No Crossbows? Like... never?

[Vektor T]

Since I saw no image or even reference to crossbows anywhere, so I suppose they are not ingame. I also suppose that the choice for not adding crossbow is much more related to development limitations than any real historic reason, so here comes the questions: are the crossbows planned to be added to the game post-release either by patch or DLC?

[Brygun]

Regarding crossbow performance here is various related videos
Some tests show powerful longbows that still give a sense of how strong a crossbow has to be to equal them... and still fail to penetrate armor. Crossbows aren't auto penetrators of armor. That is contrary to some expectations expressed in this thread.

Bear in mind most people on a battlefield were not heavily armored so there were lots of work for archers and crossbows to do.


When watching tests try to find out what the armor is made of. Some put up nice looking shiny but actually flimsy or non-heated treated metal that is cheaper to afford. Actual heat trated armor is more expensive and much more protective.

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Shortest video showing the crossbow fail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwKNBB9Ww2E


>>>>
A good set from Skallagrim

A modern day tester showing crossbow fail vs breastplate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMT6hjwY8NQ

He also has a general chat video on crossbows with some more links
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk5vwHt1mzw

Skall's windlass crossbow tests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4sNcozOrkU
Mail penetrated but plate armor not tested

>>>>
Others:

A longbow, 130lb war bow strength, fails vs a metal breastplate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej3qjUzUzQg
Bear in mind a crossbow would have to be in the strong category to reach or exceed that power

Another warbow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCE40J93m5c

Various crossbows hitting and not really penetrating a breastplate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76mbOMFjlu0

A very powerful windlass crossbow but he never shoots at metal, 1,250 lb draw. He suggests working in pairs to operate. Which is not so viable for KCD singleplayer. Im not sure of the time period of the windlass crossbow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMoL_SBD6gw

Gambeson stopping large longbow penetration. Which is something worn under chainmail and breastplates so is also protecting fully armored people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CULmGfvYlso

A little on the difference between the types of mail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw3lcgIAwLk
Modern cheap to get butted mail isn't combat armor which is riveted. Each tiny link needing a hammer operation. A huge increase in the manpower needed. Though he refers to roman at time the general truth of riveted armor is effective.


Exposing a bad set of tests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poszGytTHf0

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Some points to raise:
- In period armor was known to be tested as crossbow proof. That is shot by a crossbow with no penetration.
- Deflection aka glancing was a big advantage of metal armor
- Most people on a battlefield didn't have metal armor like plate so there were tons of people the crossbow could affect
- Getting shot in joints would work but Im not sure how detailled the armor vs impact hit boxes are (not saying one way or the other, I just don't know)
- The power of a crossbow varies widely as does the loading methods. Some require extensive mechanical tools for high power. Anything you could one hand pull back, like in some games, is a weak crossbow.
- Few games have ever shown the proper lengthy animations for a crossbow.
- Training to use a crossbow is quick for crude shooters which was why many places used it
- England longbowmen were in a way a national product taking decades or generations to really develop. Most other countries didn't invest in that. England even had laws were you could go to jail for not practicing.
- Certain bolts and arrowheads were better against armor but it would be worth checking if any tests or reliable results were recorded. Example: bodkin point. It is important to check the time period of when those bolt/arrow types were in use vs the armor of that time vs the period of the game.

[Brygun]

Some long videos from scholagladiatoria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1WZLVZYBwQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMvz-z1SPLQ

[Vektor T]

While I appreciate the AWESOME information (I really do, lots of cool stuff there), the discussion is more about why crossbows aren't ingame since they was in the real world, not exactly how effective a crossbow could be.

Also I know crossbow are not properly show ingame, but what really is after all?

[Bastila Shan]

Expect them to be added later in mods or perhaps even officially

[Brygun]

To wit:

They add a lot more extra coding then a new type of bow with various questions like new animations, holding a bolt ready to fire and so on while the realistic in game performance isn;t much better than the bows that are already there.

Reasonable business decision little benefit for much cost don;'t make it or delay it.

[SpaceAce]

Originally posted by Vektor T:

Since I saw no image or even reference to crossbows anywhere, so I suppose they are not ingame. I also suppose that the choice for not adding crossbow is much more related to development limitations than any real historic reason, so here comes the questions: are the crossbows planned to be added to the game post-release either by patch or DLC?

They are mentioned in-game by Henry's dad, something about learning to swordfight but getting killed by a crossbow.

[Elysion]

It would be interesting to see them. They would probably be more of an npc weapon though, since crossbows are about as powerful as regular bows, just easier to use, and since hes a video game character henry+the player can master bow use in a few hours instead of years it takes in reality. Crossbow bandits though could become a hazard because you would have an excuse for them to be very accurate with them.

[NewGame+]

your dad talks about crossbows at the start of the game. so maybe in dlc.

[Angry Nord-Grunge Syndicate]

Originally posted by Mogli:

Of course crossbows were around.

What is more, the crossbow (in combination with close-combat-men carrying a pavese/Setztartsche) is probably one of the most iconic weapons of 15th century Bohemia. Also, bohemian mercenaries with all their experience from the Hussite wars were were much in demand in 15th cent. "Germany".

By the looks of it, I suppose the game is set in the early 15th cent.? (except for the modern/fantasy haircuts)

Set in 1403.

[Goatmanpig]

Didn't the Papacy ban the use of crossbows against Christians in Europe somewhere during this time period? That, "could," justify Warhorse not including them I guess but they'll probably still add them later on.

[JonWoo]

Originally posted by Angry Nord-Grunge Syndicate:

Originally posted by Mogli:

Of course crossbows were around.

What is more, the crossbow (in combination with close-combat-men carrying a pavese/Setztartsche) is probably one of the most iconic weapons of 15th century Bohemia. Also, bohemian mercenaries with all their experience from the Hussite wars were were much in demand in 15th cent. "Germany".

By the looks of it, I suppose the game is set in the early 15th cent.? (except for the modern/fantasy haircuts)

Set in 1403.

So the VERY early 15th century. With all of the other features I'm seeing in game that surprised me, I'm sure they wanted to add in crossbows but something prevented it. At least for the time being.

[Biggus_Dikkus]

they just out of stock at the moment, customs at the strike again

[Skrain]

Originally posted by tomatow:

If I remeber correctly the Crossbow was a largely French invention and wasn't really very well spread around (state secrets and whatnot) until about this time period and even then some countries just never really got that into em. Wouldn't be suprsiedd if that was the case for Bohemia

Actually with Bohemia being the Heart of the Holy Roman Empire, you would actually find crossbows to be extremely common. The Empire was known for its prolific use of the crossbow.

Originally posted by Goatmanpig:

Didn't the Papacy ban the use of crossbows against Christians in Europe somewhere during this time period? That, "could," justify Warhorse not including them I guess but they'll probably still add them later on.

The Crossbow was deemed "unchristian" but it was never banned or even really listened to. Not to mention the pope that declared it that was known at the time of declaring completely unpoliceable policies and as a result, he was largely ignored.

[Vektor T]

Originally posted by Goatmanpig:

Didn't the Papacy ban the use of crossbows against Christians in Europe somewhere during this time period? That, "could," justify Warhorse not including them I guess but they'll probably still add them later on.

The ban was in the XII century, something like 2 centuries before ths game time. Even so the ban never really catch up and the crossbow continued to grow in popularity even after the ban until the firearms took over by mid 1500s.

[Jack Greedy]

Who needs darn crossbows if you have sheeps anyway, eeeeeeeppp....
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1308245441