Why can't henry wash himself on rivers?

[Venom Jesus]

I'm not trying to be nitpicky here, but it's a bit weird that we need to rely on peasant barrels in order to not be completely filthy.

[Evol_Prodigy]

Swim in the river.

[stevebullpasture]

He's scared of crawfish

[PartyMaster]

I mean...there is a skill in speech you can eventually learn to use bath house services for free.... that means all of them ;D

[EventHorizon]

Perhaps because most streams and rivers are polluted due to human activity... you know, much like how it is today?

Back then, if people didn't have an outhouse (loo) close by, they used buckets. These buckets would then be emptied onto the streets. Rain would wash away the excrement and filth... but where does the rain water end up? You guessed it.

[NewYears1978]

Too many dead bodies in there.

[Venom Jesus]

Originally posted by Hannador:

Perhaps because most streams and rivers are polluted due to human activity... you know, much like how it is today?

Back then, if people didn't have an outhouse (loo) close by, they use buckets. These buckets would then be emptied on the streets. Rain would wash away the excrement and filth... but where does the rain water end up? You guessed it.

Proper sanitation wasn't really a thing at the time. Even the game itself admits it with entries on the codex dedicated to the subject. Also, where do you think the bathhouses and common peasants got their water? That's right, the rivers.

Besides, you can't compare the filth in today's rivers with the rivers back then when the difference in population is so astronomical.

But then again, I'm no historian, so if you have any academical paper that proves me wrong, I'd love to take a look.

[EventHorizon]

Originally posted by Venom Jesus:

Originally posted by Hannador:

Perhaps because most streams and rivers are polluted due to human activity... you know, much like how it is today?

Back then, if people didn't have an outhouse (loo) close by, they use buckets. These buckets would then be emptied on the streets. Rain would wash away the excrement and filth... but where does the rain water end up? You guessed it.

Proper sanitation wasn't really a thing at the time. Even the game itself admits it with entries on the codex dedicated to the subject. Also, where do you think the bathhouses and common peasants got their water? That's right, the rivers.

Besides, you can't compare the filth in today's rivers with the rivers back then when the difference in population is so astronomical.

But then again, I'm no historian, so if you have any academical paper that proves me wrong, I'd love to take a look.

I wasn't trying to compare pollution levels of the 15th century vs. the 21st. Pollution contaminants and their levels from then till now were vastly different. They didn't have to deal with agricultural pesticide products nor heavy industrial grade oils and lubricants as we do today. But pollution is pollution, and most inhabitants avoided using water sources when they knew that their supply was contaminated from a source upstream. The Romans did, and so did the people during the Middle Ages.

As far as bathhouses go, how prevalent do you really think they were back then? I strongly disbelieve they were as common around villages and towns as much as a tavern or brothel... or a chapel or church even.

[vkotis]

I agree with the little things being most important. I was amazed to find that you actually have complete control over the grindstone and whatnot. Being able to knock on doors should’ve been a given. Being able to break locks should’ve been implemented as well.

[Venom Jesus]

Originally posted by Hannador:

I wasn't trying to compare pollution levels of the 15th century vs. the 21st. Pollution contaminants and their levels from then till now were vastly different. They didn't have to deal with agricultural pesticide products nor heavy industrial grade oils and lubricants as we do today. But pollution is pollution, and most inhabitants avoided using water sources when they knew that their supply was contaminated from a source upstream. The Romans did, and so did the people during the Middle Ages.

As far as bathhouses go, how prevalent do you really think they were back then? I strongly disbelieve they were as common around villages and towns as much as a tavern or brothel... or a chapel or church even.

According to the codex on the game itself, word-per-word: "There were bathouses in quite literally every town, and not in small numbers", followed later on by "In bohemia, there were baths in operation since the early Middle ages and their numbers rose steadily. There were 47 baths in prague in the second half of the 14th century and by the 15th century were attended not just by the well-to-do, but also by the poorer classes"

Now, I'm not trying to be rude, but you should really read what the developers themselves believe the middle ages to be like, before using faulty logic to justify the absence of certain features.

I really recommend you read the Codex and then come back to me. It's actually pretty interesting.

[EventHorizon]

Originally posted by Venom Jesus:

(snip) Now, I'm not trying to be a ♥♥♥♥, but you should really read what the developers themselves believe the middle ages to be like, before using faulty logic to justify the absence of certain features. (snip)

Yeah you are. The tone and body of your reply says it all. But I don't get bent out of shape over "words" on the internet. I've been breathing air in and out of my lungs far too long to get caught up in that rat trap.

But a game codex on life in Bohemia vs. what I said... the Middle Ages. The Middle Ages did not revolve around Bohemia alone, my friend.

[Venom Jesus]

Originally posted by Hannador:

Yeah you are. The tone and body of your reply says it all. But I don't get bent out of shape over "words" on the internet. I've been breathing air in and out of my lungs far too long to get caught up in that rat trap.

But a game codex on life in Bohemia vs. what I said... the Middle Ages. The Middle Ages did not revolve around Bohemia alone, my friend.

I really don't know how to reply to that. Do you mean to say you were talking about the middle ages *outside* of bohemia and using that to support your point on the features of a game set *in* medieval bohemia? I can't follow that logic at all.

Now, if you believe this is me trying to 'bent you out of shape', then by all means let's end the conversation. I think I've already made my point, and if you think I'm being malicious, there is really no point in trying persuade you to correct yourself.

[stevebullpasture]

In London maybe, but there were simply not enough people to pollute a river in villages like this. Refuse and pollution are also entirely different words. A castle which included maybe 100 people at most, and a village of say 400, that ain't doing nothing.

[EventHorizon]

Originally posted by Venom Jesus:

Originally posted by Hannador:

Yeah you are. The tone and body of your reply says it all. But I don't get bent out of shape over "words" on the internet. I've been breathing air in and out of my lungs far too long to get caught up in that rat trap.

But a game codex on life in Bohemia vs. what I said... the Middle Ages. The Middle Ages did not revolve around Bohemia alone, my friend.

I really don't know how to reply to that. Do you mean to say you were talking about the middle ages *outside* of bohemia and using that to support your point on the features of a game set *in* medieval bohemia? I can't follow that logic at all.

Now, if you believe this is me trying to 'bent you out of shape', then by all means let's end the conversation. I think I've already made my point, and if you think I'm being malicious, there is really no point in trying persuade you to correct yourself.

Let's get back to the meat of the subject. I'm not here to argue or throw dung on your freshly whitewashed walls here. if I came across as being smug or whatever the case, then I apologize.

Please know that I will not accept a game codex as "fact" nor will I accept a post as fact from a random internet forum user. I will concede the point of bathhouses being prevalent in medieval Bohemia... for now. I'm not arguing that point anymore and I am looking forward to reading about that factoid from a more credible source.

Now. you did say that "Where do you think the bathhouses and common peasants got their water? That's right, the rivers."... and I say that these rivers were utterly polluted. I cannot remember if it was a codex or if it was from a loading screen, but since you're keen on using in-game data to justify your argument, I do believe that it's stated somewhere in-game that the rivers and streams were polluted from human activity. But again, I'm not using that info source as "fact" either.

[Venom Jesus]

Originally posted by Hannador:

Originally posted by Venom Jesus:

I really don't know how to reply to that. Do you mean to say you were talking about the middle ages *outside* of bohemia and using that to support your point on the features of a game set *in* medieval bohemia? I can't follow that logic at all.

Now, if you believe this is me trying to 'bent you out of shape', then by all means let's end the conversation. I think I've already made my point, and if you think I'm being malicious, there is really no point in trying persuade you to correct yourself.

Let's get back to the meat of the subject. I'm not here to argue or throw dung on your freshly whitewashed walls here. if I came across as being smug or whatever the case, then I apologize.

Please know that I will not accept a game codex as "fact" nor will I accept a post as fact from a random internet forum user. I will concede the point of bathhouses being prevalent in medieval Bohemia... for now. I'm not arguing that point anymore and I am looking forward to reading about that factoid from a more credible source.

Now. you did say that "Where do you think the bathhouses and common peasants got their water? That's right, the rivers."... and I say that these rivers were utterly polluted. I cannot remember if it was a codex or if it was from a loading screen, but since you're keen on using in-game data to justify your argument, I do believe that it's stated somewhere in-game that the rivers and streams were polluted from human activity. But again, I'm not using that info as "fact" either.

That's fine, I'm not using anything here as fact either, but more as something the game assumes to be true, and therefore something that could be implemented within the context of the game. Like I said initially, I'm not a historian, and I also don't demand the game to be 100% historically accurate.

What I am saying, is that I think this useful and common sense mechanic could be compatible with what is already established within the world of Kingdom Come.

I was also not trying to put you down when I asked for a historical paper. I'm very much willing to learn, and if you can show me something proving to me that south-bohemia rivers were too devastated for human use, and showing me where else they got their water, I would gladly read it.

Like the other user said, there were just too few people to pollute the river in the manner you're describing, and that's what I believe in, but it's up for debate if I can see a source proving otherwise.

Also, next time you come across this tool-tip saying rivers were too polluted for use, I'd like to see the SS, just so I can see the exact wording



Edit: I'm going to sleep now, but feel free to post whatever and I will get back to you tomorrow. Good night

[EventHorizon]

Originally posted by Venom Jesus:

That's fine, I'm not using anything here as fact either, but more as something the game assumes to be true, and therefore something that could be implemented within the context of the game. Like I said initially, I'm not a historian, and I also don't demand the game to be 100% historically accurate.

What I am saying, is that I think this useful and common sense mechanic could be compatible with what is already established within the world of Kingdom Come.

I was also not trying to put you down when I asked for a historical paper. I'm very much willing to learn, and if you can show me something proving to me that south-bohemia rivers were too devastated for human use, and showing me where else they got their water, I would gladly read it.

I'm no historian either, but I'd like to believe that I'm somewhat versed in Roman culture and the Antiquity in general. Sure, I know that there's an apples and oranges kind of difference between the peoples of Antiquity and the Middle Ages, But I have read (and I need to track down where I found it), that most places had separation of usable drinking water and waste water.

The Romans, for example, had specifically built aqueducts to funnel water from hard water springs directly into their town. For the most part, these sources were not in connection to their waste sources at all. In Rome, and else where, they had facilities such as the Cloaca Maxima to remove their waste water... which emptied directly into the Tiber river or local streams.

Now, I believe I read that folks from the Middle Ages did the same, but not on the architectural scale of the Romans. They drew their water from ground and certain spring sources, but emptied their waste in the rivers both directly and indirectly... same as the Romans did. I'll have to track that data source down again. It's seems like ages since I read that article and it could be lost in the interwebs for all I know.