How the f*ck am i still failing this speech check?!

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

https://prnt.sc/ig8iqz

Ok, so i pushed myself with Bard's Potion, Alcohol and a perk and 16 vs 14 is still not f*cking enough?! What the actual sh*t. Is this one of those "supposed to get f*cked up the *ss by the AI because its more dramatic" again?

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by Endurance:

Originally posted by Murf_This!:

https://prnt.sc/ig8iqz

Ok, so i pushed myself with Bard's Potion, Alcohol and a perk and 16 vs 14 is still not f*cking enough?! What the actual sh*t. Is this one of those "supposed to get f*cked up the *ss by the AI because its more dramatic" again?

Could be your character is too ugly or dirty. get some Charisma?

Charisma at 16, cleaned cloth, Flower Power.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Yeah, well, Bard's Potion, Amor Potion, Drunk, Flower Power, Fragrance, cleaned and repaired clothes, 20 in Charisma, 16 in Speech - the rapey, greedy, pathetic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is apparently still more eloquent. And i can't level it out, because otherwise people start dying off.

♥♥♥♥ this game.

[zeanomourph]

Just saying... I beat this speech check first try on my first run through the game. It is possible, you're just doing it wrong somehow. I don't remember how I did it, what my stats were or what I was wearing at the time, but I know I had less than 20 speech (never got there even by the time I finished the game) and didn't use a bard pot cos I didn't know there was a check coming up.. but I'm on my second playthrough now in hardcore mode and can't get past it.
I'm pretty sure clothes make a difference. A lot of people were saying the same thing about the blacksmith's secret speech check telling him you are a blacksmith's son that it's impossible to pass... I went up to him wearing patched hose, linen shirt, blacksmith apron, leather gloves and boots and passed it with 11 speech (6 + bard pot) where other people have been failing it with 15+
I just wish I remember what I was wearing when I passed the custodian in my first run, I had no idea I was meant to pay attention to that kinda stuff and just lucked out.

Anyway my point is get your heads out of your butts. The game is not railroaded and if there is a skill check, there is a way to pass it- it's just not only about having a higher stat than the person you're talking to. Personally I think that's fantastic as it makes everything less predictable instead of just leaving a conversation because you have Empathy perk and know you can't beat it so you just metagame and come back to it later when you *think* you are guaranteed to beat it, only to fail it anyway like HA

[zeanomourph]

Hah just beat it. I drank a lethean water, hit up all the speech perks I could including the drinking ones, drank some spirits and a bard pot, then started the cutscene and ruined the custodian with my 12+8 speech check. Just because you couldn't beat it doesn't mean it's impossible or bugged or the devs made a bad game. It just means you gotta git gud.

[Korppi]

I think its realistic, even in real life there are people who are so stubborn that no explanation or speech skill helps you get thro to them. :P

[Gerdruids]

was this your first encounter dealing with him? or did you go see him before to get more aid for them and also stroke his ego about his relationship with the girl. ? that is step one of this particular check point. Or did you miss that in your rush to play thru?
If I remember correctly your given the task to improve the conditions. then treat the injuries directly. doing it in that manner always gave me a pass on the check.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by Korppi:

I think its realistic, even in real life there are people who are so stubborn that no explanation or speech skill helps you get thro to them. :P

That's why we are a game with stats that you can level. "It's realistic like that" - it's realistic to get stabbed once, spend 2 weeks in bed and die from agonizing gangrene.

Originally posted by zeanomourph:

Hah just beat it. I drank a lethean water, hit up all the speech perks I could including the drinking ones, drank some spirits and a bard pot, then started the cutscene and ruined the custodian with my 12+8 speech check. Just because you couldn't beat it doesn't mean it's impossible or bugged or the devs made a bad game. It just means you gotta git gud.

So, basically you went in with prior knowledge and a ton of preparation in order to make a check that is supposed to be tied to a timed quest and come as a surprise. Yeah, that's completely and utterly a case of "gitting gud".

He has a 14, meaning a 16 should beat it. Any explanation of "yeah, but circumstances" or "yeah, but the situation" are basically equal to "Screw the mechanics, we decided that you will fail unless you replay all of it"

Originally posted by Gerdruids:

was this your first encounter dealing with him? or did you go see him before to get more aid for them and also stroke his ego about his relationship with the girl. ? that is step one of this particular check point. Or did you miss that in your rush to play thru?
If I remember correctly your given the task to improve the conditions. then treat the injuries directly. doing it in that manner always gave me a pass on the check.

Did everything that was requested and before anybody died. Also had the conversation beforehand in his office.

Also this is a necro from a year ago.

[SlowFatKid]

This thread is a year old, dont think the OP will see this

[bwc153]

Originally posted by SlowFatKid:

This thread is a year old, dont think the OP will see this

OP was the person who posted directly above you...

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by bwc153:

Originally posted by SlowFatKid:

This thread is a year old, dont think the OP will see this

OP was the person who posted directly above you...

Shhhhh...

[zeanomourph]

Originally posted by Murf_This!:

So, basically you went in with prior knowledge and a ton of preparation in order to make a check that is supposed to be tied to a timed quest and come as a surprise. Yeah, that's completely and utterly a case of "gitting gud".

A ton of preparation lmao, I drank one potion what is widely available in the game, hell Brother Nicodemus in literally the next room from where this quest is happening sells the recipe for it, that's what gave me the idea.

Also as I said, in my first playthrough I passed it with no prior knowledge or preparation anyway, so yeah it is entirely doable you just have to be lucky to have a high enough speech stat by the time you are doing this quest.

Originally posted by Murf_This!:

He has a 14, meaning a 16 should beat it. Any explanation of "yeah, but circumstances" or "yeah, but the situation" are basically equal to "Screw the mechanics, we decided that you will fail unless you replay all of it"

It's a nice assumption, but that's an oversight on your part, not the games. It explains clearly in the tutorial that just having a slightly higher level than them in a certain stat isn't a guaranteed pass.

Just because you are a little bit better at talking then the person you are talking to, doesn't mean they will automatically believe anything and everydamnthing that you ever say. You have to be a LOT more convincing, rather than just a little more convincing, as shown by the fact that the check is absolutely passable with a 20 in Speech (from what I've heard possibly even as low as 17 and you only just missed it by 1 point).

Originally posted by Murf_This!:

That's why we are a game with stats that you can level.

Precisely.



Anyway, my main point was that the skill checks in the game are absolutely NOT railroaded. You just need to have a high enough skill level to pass them, but "high enough" doesn't just mean "higher then the person you are talking to".... it means "high enough"


There are some things in the game that are railroaded, but skill checks are not one of them. For example I just did the Playing with the Devil quest (the one where you follow 3 women into a forest where they do a satanic ritual) and instead of showing myself and letting them rub the ointment all over me, this time I hung back and just watched... the "woodcutters" that showed up were still the satanist looking guys with goat horns despite the fact that this time I was not tripping so they SHOULD have just looked like normal people to me. Still I didn't interfere, I knew from my previous playthrough that these were actually not satanic goat-men even though the game was railroaded to show them as such even though I was not touched by the ointment, so I was just going to watch them slaughter the witches and then head back to the priest to tell him. I waited there for 18 game hours and it turns out the goat-men don't even actually attack the women. You are expected to run in and kill them and the game will not have it any other way. I ended up pulling out my bow and actually killing the witches myself since the goat-men wouldn't to it, then went back to the priest and Henry tells him the woodcutters killed the women (even though theoretically I didn't even know they were woodcutters since my Henry saw them as goat-men even though he shouldn't have) and there's nothing he could do. THIS is the kind of railroaded scripting that deserves a complaint, not the fact that you didn't pass a skill check because your skill wasn't high enough even though you thought it was.

[theo]

Originally posted by Murf_This!:

He has a 14, meaning a 16 should beat it. Any explanation of "yeah, but circumstances" or "yeah, but the situation" are basically equal to "Screw the mechanics, we decided that you will fail unless you replay all of it"

This is an intended part of the mechanics, and it's explained in the tutorial in the beginning of the game.
Example: 'circumstances' factor works similarly in classic D&D-like roleplaying systems. You ain't supposed to know NPC's speech levels in the first place, but if you do, there are more hidden variables such as proficiency, knowledge, environment bonuses, etc.
In short, don't pick dialogue choices that don't make sense in the current situation, unless you're REALLY good at persuading. I've seen only 1 case of 100% guaranteed fail (when trying to intimidate bandits at Merhojed mill), usually you just need bigger numbers.
Always picking the highest number and being successful automatically - that would be railroaded indeed, to the point where there's no gameplay

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by zeanomourph:

Originally posted by Murf_This!:

So, basically you went in with prior knowledge and a ton of preparation in order to make a check that is supposed to be tied to a timed quest and come as a surprise. Yeah, that's completely and utterly a case of "gitting gud".

A ton of preparation lmao, I drank one potion what is widely available in the game, hell Brother Nicodemus in literally the next room from where this quest is happening sells the recipe for it, that's what gave me the idea.

Also as I said, in my first playthrough I passed it with no prior knowledge or preparation anyway, so yeah it is entirely doable you just have to be lucky to have a high enough speech stat by the time you are doing this quest.

You literally just admitted that you have to either get lucky to have it at a really high level then and there (since the quest is timed) OR have to know beforehand. That means it has has nothing to do with skill or being smart about things. I focussed my character entirely on speech, but got there earlier, so the check failed.

Also - please tell me which part of him being immortal for half the quest is not-railroaded?

Originally posted by Sasau Cat:

Originally posted by Murf_This!:

He has a 14, meaning a 16 should beat it. Any explanation of "yeah, but circumstances" or "yeah, but the situation" are basically equal to "Screw the mechanics, we decided that you will fail unless you replay all of it"

This is an intended part of the mechanics, and it's explained in the tutorial in the beginning of the game.
Example: 'circumstances' factor works similarly in classic D&D-like roleplaying systems. You ain't supposed to know NPC's speech levels in the first place, but if you do, there are more hidden variables such as proficiency, knowledge, environment bonuses, etc.
In short, don't pick dialogue choices that don't make sense in the current situation, unless you're REALLY good at persuading. I've seen only 1 case of 100% guaranteed fail (when trying to intimidate bandits at Merhojed mill), usually you just need bigger numbers.
Always picking the highest number and being successful automatically - that would be railroaded indeed, to the point where there's no gameplay

That's why you get a roll in D&D. Obviously it's not perfect, because a mouse can beat an ancient dragon in armwrestling with that system, but it's still better than a hidden, flat check.

[szczuR]

I had no problem winning the speech check after drinking a bard potion. I had around 18 speech overall though i believe.

[Damokles]

I beat it with 10+6 Speech, but only after i talked to him about the supplies and gained some reputation by suggesting Johanka speaks about him and then again by getting the supplies. Before the extra reputation I always failed the check.