Master Striking Ruins The Combat System *Solution found*

[Jaymus]

EDITED POST DISCUSSION: Temporary Solution

Somebody created a mod to tweak/remove master striking. The choice is in your hands now.

https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/284?tab=files

Personally I do not think this is the perfect solution to the problem, but it is far better than playing with Master Strike as it is now *Go skip down to My Suggestions For A MasterStrike Rework *. Master Striking possibly could have been an awesome mechanic in the game to make it cool, challenging, and fun. However, master strike in its current state of now only serves to hinder the gameplay by making the player feel punished and frustrated for trying to use basic core mechanics of the game without cheesing it. I hope this thread reaches out to the developers so that they may clarify the true intention behind Master Striking.

Well it's been a fun up and down hill battle with this thread and the combat system requires more adjusting. I never expected this thread to go as big as it is now. This thread has left me too burnt out to critique other issues. Carry the torch for me my brothers.

Intro

Note: I have stirred some confusion for not noting this. Whenever I say riposte/parry, I refer to master striking, not when the enemy strikes back after "Normally" blocking.

Second Note: If you're not going to take your time to read this entire thread and post something that has already been talked about, then at least read the conclusion to hear my final thoughts on this mechanic.


I want to enjoy this game, I really do. It has exceeded most of my expectations to make it past as a decent RPG game, but I cannot help but be very disappointed and frustrated with the current melee system as it is now. I was first pretty disappointed to find out that blocking is done by just pressing Q instead of directional blocking like in Mount&Blade as it makes blocking feel bland and less satisfying. I chose to accept and tolerate this, but what I could not accept is how master striking works as it renders melee engagements unfair, unviable (Without cheesing), and not fun.

What Is Master Striking?

Master Striking is a mechanic that allows the user to deflect an opponent’s blow and attack at the same time. This is activated by perfect guarding (Pressing Q as soon as the opponent strikes) and there is a chance your character will automatically perform a parry which will deflect the blow and damage the opponent with an automatic unstoppable follow up attack.

DO NOT CONFUSE THIS WITH ATTACKING BACK AFTER A PERFECT BLOCK

Skip to the third minute of this video

https://youtu.be/eNdPuIbWskM?t=3m

What Is The Problem With It?

There is absolutely no counterplay to this mechanic at all rendering melee irritating and unviable. When an opponent Master Strikes your attack, you will become locked in an animation, unable to do anything as you witness your opponent deflecting your attack and then whispering into your ear “Just let it happen” as he proceeds to bopping your head with his pommel, kicking you in the groin, or thrusting his blade into your ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Once your opponent has master striked your attack, you are already dead.

Edit: I may have exagerated the damage of Master Strike, excuse my poor Fist of The North Star Memes. However, I still don't believe this justify free damage.

EVIDENCE: QUOTE FROM BERNARD - Third minute of video above.
"See? I parry and strike in one move. There's no defence against this technique if it's executed well. The thing is to time it right. Block right into your opponent's strike and match your movement to his. One elegant technique and the fight is won."


To make this mechanic worse, master strike is triggered by RNG by the opponent which makes this problem outside of the player’s controls. “Gitting Gud” will get you nowhere. Every time you strike at your opponent, there is a random chance that he will just master strike your attack. Remember of what the game taught you about feinting, attacking the opposite direction of your opponent’s sword stance and chaining strikes? You might as well throw that information out of the window because it doesn’t matter! Parrying God bandits disregard these rules of the game and will trigger Master Strike even if you feint, attack the opposite direction, or chain strikes. The AI is untrickable with an autoguard system with a slight chance guaranteeing to screw you over. This leaves most players such as myself feel cheated.

EDIT: Please do not misunderstand me that i am ok with the player abusing it himself.

EDIT 2: I am not complaining if the player's master strike is RNG, I am complaining that the trigger for the AI's trigget for Master strike is RNG. I do not care if the player's master strike is RNG or not However, I still do not believe that the player nor the AI should have access to such ability that gives them protection and free damage.

The only solutions to counter Master Striking as it is now is to not slash the opponent at all as slashing at your opponent is the equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot. The only true viable way to fight in duels is to have a 30 second staring contest to see who is stupid enough to swing his sword first for the second person to Master Strike. This makes most of the mechanics in the melee system absolutely useless. The other solution is to not engage melee at all in a medieval melee based game! Running in circles like a buffoon while quickscoping/shotgunning people with a bow is much more viable than engaging in melee.

What You May Say

“Git Gud”

You can not. The AI can't do anything about your master strikes nor can you do anything about theirs. The game tells you can't do anything about it.

"See? I parry and strike in one move. There's no defence against this technique if it's executed well. The thing is to time it right. Block right into your opponent's strike and match your movement to his. One elegant technique and the fight is won." - Bernard


Reread "What is the problem with Master Strikes"

“Just increase your stats”

1.I have won master archery competitions with level 0 archering three times in a row by using a bow that I did not have the stats for.
2. solo’d a group of bandits by running around like an idiot by quickscoping/shotgunning them with a bow around level 5.
3. Stolen loot worth more than few thousands of gold without getting caught with stealth and lockpicking below 6.

And I can’t have a decent 1v1 melee experience for a melee system that can barely support group fights unless my stats are above 10? (which they are). Inexcusable.

Edited: Some people has been informing me that the occurance of Master Strike will decrease as your stats level up. I do not believe such artifical mechanic is the right solution to make the player feel progress. Furthermore, people who have 15+ strength/longsword are still encountering the problem of being Master Striked.

Edited Note: By "Decent" I do not mean by my inability to defeat someone in melee. I refer to it as fun, fluid, and climatic. Master Strikes destroys the flow and enjoyment of exchanging blocks and parrys as it is unstoppable and automatic. It is not fun to rely on cheese strats or to one shot your opponent before he has the chance to Master Strike.

Yes, I appreciate the satisfaction of being able to fight properly after hard work of training. But I do not believe such artificial mechanic in which the player has no control over is the correct solution to the feel of progression.

"Just master strike them back or "Insert cheese strat"

Skip down to Conclusion and read the post that I have marked as my answer.

"It's for realism"
I am not critiquing this game as a medieval martial arts expert who watches every single Skalligram video, I am critiquing this as a gamer who happens to be a medieval dweeb.

Yes, a healthy balance between realism and gameplay can create a wonderful game, but how much gameplay are you willing to compromise for realism if the game will turn into a irritating and unplayable experience?

How Parrying Should Be Done

In Mount&Blade Warband, the player can perform a parry by swinging at the same direction of the opponent’s blade. This will cancel the opponents attack and the player who parried the attack will continue to swing his weapon at the opponent. However, the opponent who was just parried is not left helpless to be killed or gravely injured. He still has time to block the parry and move, but just has a fewer fraction of seconds to react to it. In Kingdom Come’s case, the player is 100% doomed to taking a hit after having his attack parried through a master strike. The main point is to give the person who was parried a fighting chance.

My Suggestions For A Master Strike Rework

I am no gaming developer and I don’t know how complicated it is to rework a part of a melee system in which had years of developing so I may not have the perfect solution, but this game is in dire need of allowing players to counter play against Master Strikes.

I could only think of couple of solutions without adding drastic changes to the melee system

1. Master Strike should only be triggered if the attacker strikes in the same direction in which the defender is holding his sword and successfully blocks the attack. This will allow feinting and choosing directions significantly viable. This will add counterplay to master striking and remove the RNG factor. It will be at least the player’s fault if he gets parried and pummeled for choosing to strike in the wrong direction.

2. Dealing and receiving a master strike does non-lethal damage and gives you a severely low amount of reaction time to react to the enemies follow up attacks after (maybe depending on your defense and agility stats)

3. Completely take it out of the game. This is my least favorable suggestion as it is a waste to see those animations go away. However, I would rather enjoy watching flurrying swords back and forth than to see the flow to be interuppted by an unstoppable mechanic.

I appreciate all the work put into this game. Most RPG’S recently have bored the crap out of me but this game has successfully kept me immersed and holding my attention. I really want this game to succeed as much as it can for all of the hard work put into this! But please do not let one single major flaw in the melee system to ruin everything! Thank you for reading and please let me know your opinion.

Post Discussion thoughts *EDITED*

A normal block by an enemy is followed by a normal swing in which the green shield may or may not appear. However the player is still given movement to retaliate.

A master strike is a block followed by an unstoppable animation of the attacker getting hit.
A few signs are:
- Being striked swiftly to the head
- Being jabbed 3 times to the stomach with the pommel of the sword
- Being kicked
- Opponent swiftly moves aside and instantly swipes at your opening

If the opponent follows up with a normal swing then you have not being Master Striked, it was a normal block.

I am stating this to make sure we are not confusing the difference between master striking and normal blocking.

EDITED 3: Wow, I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my argument. This is BEYOND evidence that Master Striking is UNSTOPPABLE and is a DETRIMENT to the game. I have added this to category "What Is Master Strike"

Conclusion and My Final Thoughts *Edited*

I never mentioned that the game is "hard", it just has an extremly flawed combat system. In its current state, it is designed to PUNISH the player for using the games BASIC CORE mechanics which is one of the worst design choices I've ever seen.

A lot of people don't seem to get that I have no issue with WINNING a battle. In fact it's really easy to abuse and I have only died once to master strike due to my unawarence of its presence in the game. The worst it does to me now is making me pay some armour bills and kill my fun.

Yes there are many methods to avoid and prevent master striking but all of these practical methods DISREGARD the BASIC CORE MECHANICS THAT THE GAME HAS TAUGHT YOU. If you think using tactics that disregard the core mechanics of this game is fine then you have not found the solution, you are RUNNING AWAY from the actual problem.

I don't want to use cheap tactics to win nor do I want to be punished due to a flaw to the game itself. I want well fought duels by utilizing what the game has teached me and wants me to use. I don't mind losing due to my own mistake, I want to enjoy playing and adepting to get better at the game. Preventing Master Strikes has no room for effort for improvement of the player as you can't improve what dice the game throws against you without modding it.

Master strike does not test the players melee skill, it tests the players ability on how to cheat it.

If this design is in fact what the developers imagined then why bother making a complex melee system if it's core mechanics are pointless and punishable? They might as well turn this into a turn based game.

Despite the heavy flaw of the combat system, I will continue to play and enjoy the other aspects of it.

This is all I have to say, but I will still be happy to reply to any disagreements you have.

[Jaymus]

Originally posted by paoweeotter:

Originally posted by Catsim:

whoa! Combine this with the "less powerful weapons" mod and it sounds like the game's combat could be salvaged.

From the conversation with renaissance_jew, i decided to take a closer look into cancel stance or "Abort Attack" (E) command and tested it against Bernard. It reduces the chance of getting Master Striked when going on the offensive. See for yourself:

I think this is an oversight and it should have been in the Feinting tutorial since it is essentially what it does (and is far better at it than the method the game teaches the player).

ಠ_ಠ *Look of Disapproval*

I was unaware that you can cancel your attack with E. I was taught that "Feinting" was changing directions at the last second.

Going to have a test for this myself.

If this was indeed the way that the dev's wanted us to play then they have done a damn poor job of explaining it.

[paoweeotter]

Originally posted by Jaymus:

Originally posted by paoweeotter:

From the conversation with renaissance_jew, i decided to take a closer look into cancel stance or "Abort Attack" (E) command and tested it against Bernard. It reduces the chance of getting Master Striked when going on the offensive. See for yourself:

I think this is an oversight and it should have been in the Feinting tutorial since it is essentially what it does (and is far better at it than the method the game teaches the player).

ಠ_ಠ *Look of Disapproval*

I was unaware that you can cancel your attack with E. I was taught that "Feinting" was changing directions at the last second.

That's how i do it as well. Only crossed my mind because of our discussion lol. Quickly tested it and .... welp. it works.. Feinting...

[Edwin]

E can cancel attacks? Good stuff. I was having problems with a bandit lord and I think this will help me.

I'm not sure if the master parry is a problem or not but I did lose to this bandit captain a few times and I thought it was lame.

The RNG gods are fickle. Do not disturb them for they can not be tested.

[paoweeotter]

Originally posted by Edwin:

E can cancel attacks? Good stuff. I was having problems with a bandit lord (and his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ master parry ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ :P ) and I think this will help me.

It is Feinting for all intents and purposes. It cancels your cutrent stance so you can attack with a different strike. It confuses the AI so you dont get auto master striked.


https://youtu.be/y5S-L35b_kQ

[Tez]

I had a look through the game files for clinch and there are 5 files where it's mentioned similar like where you turn off MS but I wouldn't have a clue which line or value would actually turn it off, I have no knowledge of coding only my rational thinking and power of deduction.

[Seventh Sam]

Originally posted by paoweeotter:

Originally posted by Edwin:

E can cancel attacks? Good stuff. I was having problems with a bandit lord (and his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ master parry ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ :P ) and I think this will help me.

It is Feinting for all intents and purposes. It cancels your cutrent stance so you can attack with a different strike. It confuses the AI so you dont get auto master striked.

https://youtu.be/y5S-L35b_kQ

Sir, I believe you have found a hidden mechanic. While I can't test it myself (I don't have the game installed atm) that video is more than enough to convince me. This is really cool and I think you should make a thread yourself sharing this discovery.

I have a feeling the devs included this as an intended part of how feinting works but forgot to include it in the tutorial or even in-game help in the rush to release. Based on your video, it seems this mechanic actually makes feinting work in that it gives a clear way for the player to confuse the AI and thus prevent being screwed over by a master strike.

Thanks for sharing this.

[Seventh Sam]

Originally posted by Robb:

I have no knowledge of coding only my rational thinking and power of deduction.

All you need is a degree in eldritch mathematical trigonomecalcutry and you'll be an expert at coding in no time.

[paoweeotter]

Originally posted by renaissance_jew:

Originally posted by paoweeotter:

It is Feinting for all intents and purposes. It cancels your cutrent stance so you can attack with a different strike. It confuses the AI so you dont get auto master striked.

https://youtu.be/y5S-L35b_kQ

Sir, I believe you have found a hidden mechanic. While I can't test it myself (I don't have the game installed atm) that video is more than enough to convince me. This is really cool and I think you should make a thread yourself sharing this discovery.

I have a feeling the devs included this as an intended part of how feinting works but forgot to include it in the tutorial or even in-game help in the rush to release. Based on your video, it seems this mechanic actually makes feinting work in that it gives a clear way for the player to confuse the AI and thus prevent being screwed over by a master strike.

Thanks for sharing this.

I wouldnt have found it if not for you lol. im goijg out right now xD. Feel free to share it this was our joint effort .

[Seventh Sam]

Originally posted by paoweeotter:

Originally posted by renaissance_jew:

Sir, I believe you have found a hidden mechanic. While I can't test it myself (I don't have the game installed atm) that video is more than enough to convince me. This is really cool and I think you should make a thread yourself sharing this discovery.

I have a feeling the devs included this as an intended part of how feinting works but forgot to include it in the tutorial or even in-game help in the rush to release. Based on your video, it seems this mechanic actually makes feinting work in that it gives a clear way for the player to confuse the AI and thus prevent being screwed over by a master strike.

Thanks for sharing this.

Originally posted by renaissance_jew:

Sir, I believe you have found a hidden mechanic. While I can't test it myself (I don't have the game installed atm) that video is more than enough to convince me. This is really cool and I think you should make a thread yourself sharing this discovery.

I have a feeling the devs included this as an intended part of how feinting works but forgot to include it in the tutorial or even in-game help in the rush to release. Based on your video, it seems this mechanic actually makes feinting work in that it gives a clear way for the player to confuse the AI and thus prevent being screwed over by a master strike.

Thanks for sharing this.

I wouldnt have found it if not for you lol. im goijg out right now xD. Feel dree to share it as i believe this was our joint effort lol.

Will do!

[Jaymus]

Originally posted by paoweeotter:

Originally posted by Edwin:

E can cancel attacks? Good stuff. I was having problems with a bandit lord (and his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ master parry ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ :P ) and I think this will help me.

It is Feinting for all intents and purposes. It cancels your cutrent stance so you can attack with a different strike. It confuses the AI so you dont get auto master striked.


https://youtu.be/y5S-L35b_kQ

Hmmmm, I still encounter Master Strikes more than I hoped for doing it this way. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, maybe it was a coincidence, who knows. If feinting did indeed decrease the chance of master strike, I prefer this to be at 0%. Perhaps others will have a better experience or do better than I did.

Regardless, I salute you for discovering a mechanic for feinting. You should post this as a discussion to share this information and see how their experience was like.

[Jaymus]

Originally posted by Robb:

Nexus has a new mod up that reduces MS chances as well as turning it off completely.

https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/203

I can confirm that this works.

[paoweeotter]

I made a new video that shows other feint attack combinations

- Slash feint to Stab
- Stab feint to Upward Slash
- Stab feint to Downard Slash

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1311542547

[HEU3BECTEH]

I like this post and agree that Master Strike as it is ruins melee combat. This game is hard in so stupid and broken ways, you can cheese win every battle easily, while trying to fight as-it-is-should-be-intended does not work.
I experience many enemies Master Striking way more than half of my attacks, absolutely disregarding feints (is there any meaning in feint at all?). I have to just ram them with my head and after wining a clinch they do not Master Strike one or more attack.

The Master Strike should be only possible while ideal-blocking in the same direction as attack comes, at least for AI, which now is broken by Master Strike abuse. It would add to combat dynamic if there would be an option to evade Master Striking by pressing guard at very limited time period (and AI should not abuse that so stupidly too).
I believe that at least 95% of the current broken AI Master Strikes should be ideal blocks.

The simpliest solution is to drastically decrease AI Master Strike ratio (completely broken now) and make them ideal blocks. Make AI Master Strike mostly the attacks in the expected direction, while ideal blocking others instead. I think it is broken AI, not combet mechanic itself, sounds easy to fix.

Best regards.

P.S. Even when you can clinch and attack and feint-cancel (with E) and attack with low chance of getting Master Strike, I believe it to be the way to bypass broken AI situation rather than the way it actually should work.

[Deathstalker580]

Originally posted by Jaymus:

EDITED POST DISCUSSION: Temporary Solution

Somebody has discovered a mod to adjust/turn off master striking. The choice is in your hands now.

https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/203

Personally I do not think this is the perfect solution to the problem *Go skip down to My Suggestions For A MasterStrike Rework *. Master Striking possibly could have been an awesome mechanic in the game to make it cool, challenging, and fun. However, master strike in its current state of now only serves to hinder the gameplay by making the player feel punished and frustrated for trying to use basic core mechanics of the game without cheesing it. I hope this thread reaches out to the developers so that they may clarify the true intention behind Master Striking.

Well it's been a fun up and down hill battle with this thread and the combat system requires more adjusting. I never expected this thread to go as big as it is now. This thread has left me too burnt out to critique other issues. Carry the torch for me my brothers.

Intro

Note: I have stirred some confusion for not noting this. Whenever I say riposte/parry, I refer to master striking, not when the enemy strikes back after "Normally" blocking.

Second Note: If you're not going to take your time to read this entire thread and post something that has already been talked about, then at least read the conclusion to hear my final thoughts on this mechanic.


I want to enjoy this game, I really do. It has exceeded most of my expectations to make it past as a decent RPG game, but I cannot help but be very disappointed and frustrated with the current melee system as it is now. I was first pretty disappointed to find out that blocking is done by just pressing Q instead of directional blocking like in Mount&Blade as it makes blocking feel bland and less satisfying. I chose to accept and tolerate this, but what I could not accept is how master striking works as it renders melee engagements unfair, unviable (Without cheesing), and not fun.

What Is Master Striking?

Master Striking is a mechanic that allows the user to deflect an opponent’s blow and attack at the same time. This is activated by perfect guarding (Pressing Q as soon as the opponent strikes) and there is a chance your character will automatically perform a parry which will deflect the blow and damage the opponent with an automatic unstoppable follow up attack.

DO NOT CONFUSE THIS WITH ATTACKING BACK AFTER A PERFECT BLOCK

Skip to the third minute of this video

https://youtu.be/eNdPuIbWskM?t=3m

What Is The Problem With It?

There is absolutely no counterplay to this mechanic at all rendering melee irritating and unviable. When an opponent Master Strikes your attack, you will become locked in an animation, unable to do anything as you witness your opponent deflecting your attack and then whispering into your ear “Just let it happen” as he proceeds to bopping your head with his pommel, kicking you in the groin, or thrusting his blade into your ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Once your opponent has master striked your attack, you are already dead.

Edit: I may have exagerated the damage of Master Strike, excuse my poor Fist of The North Star Memes. However, I still don't believe this justify free damage.

EVIDENCE: QUOTE FROM BERNARD - Third minute of video above.
"See? I parry and strike in one move. There's no defence against this technique if it's executed well. The thing is to time it right. Block right into your opponent's strike and match your movement to his. One elegant technique and the fight is won."


To make this mechanic worse, master strike is triggered by RNG by the opponent which makes this problem outside of the player’s controls. “Gitting Gud” will get you nowhere. Every time you strike at your opponent, there is a random chance that he will just master strike your attack. Remember of what the game taught you about feinting, attacking the opposite direction of your opponent’s sword stance and chaining strikes? You might as well throw that information out of the window because it doesn’t matter! Parrying God bandits disregard these rules of the game and will trigger Master Strike even if you feint, attack the opposite direction, or chain strikes. The AI is untrickable with an autoguard system with a slight chance guaranteeing to screw you over. This leaves most players such as myself feel cheated.

EDIT: Please do not misunderstand me that i am ok with the player abusing it himself.

EDIT 2: I am not complaining if the player's master strike is RNG, I am complaining that the trigger for the AI's Master strike is RNG. I do not care if the player's master strike is RNG or not However, I still do not believe that the player nor the AI should have access to such ability that gives them protection and free damage.

The only solutions to counter Master Striking as it is now is to not slash the opponent at all as slashing at your opponent is the equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot. The only true viable way to fight in duels is to have a 30 second staring contest to see who is stupid enough to swing his sword first for the second person to Master Strike. This makes most of the mechanics in the melee system absolutely useless. The other solution is to not engage melee at all in a medieval melee based game! Running in circles like a buffoon while quickscoping/shotgunning people with a bow is much more viable than engaging in melee.

What You May Say and What People Have Said *Edited*

“Git Gud”

Unfortunately her divine gracious of Git Gud will not assist in lending us a helping hand my brothers and sisters. As I said earlier, Master Striking is based on RNG and is outside of the player’s control. We have no choice but to succumb to the rule of lord Master Strike as we slowly perish and decay like the insignificant organisms we are.

Reread "What is the problem with Master Strikes"

“Just increase your stats”

1.I have won master archery competitions with level 0 archering three times in a row by using a bow that I did not have the stats for.
2. solo’d a group of bandits by running around like an idiot by quickscoping/shotgunning them with a bow around level 5.
3. Stolen loot worth more than few thousands of gold without getting caught with stealth and lockpicking below 6.

And I can’t have a decent 1v1 melee experience for a melee system that can barely support group fights unless my stats are above 10? (which they are). Inexcusable.

Edited: Some people has been informing me that the occurance of Master Strike will decrease as your stats level up. I do not believe such artifical mechanic is the right solution to make the player feel progress. Furthermore, people who have 15+ strength/longsword are still encountering the problem of being Master Striked.

Edited Note: By "Decent" I do not mean by my inability to defeat someone in melee. I refer to it as fun, fluid, and climatic. Master Strikes destroys the flow and enjoyment of exchanging blocks and parrys as it is unstoppable and automatic. It is not fun to rely on cheese strats or to one shot your opponent before he has the chance to Master Strike.

Yes, I appreciate the satisfaction of being able to fight properly after hard work of training. But I do not believe such artificial mechanic in which the player has no control over is the correct solution to the feel of progression.

"Just master strike them back or "Insert cheese strat"

Skip down to Conclusion and read the post that I have marked as my answer.

"It's for realism"
I am not critiquing this game as a medieval martial arts expert who watches every single Skalligram video, I am critiquing this as a gamer who happens to be a medieval dweeb.

Yes, a healthy balance between realism and gameplay can create a wonderful game, but how much gameplay are you willing to compromise for realism if the game will turn into a irritating and unplayable experience?

How Parrying Should Be Done

In Mount&Blade Warband, the player can perform a parry by swinging at the same direction of the opponent’s blade. This will cancel the opponents attack and the player who parried the attack will continue to swing his weapon at the opponent. However, the opponent who was just parried is not left helpless to be killed or gravely injured. He still has time to block the parry and move, but just has a fewer fraction of seconds to react to it. In Kingdom Come’s case, the player is 100% doomed to taking a hit after having his attack parried through a master strike. The main point is to give the person who was parried a fighting chance.

My Suggestions For A Master Strike Rework

I am no gaming developer and I don’t know how complicated it is to rework a part of a melee system in which had years of developing so I may not have the perfect solution, but this game is in dire need of allowing players to counter play against Master Strikes.

I could only think of couple of solutions without adding drastic changes to the melee system

1. Master Strike should only be triggered if the attacker strikes in the same direction in which the defender is holding his sword and successfully blocks the attack. This will allow feinting and choosing directions significantly viable. This will add counterplay to master striking and remove the RNG factor. It will be at least the player’s fault if he gets parried and pummeled for choosing to strike in the wrong direction.

2. Dealing and receiving a master strike does non-lethal damage and gives you a severely low amount of reaction time to react to the enemies follow up attacks after (maybe depending on your defense and agility stats)

3. Completely take it out of the game. This is my least favorable suggestion as it is a waste to see those animations go away. However, I would rather enjoy watching flurrying swords back and forth than to see the flow to be interuppted by an unstoppable mechanic.

I appreciate all the work put into this game. Most RPG’S recently have bored the crap out of me but this game has successfully kept me immersed and holding my attention. I really want this game to succeed as much as it can for all of the hard work put into this! But please do not let one single major flaw in the melee system to ruin everything! Thank you for reading and please let me know your opinion.

Post Discussion thoughts *EDITED*

EDITED 1: I am changing the title to Rant as people have been informing me that it is possible to parry a parry. I will undergo more investigation with this feedback in mind. I will leave this thread up for people who had feel the same way I had to learn if it is indeed possible or impossible to riposte a riposte.

EDITED 2: After reading this discussion for a while, I am still unconvinced that you can counter a master strike. We seem to have an unclear definition of what parrying is. There is a possibility that we are confusing the difference between an enemy blocking your attack and then hitting back and master striking.

A normal block by an enemy is followed by a normal swing in which the green shield may or may not appear. However the player is still given movement to retaliate.

A master strike is a block followed by an unstoppable animation of the attacker getting hit.
A few signs are:
- Being striked swiftly to the head
- Being jabbed 3 times to the stomach with the pommel of the sword
- Being kicked
- Opponent swiftly moves aside and instantly swipes at your opening

If the opponent follows up with a normal swing then you have not being Master Striked, it was a normal block.

I am stating this to make sure we are not confusing the difference between master striking and normal blocking.

EDITED 3: Wow, I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my argument. This is BEYOND evidence that Master Striking is UNSTOPPABLE and is a DETRIMENT to the game. I have added this to category "What Is Master Strike"

Conclusion and My Final Thoughts *Edited*

I never mentioned that the game is "hard", it just has an extremly flawed combat system. In its current state, it is designed to PUNISH the player for using the games BASIC CORE mechanics which is one of the worst design choices I've ever seen.

A lot of people don't seem to get that I have no issue with WINNING a battle. In fact it's really easy to abuse and I have only died once to master strike due to my unawarence of its presence in the game. The worst it does to me now is making me pay some armour bills and kill my fun.

Yes there are many methods to avoid and prevent master striking but all of these practical methods DISREGARD the BASIC CORE MECHANICS THAT THE GAME HAS TAUGHT YOU. If you think using tactics that disregard the core mechanics of this game is fine then you have not found the solution, you are RUNNING AWAY from the actual problem.

I don't want to use cheap tactics to win nor do I want to be punished due to a flaw to the game itself. I want well fought duels by utilizing what the game has teached me and wants me to use. I don't mind losing due to my own mistake, I want to enjoy playing and adepting to get better at the game. Preventing Master Strikes has no room for effort for improvement of the player as you can't improve what dice the game throws against you without modding it.

Master strike does not test the players melee skill, it tests the players ability on how to cheat it.

If this design is in fact what the developers imagined then why bother making a complex melee system if it's core mechanics are pointless and punishable? They might as well turn this into a turn based game.

Despite the heavy flaw of the combat system, I will continue to play and enjoy the other aspects of it.

This is all I have to say, but I will still be happy to reply to any disagreements you have.

https://youtu.be/Zi_6GO1CEOE
Ive installed the mod and makes the combat much more interesting

[carl]

Originally posted by paoweeotter:

Originally posted by Edwin:

E can cancel attacks? Good stuff. I was having problems with a bandit lord (and his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ master parry ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ :P ) and I think this will help me.

It is Feinting for all intents and purposes. It cancels your cutrent stance so you can attack with a different strike. It confuses the AI so you dont get auto master striked.


https://youtu.be/y5S-L35b_kQ

This is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sweet!