, sometimes charisma (the heart with a crown) or threats (the crossed swords) are better choices. For example:
In this scenario,
You have 10 speech, 8 charisma, threat isn't an option. With empathy you'll see they have
NPC has: 15 speech, 6 charisma.

Your speech might be higher, but charisma is the one that will actually persuade the person in that scenario. Get empathy when you can.

So speech skill only matters in the case of a tie between charisma level? The person with the higher charisma always wins?

[PenguinJoe]

Originally posted by Goodly Iguana:

10 isn't the max, 20 is. If you get the empathy perk you can see whoever you're trying to persuade's stats. It literally tells you that speech isn't always the best choice, sometimes charisma (the heart with a crown) or threats (the crossed swords) are better choices. For example:
In this scenario,
You have 10 speech, 8 charisma, threat isn't an option. With empathy you'll see they have
NPC has: 15 speech, 6 charisma.

Your speech might be higher, but charisma is the one that will actually persuade the person in that scenario. Get empathy when you can.

I think what they mean is sometimes when you CAN see what thier numbers are.. through familiarity or empathy perk.. even IF you number is higher in the specific method you use.. sometimes substantially higher.. the check still fails.. it shouldn't unless there is something about the mechanic they arn't saying

I've seen it too.. I've had 12 vs 4.. and failed the check.. it was a charisma roll and my speech was also higher than thiers.

[Isha]

Originally posted by caches22:

Originally posted by Goodly Iguana:

10 isn't the max, 20 is. If you get the empathy perk you can see whoever you're trying to persuade's stats. It literally tells you that speech isn't always the best choice, sometimes charisma (the heart with a crown) or threats (the crossed swords) are better choices. For example:
In this scenario,
You have 10 speech, 8 charisma, threat isn't an option. With empathy you'll see they have
NPC has: 15 speech, 6 charisma.

Your speech might be higher, but charisma is the one that will actually persuade the person in that scenario. Get empathy when you can.

I think what they mean is sometimes when you CAN see what thier numbers are.. through familiarity or empathy perk.. even IF you number is higher in the specific method you use.. sometimes substantially higher.. the check still fails.. it shouldn't unless there is something about the mechanic they arn't saying

^

[tmaddox]

I don't think it is that simple. I sometimes think it is a case of not only comparing skills but paying attention to the actual response in question. In fact I think in the Speech tutorial they say as much.

I don't believe it is simply a straight skill check because then it would be a cakewalk, especially after you get the perk to show the other persons skill levels.

[Goodly Iguana]

In that scenario, you might have a decent speech stat (10) but the npc has a higher one (15). Whereas your charisma you might think is worse because its 8, but its higher than the NPC's charisma of 6. So what it means is that you shouldn't ALWAYS pick the higher number. Because the npc might be worse off in another stat that you could use to win the persuasion.

[MrFluffyWolf]

Originally posted by Goodly Iguana:

In that scenario, you might have a decent speech stat (10) but the npc has a higher one (15). Whereas your charisma you might think is worse because its 8, but its higher than the NPC's charisma of 6. So what it means is that you shouldn't ALWAYS pick the higher number. Because the npc might be worse off in another stat that you could use to win the persuasion.

They're literally saying their numbers are higher than the NPC's numbers, not another one of their own
When caches said he had a "14vs4 and failed," the 14 was HIS number, and the 4 was the NPC's number.
That WAS the stat the NPC was worse off in.

[brenelael]

The numbers are only part of the equation. How you look plays a part as well. For instance the more cleaner and fancier you look speech works better. Dirty and bloody threatening works better. High charisma and wearing clean plate armor will make the crown one work better.

If you're covered in mud and wearing unrepaired armor you aren't going to win many speech checks.

[Isha]

Originally posted by Goodly Iguana:

In that scenario, you might have a decent speech stat (10) but the npc has a higher one (15). Whereas your charisma you might think is worse because its 8, but its higher than the NPC's charisma of 6. So what it means is that you shouldn't ALWAYS pick the higher number. Because the npc might be worse off in another stat that you could use to win the persuasion.

So speech depends on charisma, intimidate on warfare maybe, and the crown/heart option (no idea what that icon means) depends on what?

[Goodly Iguana]

He edited the post. It didn't say that originally