Kingdom Come: Deliverance

Kingdom Come: Deliverance

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bibbis 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 1:05
Worst combat I have experienced in a very long time.
How are people putting up with this god awful combat?
How is this acceptable to anyone?

If you don't know how to make a combat system that works ok, then please do not have combat in your game.
It doesn't matter if you can't imagine your game without a combat system, It's no worth having such an awful part of your game that will completely block people off from enjoying the good parts.

It was the exact same thing for me with Witcher 2.
I ended up installing a mod that changed the combat system so much that it was like playing a completely different game.
That was the only way for me to actually be able to play and enjoy Witcher 2.
And here we go again....
Another praised game that is loved by EVERYONE that again has such a bad combat system that I can't stand playing it.
And this time (even after 2 years) even the combat mods are not enough to save the game from itself.

I can see how much work has gone into this game!
The graphics and 3D assets are of ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE QUALITY!
And I'm not even using the HD texture pack.
The voice work is just as good.
The early cutscene with the father and the forge made my jaw drop from how absolutely INCREDIBLE the 3D assets look.
Absolutely amazing quality!

And all that work is ruined by a combat system that is so bad that it's close to being uplayable...


How can people be so incredibly forgiving and patient with some games?
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目前顯示第 1-15 則留言,共 57
ShadowAngel (已封鎖) 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 1:17 
引用自 bibbis
How are people putting up with this god awful combat?

Well, some people have skill, some people are willing to learn and adapt while some other people instead prefer to ♥♥♥♥♥ about it. Seemingly, you fall in the latter category.

Actually, the combat is probably even the best sword fighting mechanic i've seen in a game. I guess what you fail to understand, is that Henry has no clue about sword fighting (as its established in the intro that he just started taking lessons), which is the reason why it's difficulty in the beginning. He needs to train, raise the skill, learn combos and then he has an easier time. Archery, lockpicking and pretty much everything else works on the same principle: You're just untrained and unskilled in the beginning.

My Henry is pretty skilled in swordfighting now and it's flat out fun to take part in the tournaments or just fight with some bandits in the woods. Even two or three enemies at once are not impossible anymore and doing the combos is great. Did i struggle in the beinning? Of course. Did i get my ass kicked by cumans? Sure. That's just part of the game and Kingdom Come is more like the classic real RPGs of old instead of the modern, ultra simplified, dumbed down jokes like those pseudo-rpgs from Crapthesda, were you're basically a invincible demigod who's skilled in everything an hour after starting.

I would recommend you stick to simply games if you don't have the will/skill to learn. Something like Diablo, where you just need to press the mouse button to "fight", perhaps.
Torin 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 1:29 
In one patch the combat mostly functioned OK. I could even do combos like half swording. But now you cannot do any combo that ends in a thrust. Enemies teleport tackle you and you are forcibly locked and cannot even move your camera when it happens. It doesnt even matter if you are locked on to the enemy that is teleport tackling you. Soft and Hard lock don't matter either. There is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hit detection now. Bad physics. Bad collision detection (I am constantly being moved because the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dog is apparently magnetic.) The camera and animation lock systems are absolutely awful. Animations constantly desynch along with hit boxes and there are even moments of lag in combat as if you were in an online game. How the ♥♥♥♥ does that happen in a purely local environment?!

Further more Master Strikes ruin everything because you are forced to never attack unless you want half your health gone. It doesn't even matter if you win a clinch. If you attack after winning a clinch you risk losing health. The clinch system itself is garbage because it is automatic when you and the enemy are face ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ each other. You could even be back pedalling and still get into a clinch because the enemy wants to ♥♥♥♥ your face with his.

These devs do not understand the basic Risk vs Reward system in combat. If attacking is high risk and low reward as it is in this game it is absolutely not fun. Combine that with low risk and high reward with Master Strikes and you have ♥♥♥♥♥♥ basic combat mechanics.

For the love of your Slavic Gods please ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ play a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fighting game like Soul Calibur so you know at least how Risk vs Reward should work in combat. I advise people who want a good combat system in a medieval RPG to just go play Mount and Blade instead. Or Dark Souls.

PS: Before the "Git Gud" crowd opens their ignorant mouthes I have over 800 hours in this. Even at high level combat is still not fun because again they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up BASIC RISK vs REWARD convention. High Risk for Low Reward and Low Risk for High Reward is the exact OPPOSITE of what you want in a combat system.
最後修改者:Torin; 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 1:30
repaeR 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 1:37 
引用自 bibbis
How are people putting up with this god awful combat?



How can people be so incredibly forgiving and patient with some games?

I did put up with it, but I complained same things, everything like you did. The combat is bad, it's true. Even after learning all the necessary skills, high stats 17-20, full armored, I still can get whooped by 3 or more plated bandits. Now this is all hardcore experience, I never play normal mode so don't know. The only bad thing that I still agree to this day is that the "forced" thing the game tries to pull you down, I can lose square and fair in so many games, in fair system, but this, I feel like if I lose, it's cheaply because something else, not my inability to win.

Yea, you can eventually get over it, or not, once you get into depth of the game, it can be satisfying or boredom, tedious, or ugly, depending on how you view it.
repaeR 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 1:44 
引用自 ShadowAngel

and doing the combos is great.


Here what I takes when you said this:
1. You must play on normal mode.
2. Maybe you play on console.
3. ...Or you only do this when fighting against peasants, or couple Cumans.
ShadowAngel (已封鎖) 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 2:15 
引用自 Repaer
Here what I takes when you said this:

Fun assumption, but they're all wrong.
What you should've taken from my text is: "Not everybody sucks as much as i do when it comes to fighting in the game" :GatorTongue:
repaeR 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 2:21 
引用自 ShadowAngel
引用自 Repaer
Here what I takes when you said this:

Fun assumption, but they're all wrong.
What you should've taken from my text is: "Not everybody sucks as much as i do when it comes to fighting in the game" :GatorTongue:

Ok, here is my experience on 200+ hours on hardcore mode, and sure let's say that I'm really "suck" at combat, but from what you said, I must accuse you lying or trolling. Why?! Nobody ever does combos when you are up against 2-3+ armored opponent, even you think that all the badass potions can keep you safe. Now again, this is talking in hardcore mode, if you are on normal like I said, then you probably "badass" with combos. Anyone here truly played, pretty sure knows what I'm talking about.
Lieste 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 3:04 
引用自 Torin Wildfang
But now you cannot do any combo that ends in a thrust.

You might have 800 hours, but you are 100% wrong about this point. I nearly exclusively use devices which terminate in two thrusts.. a broad mix of Fehler, Drei Wunder for the Longsword or Half Swording for the short sword (but I use longswords far more). I have 450 of (mostly) these and can pull of 3 or 4 in a single fight against one opponent (if he has sufficient armour to survive the first one(s)), often chained one after another.
Dragonzord 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 4:53 
I ain't sure how to address the original post, which says a lot and nothing at the same time. All I learned from it is that the combat in this game is bad because it's bad.
Regarding other points mentioned, here is some of my 150+ hour experience, both Normal and Hardcore. I see a lot of people not being able to deal with 1 vs many fights. Some reliable tactics I recommend:

1. Run
2. Stealth kills at night
3. Horseback combat (I can easily wipe out entire towns with this one)
4. You may try to lure them out one by one with a bow and arrows, though it's not easy
5. If you insist on taking them head on, trying combos usually doesn't make much sense. Backpedal and spam Master Strikes. Keep in mind that when one of them runs at you quickly, he will instantly attack 90% of the time, so it's a good moment to tap Q
6. If you are dealing with a bandit/cuman camp, kill the dogs first if there are any, otherwise you may forget about rolling into a melee fight. I can tell that in my case nobody usually reacts when I take them down with arrows.

repaeR 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 5:12 
引用自 Dragonzord
5. If you insist on taking them head on, trying combos usually doesn't make much sense. Backpedal and spam Master Strikes. Keep in mind that when one of them runs at you quickly, he will instantly attack 90% of the time, so it's a good moment to tap Q

On this note too, happened to me all the time, master strike sometimes "does not" work. Like there is animation, but they not getting hit or something, it's kinda all over the place. It has alot to do with terrains, objects in the way I guess. Backpedaling can get you surrounded no matter what, for some reasons the camera eventually pulls you into circle, then middle when many start running up you. Turning around and running can be bad idea, you lose control yourself because camera starts jerking the screen then next thing, you chew up 2-3 combos, then you bleed red then die.
最後修改者:repaeR; 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 9:57
Tangobird 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 6:21 
I see, can't figure out how to use it so complains.
John Titor 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 9:54 
git gud son
Felicion 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 10:24 
ppl love the witcher 3 and i uninstall it after a couple of fights, cause its the worst fighting system i have ever seen. and kcd the ppl cry about the fighting system and i say "thats good stuff". opinion is opinion, if the devs change something it will not lead to less cry`s just to a other kind of cry. just deal with it.
MIKZ 2020 年 4 月 7 日 上午 12:27 
Yes. Combat is bad even if you look objectively at it and not from a fanboy POV.
Masterstrikes are basically your go-to. Combos are a mess on PC. It feels great if it works but nonetheless the combat system is dull and unintuitive.
R1105 2020 年 4 月 7 日 上午 1:10 
Yes, combo system on PC sucks. It is just impossible to do combos 99% of time. Enemies just block at leaset 1 of combo strikes or even worse they just make counter strike and kill you.
All you can do - wait when enemy will do a mistake then do a counter strike on him. Ridiculously easy win.
But all of this is nothing when massive battle is starting. It is look like just not finished part of game. What a shame.
Dragonzord 2020 年 4 月 7 日 上午 2:47 
引用自 Repaer
引用自 Dragonzord
5. If you insist on taking them head on, trying combos usually doesn't make much sense. Backpedal and spam Master Strikes. Keep in mind that when one of them runs at you quickly, he will instantly attack 90% of the time, so it's a good moment to tap Q

On this note too, happened to me all the time, master strike sometimes "does not" work. Like there is animation, but they not getting hit or something, it's kinda all over the place. It has alot to do with terrains, objects in the way I guess. Backpedaling can get you surrounded no matter what, for some reasons the camera eventually pulls you into circle, then middle when many start running up you. Turning around and running can be bad idea, you lose control yourself because camera starts jerking the screen then next thing, you chew up 2-3 combos, then you bleed red then die.

Yes, I know this very well. As well as the "pull" issue. Sometimes, when fighting multiple enemies, they just spin you for no reason. Usually the spin should occur when you run and enemy tries to stop you or when you get surrounded. But there are cases when all enemies are in front of you, at a reasonable distance and out of blue it looks like either Henry slips on something or enemies use telekinesis to get him off balance.
最後修改者:Dragonzord; 2020 年 4 月 7 日 上午 2:52
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張貼日期: 2020 年 4 月 6 日 下午 1:05
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