Kingdom Come: Deliverance

Kingdom Come: Deliverance

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Isha Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:16pm
What are the ranks of the nobles in game?
Sir Radzig was on the council of King Wenceslas IV according to the game dialogue, so he should be a count at least?
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
fenris Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:23pm 
Maybe a Baronette? English title though. Perhaps a Baron.
Azmael Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:32pm 
Codex: Racek (Radzig) Kobyla was a Bohemian yeoman, the Royal Hetman of Wenceslas IV and, between 1410 and 1415, Burgrave of Vyšehrad. In 1403 he resided at the castle in Silber Skalitz (Stříbrná Skalice) where he oversaw the mining of silver. The king was known for his generosity to lower nobles who received high titles for their loyalty. Racek Kobyla was apparently one of these and probably the king's friend.
Isha Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:35pm 
I don't have that entry in my codex.

So Radzig is just a yeoman? He's not even a nobleman.

What about the others? Hanush, Capon, and Divish?
Old Man Chimere Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:39pm 
Hanush is acting as a regent for Hans Capon and apparently Sir Divish is a Burgrave. So assuming from the size of all their estates Radzig and Divish owe fealty to Capon so he is most likely a duke.
Last edited by Old Man Chimere; Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:45pm
Isha Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:44pm 
So they're all just barons except Divish and Capon are nobles, maybe Hanush is noble too. Radzig is just a yeoman, which were the servant class to the nobles, and so Henry is also not a noble's bastard - which contradicts what Hans Capon says in the epilogue, but explains Radzigs deference to Capon in the cutscenes.
Azmael Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:47pm 
Originally posted by Jason:
I don't have that entry in my codex.

So Radzig is just a yeoman? He's not even a nobleman.
Well he's royal hetman, which according to wiki: literally meaning "captain" but functionally corresponding rather to today's "general". so maybe this military rank means something for them?

Few years after, he was "promoted" to the rank of burgrave so technically Henry is a noble's bastard :D
Last edited by Azmael; Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:55pm
Old Man Chimere Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:58pm 
Hans Capon must be a magrave, but of course Divish is the regent until all legal proceedings and a coronation from with appointment by Wenzel, which cannot occur due to his imprisonment.
Isha Mar 5, 2018 @ 4:09pm 
Originally posted by King of the Romans:
Hans Capon must be a magrave, but of course Divish is the regent until all legal proceedings and a coronation from with appointment by Wenzel, which cannot occur due to his imprisonment.

Right so Divish and Radzig are subject to Capon, or will be when he comes to his position, which is the impression I got from the game. And Radzig's shame is that he wasn't born noble but was given a noble title for reasons.
Old Man Chimere Mar 5, 2018 @ 4:19pm 
Rather unlike banates, just a lower noble who gained just a good connection to a prince, but they really only have their title and property until that high noble is gone therefore leaving someone to come and say that it would be illegitimate and basically force him to give up his hold. So as long as the king who gave it to the hauptman is still alive, then when the king is dead the claim is poo.
fenris Mar 5, 2018 @ 4:21pm 
Interesting info, thanks.
Old Man Chimere Mar 5, 2018 @ 4:29pm 
As well vicar and viceroy are synonomous titles, with vicars being papal representatives. And since Croatia was in a personal union since 1102 till around 1527, a ban or vicroy would be managing the affairs for the senior partner, so while Sigismund would spend time in Hungary, he would still have someone from one of the noble houses act in his place.
SUNSOAR Feb 3, 2020 @ 6:07am 
Radzic was originally a yoeman, meaning a lesser noble who holds a small landed estate.

Due to a close friendship he had with the king, who had a reputation of promoting lesser nobles, he was promoted to royal hetman, meaning he acted with the authority of the king in matters of war

He was in addition given the burgave ship of skalutz. The burgave title was at its peak of influence in the 1400s and was the equivalent rank of count or countess.

The title was hereditary, but could be given or taken at any time by the king

Sir davish was the burgrave of talmburg, and would later be named the burgrave of prague. The second highest possitions in the kingdom. Also know as the Prince of prague,

The title was not hereditary, but was given until death

Hanus is a Lord of laipa, the largest branch of one of the biggest and most influential dynasties in bohemia.

He actually has no real titles other than a small family estate and the regentship of Rattray, which is in itself a burgrave ship.

Hans capons father and by proxy himself was also a member of the Lord's of laipa, and held many estates including rattay,

His father also held high possitions In the royal court.

Hans capon would eventually forcably evict radzik and hanus from rattay, take his rightfull title and eventually essend into the upper eschalon of bohemian nobility.

Henry tho fictional has in fact already been legitimised, because ratzik has publicly acknowledge him as his offspring and Henry would only need one respectable Nobel to vouch for having heard it for that to be true.

It would be scandaless and a black mark against both his and radzics name, but nobility is by blood and birthright alone.

Radzic is a noble and Henry is his offspring, so Henry is noble, period.

As for him being a knight, Henry is a squire and a man at arms in the service of sir radzic.

A man at arms, is what we would consider a knight in modern terms. Meaning, Henry is in fact a night and a noble.

The real question is, will Henry ever inherit or be given a landed title. Bastards were looked down upon, and while a noble Bastard is still noble, he's also still a bastard.

Hope the historical context helps
Last edited by SUNSOAR; Feb 3, 2020 @ 6:16am
SUNSOAR Feb 3, 2020 @ 6:27am 
In the context of the game,

sir radzic is the highest military authority, while being of the least significant and prestigious noble house

Sir divish is the most senior and highest ranking nobleman, who's family control the largest estate

While Sir Hanus is a respected member of a prestigious family and regent over the biggest individual settlement in the region, that sir Hans is the rightful Govenor of.
Finkregh Apr 2, 2020 @ 6:07am 
OK, old but interesting topic. Since I have now time during the pandemic to play the game for the first time, I have also time to bring some light into the feudal system of Kingdom of Bohemia. First you have to understand that every each monarchy had its own special titles and in many cases they are not perfertly transafereble. For example in codex you can found that sir Ratzig was a yeoman but in reality he was a Zeman / Vladyka (or propably Lord), which could be transfered into the "gentry" title. Yeoman was rather kind of free man who worked himself on his own land. But that was not definitely case of sir Ratzig as he did not worked by himself. Doing such, would immediatelly transport you from Higher nobility to Lesser nobility. Finally sir Ratzig was between 1410 - 1415 burgrave of Vysegrad / Vyšehrad (in english "Highcastle") but that
was an office title, yet very prestigous. Vysegrad was anctient seat of very first rulers in Bohemia and if you wanted to siege Prague city, you had to take Prague castle and Vysegrad 1st. Many Czech famous people and heroes are buried there at the cemetary and in 1989 first stop of demonstrating people in velvet revolution was at Vysegrad. So very holy place even today.

Back to the ranks. In Kingdom of Bohemia, there are 3 types of ranks in kingdom: I. Sovereign (ruling) titles, II. Hereditary (vassal) titles, and III. Office (provincial) titles. Additionally there were some honorary (court) titles such as Highest waiter or court chaplain. For example King of Bohemia held traditionally waiter title from the Emperor of Holy Roman Empire.

I. Sovereign (ruling) titles
1) King of Bohemia - in 1212, Fridrich II., future Roman King and Emperor made through golden bulla this title hereditary, in 1356 golden bulla of Charles IV. further made this title privilegious as it made Bohemian king first among prince-electors that elected Roman King, prerequisite of Holy Roman Emperor, which had to be crowned by pope in Rome. The Bulla of Charles IV. was important constitution type of document. For example it gave numerous rights to cities in empire such as Frankfurt.
2) Markgrave of Moravia - usually this title was held also by king but not necessarly in every each case. Markgrave could be translated as a border count but in reality Markgraves were above the real counts but lower than Dukes.
3) Fürst of Silesia - sometimes called Duke as it was ruling title but fürst would be more accurate

II. Hereditary (vassal) titles
a) Higher nobility - members of the higher nobility had right to seat in a parliament which usually had session once a year. From the ancient times this assemly of elders established / throned the king (or duke). When ruling dynasty of Premyslid (Přemyslovci) died out
it was the Higher nobility who throned the new king (Jan of Lucemburg - grandfather of Wanceslaus IV.) but even the official heir had to be throned by nobility. In time this right was supressed. When a new ruler in ancient times was throned, in czech "nastolen", he was basically "put on the throne" by these elder nobles. But as there was no kind of chair-throne, they propably put him on a big stone called "stolec". That was their right. This class was very averse to accept "newcomers" from lower classes of society. Also office titles in the narrowest circle of kings council were given to the members of this class, which includes:
1) Fürst (Duke)
2) Count
3) Baron (its not a precise but there was an equivalent)
4) Lord (this could be potentially seen as a lesser nobility, therefore I think Sir, Ratzig was a member of this class)

b) Lesser nobility
1) Knight - unlike in other kingdoms, knights in Bohemia could be anointed only by a king and such a title was not a hereditary. However members of the family still used some privilages. Knights created many companies but these were usually illegal as Kings were forced by higher nobility to keep lesser nobility at tight. So as the King is missing, Henry cannot be a knight.
2) Vladyka / Zeman (Gentry) - most famous Zeman in KCD times was Jan Žižka (he has super huge horse statue in Prague, where he won a battle against crusaders, my hopes for KCD 2)

III. Office (provincial) titles
Highest office titles
1) Burgrave of Prague castle / Highest Burgrave - It was the highest office in kingdom as Prague castle was a seat of Bohemian kings and all other burgraves on kings estates were under the authority of this office. He was the chairman of the parliament, chairman of the highest court in bohemia and leader of the host (army). Divis of Talmberg was between 1400 and 1402 a Burgrave of Prague castle. You can see it on his armor that he was some important bastard.
2) Highest Hoffmeister - second highest position, chairman of the Kings council (in matters of law), chairman of the chamber court, until 1458 kings court was also in his administration - kind of production manager :D
3) Highest Marshal - leader of the Higher nobility in parliament. This office has been inherited in Laipa family and sir Hanus held this office between 1414-1415.
4) Highest Chamberlain - master of coin
5) Highest Judge
6) Highest Chancellor - not the most prestigous office but definatelly with highest political power. Chancellor was protector of kings big seal and therefore every decision that mattered had to be handled by the office of Highest Chancellor.
7) Court Judge
8) Burgrave of Karlstejn castle - prestigous title as it was big safe box for crown jewels, also big estate

Above mentioned were for Higher nobility and held most power. One of the most powerful members was also Prague Arcbishop. Council of the king was not only advisory body but real government and theirs obligation was basically to keep King at tight so he will not become a tyrant. By the time of Wanceslaus IV., many Lesser nobles got office titles that primarly were for the Higher nobility. There are many more including some provincial titles such as Hetman, Burgrave or Baillif.

Divis of Talmberg - in czech version of codex there is written that House of Talmerg are Lords but I could found info on czech wiki that family held title of counts. It makes perfect sence as their estate was not that big but he was able to repair his own castle and buy another one.

Hanus of Laipa - as I could not find any info on which title he held, Highest Marsal office was for the head of the familly and House of Laipa was by the time of Charles IV. and Wanceslaus IV. one of the (if not most) wealtiest in kingdom. As the Hanus at some point got the title of Marshall and also lived at the castle Spilberg in Brno, which was the kings castle and seat of Markgrave of Moravia, I would not expect from Hanus to be (at some point) anything else than Fürst.

Racek Kobyla - yes, in english codex there is a written that he was a yeoman but as I said its not accurate because Kobyla was member of nobility class. In czech codex, there is written that he is a lord. It makes sence from several point of views. He was Burgrave of Skalitz overseeing mining operations of silver. He was allowed to built his own castle at Veselí for which he needed a tons of groshen (mere Zeman / Vladyka would not be allowed to build a castle). Later he was given burgrave of Vysehrad which was prestigous office as mentioned above.

At last, sorry for my english, I've also made here lots of shortcuts from historical point of view and also remember that fedual system is built on many exceptions from general rules.
Last edited by Finkregh; Apr 3, 2020 @ 12:18am
Renan_PS Jul 27, 2020 @ 7:21pm 
The game map is litteraly 1:1 with real life (Yes, czhec countryside cities are really that small) , so judging the size of the map and the size of duchies of bohemia, I quickly came to the conclusion that they simply cannot be dukes, and they're also not all counts, the game map is a size equivalent to one or two counties, so either they're all barons anwsering to Sir Divish or Capon, or the game map is two counties and the counts are Sir Divish and Capon.
The last possibility is that the powers of the lords in the game extends beyond the game map, if this is true then I have no idea how to measure such thing.
If I'm wrong everything I learned playing CK2 was wrong.
Last edited by Renan_PS; Jul 27, 2020 @ 7:24pm
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Date Posted: Mar 5, 2018 @ 3:16pm
Posts: 17