This or Skyrim?

[tomchynsky]

Hello :)

I looking for sandbox on thousands hours. Should i buy KC:D? What can i do after finish story?

[76561198046838937]

Get Skyrim. I don't even like skyrim that much (prefer Oblivion) but even then Skyrim has potentially more hours, more mod-ability. KCD is pretty straight forward, the main storyline is relatively linear. Open world looks beautiful but is quite empty and few places to explore (unlike Skyrim).

So yeah, go for Skyrim.

[copperlee1]

Get both! :)

This (meaning KCD) will not give you 1,000 hous, not yet. The developer promised to release some modding tools in 2019. Without modding, your time in KCD will be limited.

[Sayla Massochist]

Depends what you want in your open world RPG.

If you just want thousands of hour of content go ahead and get Skyrim and go to Nexus Mods.

[76561198046838937]

Just, to add - even without mods. Skyrim is 1000% times better (and I disliked that game as a TES games that's saying something). KCD is quite shallow when it comes to exploration. It's mostly just looks and random things lying on the road that have no meaning. Quest design is great for the first half of the game, however Act II everything goes down hill. Lots of quests that seem rushed from a design perspective (or at least not well thought out).

[Jakeo10]

Originally posted by Jon Snow:

Just, to add - even without mods. Skyrim is 1000% times better (and I disliked that game as a TES games that's saying something). KCD is quite shallow when it comes to exploration. It's mostly just looks and random things lying on the road that have no meaning. Quest design is great for the first half of the game, however Act II everything goes down hill. Lots of quests that seem rushed from a design perspective (or at least not well thought out).

This is a realistic, historical game, so it's not like there will be a random quest or exciting place to explore every 5m like Skyrim (fantasy action game). The second half of the game is cut short though :(

[76561198046838937]

Originally posted by Fainstrider:

This is a realistic, historical game, so it's not like there will be a random quest or exciting place to explore every 5m like Skyrim (fantasy action game). The second half of the game is cut short though :(

Just because a game is realistic, doesn't mean they can't be imaginative with their quests.

There's a clear difference in quality from Act I and Act II. While in Act I there were amazing quests that seamlessly told its story through well thought out quest designs, Act II was a different picture. It actually felt like someone totally different lead Act II.

As an example of a well designed quest:

Act I had a quest where you are ordered to go on a hunting trip with Lord Capon (a character who seems like a douche at first glance). As you learn to hunt wild rabbit underneath the mellow light of the afternoon you mingle with Capon in an almost brotherly way. It was great how the game made you hate Capon when you first meet, but after a couple of hours of quality time with him he's kinda funny. Very difficult to do that in a game.
After hunting a few wild rabbits, Capon decides to up the ante and comes up with the idea to hunt boar. He goes off ahead and when you finally catch up with him you see him with a bow aiming towards a creek where a boar drinks silently. The arrow hits the boar, but the boar runs and a chase ensues. Eventually you see Capon running through a few bushes and you decide to follow him through, only to find yourself in a clearing where Capon is down on the floor captured by bandits. ---- All of this is gameplay and I loved how they made a quest like this with such a roller-coaster of events. Quality quest design! If the rest of the game was filled with quests of similar quality, KCD would have been a great game. But it seems like they lost their creativity halfway through.

Now let's compare this to the sub-standard quality quests in Act II

Act II has quests which require you to do a lot of menial things like picking x50 weed from the priests garden. This is the definition of lazy quest design. Let's just prop up a simple fetch quest to fill the gap in this part of the game huh. What's even worse is you have to pick specific types of weed and if you pick the wrong weed the quest fails. Good thing all the weeds are mingled together. Fun quest!....

Another quest is breaking into the Cathedral to gain information/an item from someone. Now you could break into the Cathedral like a mad man and kill everyone and take the item from the target. However, what if you want to play like a pacifist? The pacifist route requires you to spend the time going through menial jobs like praying and eating. During these times there are no mini-games involved within these actions, you can't use these situations to garner information from the other priests around you, you can't even walk out of line from the area otherwise the priests 'catch' you and proceed to moan at you through a semi-cutscene. If they catch you 3 times you get kicked out of the Cathedral. So you have to sit there through these activity parts of the quest and sit there for 3-4 hours of game time watching yourself pray, watching yourself eat, doing nothing else but leaving your screen as it is. Now you could press T and auto-pass time... yes, lets pass all the 'content' the dev's put in there. Why put it in there in the first place if you know we're just going to skip through it?

Another poorly design quest is when you have to break into the castle under the cover of dark to rescue hostages. You are told to infiltrate the castle without raising any alarms, taking out any gaurds as you need to but to do it quietly. You can go through the effort of stealthily killing the gaurds and finding the hostages and spend an hour doing so. Turns out the quest is scripted to fail anyway because capon sets of the alarm regardless.

Let's look at the outcomes of this quest:

A) You can start the quest, as soon as you get over the wall run around making as much noise as possible to set off the alarm. Capon will complain and you run back down the ladder off over the wall.

B) Spend 1 hour killing all the guards in your way. Find the hostages but not find the hostages you're looking for. Capon sets of alarm and get's shot in the backside, so you have to spend ages dragging his rear-end back over the wall and down the ladder.

A & B both end the same. They may have different dialogue when you go back to report on your quest, but the outcome and main storyline proceeds the same way. Only diffference is option A takes 50 seconds to do (and is a dumb way to finish the quest) and option B takes an hour and a lot of effort stealthing


It's certain quest designs like these that are quite poorly thought out and are much more frequent and noticeable in Act II. I could have given more examples. There's also discrepencies with the storyline like how romance Thereasa and do all these quests to romance here. You do this 30% through the game and once you romance her, she never speaks to you for the rest of the game. Why put her in the game? Her character seems like a tacked on last minute thing. Also the world is emtpy - beautiful - but empty and feels lifeless apart fromt he wilderness.

[theo]

Minecraft

KCD is quite shallow when it comes to exploration.

Still prefer this to skyrim's boring dungeons that all look and feel the same and have exit at the end - so even devs admit their game is boring by providing players with shortcuts and fast-travel jumps just so people won't walk through this boredom twice

Almost every marked place in KC:D has some thought behind it - be it cannibals' hideout, place where some witchery happened, grave of two lovers, or nest of some strange creature

Originally posted by Jon Snow:

A & B both end the same

I guess you're just 'I want to feel rewarded' sort of guy. In roleplaying games the main thing that matters is how you play and develop your character, not how it ends. For different endings better look for branching narrative games like life is strange, walking dead, mass effect or witcher, or many others, they're weirdly popular nowadays.

like picking x50 weed

Is this actually a part of 'act 2'? I thought this is just a side activity that doesn't belong to any 'acts'

[crazycupmuffin]

Get rocket league. it's all I can play. It's ruined all my gaming. :(

[76561198046838937]

Originally posted by Sasau Cat:

Originally posted by Jon Snow:

A & B both end the same

I guess you're just 'I want to feel rewarded' sort of guy. In roleplaying games the main thing that matters is how you play and develop your character, not how it ends. For different endings better look for branching narrative games like life is strange, walking dead, mass effect or witcher, or many others, they're weirdly popular nowadays.

Did you not read my spoiler text? It's not about the fact there are different endings. I wouldn't even care if there was one ending. The fact is before they give the quest they make a big deal how you must be silent and save the hostages. LOL you can raise the alarm 5 seconds into the quest and it will end the same as if you done the quest properly and looked for the hostages and stealthily killed the guards. Whats the point? Clearly an oversight in level design.

[Craig [K.A.O.S.]]

KDC is hundreds, not thousands, sadly.

[jfoytek]

This is a hard question for me to answer... Mainly because your wanting 1000's of hours out of an RPG....

Kingdom Come Deliverance is the better RPG its my Game of the Year no doubt...

But then Skyrim was also my Game of the Year back when it released...

The differences here is that Skyrim and the Elder Scroll Franchise has steadily deleted content for graphics, streamlined game play for simplicity and have in general made each game there after dumber.....

Kingdom Come Deliverance is a huge step in a positive direction for the RPG Genre I love it...

However from the perspective of replayability skyrim has more because of the extensive mod support and DLC content that has come down the pike.... Can a person get over 1000 Hours in Skyrim yes....

Could you milk KCD for 600-800 hours yes but going over a 1000 at this point seems unlikely at this stage but there are DLC's coming so it could be possible....

[theo]

Dude wasn't asking what's better as a RPG, he asked for a sandbox game
And KC:D definitely ain't one and I doubt it ever will be

[Dayve]

Well, I'm a huge fan of The Elder Scrolls series. Played Morrowind for probably a thousand hours, played Oblivion for probably 1,500 hours (my non-STEAM copy from 2005 or whenever it released), and I will say... Skyrim disappointed me. I may have played it for hundreds of hours, but most of those hours were spent restarting and trying new characters. Everything is dumbed down compared to Morrowind and even Oblivion. It's just an easy game, from beginning to end. Unless you mod the holy hell out of it, nothing will ever challenge you. From the moment you pick up your first rusty sword/axe you're a god and can kill anything.

Everybody calls you a hero for killing dragons, but 5 town guards can easily kill a dragon on their own. A giant can kill a dragon no problem. A bandit leader can kill a dragon. Everybody in the world of Skyrim is a dragonborne hero.

Magic is dumb, you can't even make your own spells. Crafting is dumb, you just make iron daggers and get to max crafting. Cities are tiny compared to Morrowind and Oblivion, towns are basically 3 or 4 huts and most of them don't even have a quest. Caves and dungeons all look pretty much the same. No mysticism, no shortswords, armour pieces removed.

But because videogame audiences today prefer dumbed down games that give instant gratification, Skyrim gets 10/10 from basically everybody, whereas a game with some depth like KC:D gets mixed/hostile reviews because people can't handle a sword fighting system if it's anymore complicated than "press left mouse to spam quick attack, win every battle ever".

If you don't want the easy dumbness of Skyrim, but you don't want the complexity of Kingdom Come, maybe Witcher 3 would be an option in-between the two. It's not so easy that it's dumb like Skyrim, it's not difficult like Kingdom Come, it's right in the middle. Only problem is... it's not really a roleplaying game. Well, actually, it's not a roleplaying game at all. It's an adventure game with swords and magic.

[jfoytek]

Originally posted by Sasau Cat:

Dude wasn't asking what's better as a RPG, he asked for a sandbox game
And KC:D definitely ain't one and I doubt it ever will be

It is most definately a sandbox game..... But you sadly have to make it thru and hour or two of being on rails to get to the sandbox.....

[jfoytek]

Originally posted by Dayve:

Well, I'm a huge fan of The Elder Scrolls series. Played Morrowind for probably a thousand hours, played Oblivion for probably 1,500 hours (my non-STEAM copy from 2005 or whenever it released), and I will say... Skyrim disappointed me. I may have played it for hundreds of hours, but most of those hours were spent restarting and trying new characters. Everything is dumbed down compared to Morrowind and even Oblivion. It's just an easy game, from beginning to end. Unless you mod the holy hell out of it, nothing will ever challenge you. From the moment you pick up your first rusty sword/axe you're a god and can kill anything.

Everybody calls you a hero for killing dragons, but 5 town guards can easily kill a dragon on their own. A giant can kill a dragon no problem. A bandit leader can kill a dragon. Everybody in the world of Skyrim is a dragonborne hero.

Magic is dumb, you can't even make your own spells. Crafting is dumb, you just make iron daggers and get to max crafting. Cities are tiny compared to Morrowind and Oblivion, towns are basically 3 or 4 huts and most of them don't even have a quest. Caves and dungeons all look pretty much the same. No mysticism, no shortswords, armour pieces removed.

But because videogame audiences today prefer dumbed down games that give instant gratification, Skyrim gets 10/10 from basically everybody, whereas a game with some depth like KC:D gets mixed/hostile reviews because people can't handle a sword fighting system if it's anymore complicated than "press left mouse to spam quick attack, win every battle ever".

If you don't want the easy dumbness of Skyrim, but you don't want the complexity of Kingdom Come, maybe Witcher 3 would be an option in-between the two. It's not so easy that it's dumb like Skyrim, it's not difficult like Kingdom Come, it's right in the middle. Only problem is... it's not really a roleplaying game. Well, actually, it's not a roleplaying game at all. It's an adventure game with swords and magic.

+100 Couldnt agree more!