Why do I still lose reputation when killing people unseen?

[OZZO]

I tried a few times to wear the least conspicuous and visible clothes and kill/loot some of the guards at night. Nobody has seen or heard me, yet my reputation in that area is still decreased after the killing.

Did you encounter this? Do you know how to avoid reputation loss?

[DargonBlak]

@Philix - yes, after initial frustration, i am enjoying this game. I know i can win, and now i'm just optimizing my path to victory. For a new(ish) game from a new dev (i.e. not Bethesda/Zenimax), i really love the design and architecture - it shows true intelligence and promise.

[theo]

引用自 DargonBlak：

It is totally stupid of the game to give you Negative Reputation for something you did at night, after entering town in the dark - not being seem by ANYONE - and killing a few households of "innocent" citizens (although since they were human, i am sure they were sinners).

Nah, it's stupid to expect to get away with that

引用自 Yuz：

This is actually a very interesting feature. It means the skyrim script checks if the NPC is looking or not! It's more complex to achieve this instead of just checking by radius. Many games NPC has super powers and can see thru walls. Plus, that means in skyrim, the bucket is in fact a physical object for the NPC.

When someone enters my house and next day I notice stuff missing I don't need superpowers to figure it out. Giving 'realistic' line of sight to NPCs with amoeba intellect only creates an impression of lame game design to me. While 'detection radius' is a sensible simplification and it works (it's not in KCD tho so I don't know why you brought it up)

[Alexis]

I'll say it again. this is a TRUE RPG with depth.

[Yuz]

So far my ingame statistic says i stole almost half million groschens but i have no reputation lost... i stole almost every shop in the game plus all the monks of the monastery, including their habits while sleeping. Sometimes i wil even pickpocket a peasant.

It seems KCD has NPCs with amoeba intellect too.

引用自 Sasau Cat：

引用自 DargonBlak：

It is totally stupid of the game to give you Negative Reputation for something you did at night, after entering town in the dark - not being seem by ANYONE - and killing a few households of "innocent" citizens (although since they were human, i am sure they were sinners).

Nah, it's stupid to expect to get away with that

引用自 Yuz：

This is actually a very interesting feature. It means the skyrim script checks if the NPC is looking or not! It's more complex to achieve this instead of just checking by radius. Many games NPC has super powers and can see thru walls. Plus, that means in skyrim, the bucket is in fact a physical object for the NPC.

When someone enters my house and next day I notice stuff missing I don't need superpowers to figure it out. Giving 'realistic' line of sight to NPCs with amoeba intellect only creates an impression of lame game design to me. While 'detection radius' is a sensible simplification and it works (it's not in KCD tho so I don't know why you brought it up)

So far my ingame statistic says i stole almost half million groschens but i have no reputation lost... i stole almost every shop in the game plus all the monks of the monastery, including their habits while sleeping. Sometimes i wil even pickpocket a peasant.

It seems KCD has NPCs with "amoeba intellect" too. Sometimes guards can see me thru walls and if i am few more meters away they can't see me hiding in open view in plain sight at daylight.

[DargonBlak]

@Sasau_Cat - i don't consider it stupid to get away with what i described. Unseen by all should be unseen. If someone is the only one in the house, and i sneak in at night, unseen by all, and stab them in the face, then... while i might wake them up so they can see it coming... i'll certainly make sure they can't report anything. Medieval forensics were just not good enough to put the blame on someone they never met. Maybe it was a demon raised by a bunch of naked women dancing around the fire - or maybe a horse - blame them ! LOL - :)

However, in most cases, i am noticed skulking about the town - so, of course i *could* be blamed if something (or someone) goes missing - it's always that loner hanging around outside the 7-11... although, for true realism, it could also be the guy next door that seemed completely normal ("he seemed like such a nice person").

In truth, it's been a true pleasure watching the evolution these games over the years. I like the unique take on things for this game, and the consequences for some of my actions (many of which are irrelevant due to the Very linear main quest, but that's par for the course)

[Ēarendel]

I don't know. Maybe the suspicion resets after a while? People seem to treat you by the way you're dressed, by your actions and such. I've cleaned a few absurdly rich folks chests (robin hood so to speak) and people now no longer refer to me in Rattay as "noble knight" (due to full armor), but rather plainly say "What do you want" in an irritated tone.


It's not hard to assume that gossip would travel of you being a thief, gossip travelling from millers and vagabonds for whom you do steal quests, you getting insanely rich in a short amount of time, people missing expensive belongings at the same time or after you were last seen there, and you get a suspicious townfolk and guards who constantly need to search you.

[DargonBlak]

@Yuz - yes, stealing causes no Reputation loss - just Knockout or Stealth Kill. And the fact that you can get busted for "Stealth Kill" when you are unseen completely make "Stealth Kill" useless

Why would i EVER use a skill that will make folks hate me - cause vendor prices to go up - and make speech-based coercion (manipulation) even harder. Useless skill because of a poor design.

Early testers probably killed everyone, and the devs added that to slow down the massacre, thus my guess that Reputation loss from "Stealth Kill"s being put in as an afterthought (it doesn't match the careful balance of the rest of the game)

[Ēarendel]

引用自 DargonBlak：

@Yuz - yes, stealing causes no Reputation loss - just Knockout or Stealth Kill. And the fact that you can get busted for "Stealth Kill" when you are unseen completely make "Stealth Kill" useless

Why would i EVER use a skill that will make folks hate me - cause vendor prices to go up - and make speech-based coercion (manipulation) even harder. Useless skill because of a poor design.

Early testers probably killed everyone, and the devs added that to slow down the massacre, thus my guess that Reputation loss from "Stealth Kill"s being put in as an afterthought (it doesn't match the careful balance of the rest of the game)

You are right, I did find that fact sad, that knockout/stealth kill is more trouble than it's worth against civilians. You can't even knockout people when having to sneak past, you'll get the crime notice, so people will still hate you and might even try to arrest.

[theo]

引用自 Yuz：

It seems KCD has NPCs with "amoeba intellect" too. Sometimes guards can see me thru walls and if i am few more meters away they can't see me hiding in open view in plain sight at daylight.

Well if you find Skyrim AI interesting, and NPCs in KCD are just as smart as in Skyrim, there's nothing to complain about, cheers. Unless you have double standards


By the way, if we take Skyrim as an example - NPCs there will also eventually figure out if you have stolen from them and will send thugs to beat you (free loot + xp, essentially). Which is also kinda lame and weird. In what world people do that and then greet you with the usual HAIL DRAGONBORN and keep buying ♥♥♥♥ from you. Even more lame is the fact that Skyrim actually has some sort of rudimentary (in relation to previous TES games) NPC disposition system but utilizes it only to make NPCs randomly give stupid gifts to the player, and as a requirement for marriage.

So in both games NPCs will recognize player's bad behavior even if there wasn't any direct evidence. In that sense, the main difference is that KCD uses its reputation system and tries to create actual immersive consequences, while skyrim doesn't give a f, violates common sense and even rewards the player. I guess this is the real reason behind complaining

[theo]

引用自 DargonBlak：

@Sasau_Cat - i don't consider it stupid to get away with what i described. Unseen by all should be unseen.
Medieval forensics were just not good enough to put the blame on someone they never met. Maybe it was a demon raised by a bunch of naked women dancing around the fire - or maybe a horse - blame them ! LOL

Then the game should have ended at Neuhof raid quest. You haven't seen the raiders so you shouldn't be able to track them down - case closed, it must've been a demon horse.

[DargonBlak]

Neuhof raid was Not unseen - you've played the game right ?

[theo]

引用自 Sasau Cat：

You haven't seen the raiders

[DargonBlak]

@Sasau - your statement does not align with my statement (i use the word "unseen"), so either you misunderstand or are trying to antagonize me - and in either case i will do myself a favor and ignore you.

[theo]

Huh?

引用自 DargonBlak：

Medieval forensics were just not good enough to put the blame on someone they never met.

Delete the game right now. You're not allowed past Neuhof quest.

[DargonBlak]

So, i mentioned earlier that i slaughtered most of Skalitz without losing Reputation - it was still +100 Reputation in Skalitz when i started "Run"

Turns out that this updated when i reached Rattay - in Skaltiz (as a Town) i now have a -100 Reputation - at the beginning of "Awakening"

And, in Rattay (Town) - i had a Reputation with the Skalitz Refugees of +69, but the Skalitz Guards of only +16 (which caused them to search me constantly)...

So now I'm trying to figure out whether the Low Reputation with the soldiers is related to something i did locally, or was strictly an import from my illicit activities in Skalitz

And Jail time improved Skalitz Town and Rattay Soldier Reputation, but i went into Jail for 10 days just for punching a Guard in the Face :)