What the fight with Runt taught me.

[The Ghost Pyro From Outerspace!!]

The combat system in this game is broken. Not as in it doesn't work, but as in it surely doesn't work as intended. I fought Runt half a dozen times with a sword and never did any better than getting in 3 solid hits. I fought him with a bow once and it only took 3 arrows to kill him.

Melee combat is tedious. I understand the desire for a deep combat system, but giving all NPCs the combat acumen of what would be a master swordsman has made it tiresome to fight anyone. The primary reason for this is that the system you as a player follow, and that NPCs follow seem to be completely different. Enemies can (and will) perfect parry virtually every swing, and almost all (including no name bandits) can perform 4-5 hit combos without any difficulty. It's worth noting that most combos can only be parried at the end and certain points for you, for NPCs they can parry combos whenever they please. Enemies seem to have either no stamina, or pools so vast as to be virtually limitless. I've been hit with a 5 hit combo, parried, then hit with another combo by a no name bandit. Mooks like that shouldn't be that compotent, they should be fodder for you to cut through.

That brings me to my next point, swords have no teeth. Even if enemies didn't parry 9 of every 10 strikes, the damage a melee weapon does is pitiful. Against a combatant in heavy armor, this makes sense, but even against enemies wearing little more than a gamberson it might take as many as a dozen well placed hits to knock them out, and they seem to not suffer form a reduced stamina pool as their hit points are reduced.

Now maybe, I thought, this was because I focused on charisma for my highest stat. But the kicker was in the fight with Runt. 3 measly arrows took him out. What 4 dozen sword swings couldn't do, 3 arrows could in a fraction of a time, and my archery skill is actually lower than my swordsmanship skill is. So my conclusion is that melee combat is broken. It's an extremely tedious, and slow slog fest that can last for literal hours in game (I once fist fought a man from nearly morning til afternoon). In a game that aims for realism fights should be short and brutal, not slow and pillowfisted.

Oh and I don't need you down here virtue signalling and humble bragging about how good you are at the game. If you're about to say "git gud," or some such unhelpful nonsense you can keep it to yourself. This isn't about indiviudal skill at the game, its about how the two combat systems in the game are completely at odds with one another, and that there seems to be little reason to melee fight when you can just shoot anyone who isn't carrying a shield.

[Muntis]

Most think its fine, you just gotta get better

[Kuroodo]

If you unlock/untarget your enemy, look away, left mouse to swing sword, and then turn towards the enemy, you will perform an unblockable attack.

It's easy to exploit. The melee combat system revolves around targeting your opponent. Then it's most likely a mix of RNG between your stats and your opponents stats, as well as some player skill.

Of course with due time the combat system may be smoothened out and tweaked as the developers recieve feedback. But I fear any full on changes to the combat system may come with their next installement if they wish to continue making games like these.

[zault]

What are your stats and skills? I honestly overhead swing Runt in the head two times and he die with Horads Longsword. But my skills may be a bit high. I didn't fight him unitl about 25-30hours in. I think I was main level 11 and sword skill 13. I was very disappointed, as the fight was over in two swings.

[CloversDrop]

I got Runt with 1 hit with a mace.

Swords aren't good at slashing plate armour, crush them with a mace instead.

You need to level up defence, warfare, weapon type, agility and strength... They all have an effect on your fighting ability.

Try clinching guys and knocking them back, then doing a head shot slash (left click) with a mace.

Wear some form of plate armour to reduce damage from swords

[zault]

Originally posted by Unpleasant:

I got Runt with 1 hit with a mace.

Swords aren't good at slashing plate armour, crush them with a mace instead.

You need to level up defence, warfare, weapon type, agility and strength... They all have an effect on your fighting ability.

Try clinching guys and knocking them back, then doing a head shot slash (left click) with a mace.

Wear some form of plate armour to reduce damage from swords

He has no armour on his head, just overhead swing.

[CloversDrop]

Originally posted by zault:

Originally posted by Unpleasant:

I got Runt with 1 hit with a mace.

Swords aren't good at slashing plate armour, crush them with a mace instead.

You need to level up defence, warfare, weapon type, agility and strength... They all have an effect on your fighting ability.

Try clinching guys and knocking them back, then doing a head shot slash (left click) with a mace.

Wear some form of plate armour to reduce damage from swords

He has no armour on his head, just overhead swing.

That's true, but I'd do it following a successful clinch to guarantee a hit while he's stunned.

[Trep]

Shot him in the face and he bled out 3 seconds later, be smarter than the enemies.

[Kozzy]

The sword combat is amazing in this game. Git Gud

[Yuuki]

"This isn't about indiviudal skill at the game"
It actually is. I've never got a bandit to go into a combo on me, the only ones that did this were some soldiers. You need to learn how to parry, where to place your strikes and use the push to lower their guards and attack way more easily.
About the sword vs bow : I don't know how the bow & arrow damages system works, but it's actually pretty normal to hit for lower damages with a sword than a bow : My good swords in game actually hit for ~75 with a sword skill to approximatly 9-10, meanwhile some bows hits for ~70 with a bow skill to approximatly 5-6-7, and I'll guess you need to add the damages of the arrows (~100) to that, which mean it goes to a solid 170 damages.
You don't need to explain you the difference between 170 vs 75, the thing is bows are (imo) way more difficult to use in a combat w/o horses (NPC while catch up to you except if you use almost all of your stamina and that means you'll need to wait to a little bit to have enough stamina to shoot your arrow, not the funniest fights you can do) and you can't hit at the same rate with a bow than with a sword.
You should try to train yourself by saving next to bandits and fighting them again & again, try to really see their sword position & where to then attack, use the push when you're really close to him to destabilize & hit (most hits on the head after a push will connects with a lot of damages, mostly half of their HP bar is gone), increase your strength (Not sure about that, but I think that it actually increase your damages).
Really, when you know the "behind the scenes" of the combat system and it works, it's not that big of a deal and that's actually funny.
Good luck on the training if you'll try it, otherwise, well, i don't know, good luck with the bow.

[TheIdiot]

Someone want to tell me what this almighty Clinch is, and how to execute it? I felt rushed to get to this point of the game (thought the bandits would strike again if I didn't stop them fast) and I'm fighting Runt with no further combat training than the initial stuff with Captain Bernard. Or is it never explained?

[Fokkas]

Originally posted by TheIdiot:

Someone want to tell me what this almighty Clinch is, and how to execute it? I felt rushed to get to this point of the game (thought the bandits would strike again if I didn't stop them fast) and I'm fighting Runt with no further combat training than the initial stuff with Captain Bernard. Or is it never explained?

Clinching is mainly random and completely revolves around your stats and perks. The bad thing is that clinching practically doesn't damage an enemy at all, and enemies can clinch you an unlimited amount of times forever without losing stamina, and if your perks or stats don't contribute against them - they will win the clinch 100% of the time.

[Fokkas]

One thing I agree on is why are all no name bandits and cumans master swordsmen? They all have the perks and combos and defence perks and clinching perks and they know every single skill and attack. Even nearly naked bandits have master swordsman moves and ripostes with infinite perfect blocks.

[Dominian]

The fight taught me that I progressed too far before doing the story quests. I literally never got touched by the guy, since it only took one blow to win the fight.

Fighting all the guys in the camp while scouting was fun though. Once they reach the critical mass of 6-8 enemies, you gotta run. It's like a zombie game once you have best gear and weapons in addition to some strength and moves. Just keep walking backwards and keep the enemies between you and their archers.

[Froz7y]

Nobody said that the fighting system is broken. WE just said the fighting system is retarded. You cant grab your opponent and there is no proper training beginning of the game, and if you die, you have to start from beginning and walk all the way to the place to fight again.

[Blackfang]

36hrs in I got to take on Runt. Someone above did exactly what I did, aimed for the head with my sword and he went down in 2 swings and a thrust. It's not just about swinging wildly at your opponent, aim at the weak points in their armour.